I'm scared - tell me everything will be ok

[mooseAndSquirrel]

I'm not a newbie (more of an old fart, actually) and have added memory, put in hard drives, configured SCSI cards, etc. But now I'm going to spend the Christmas bonus building my next PC. I'm not going to say "money is no object", but I want a screamer within reason. So I have two questions for you gurus:

1) What cpu/mobo/memory config is best (see my usage below), or almost best. For example, it looks like a 1.9 G P4 is $200 less than a 2G, and I can't believe there's much difference. I've always had Intel CPU's, but I'm completely open. I guess the other high end to consider is an Athlon XP1900. From what I've read, DDR memory is second best only to RAMBUS, but here again, RAMBUS is wicked expensive.

2) Now the scary part: should I order a "combo" where the company ships me the CPU and heatsink already mounted, or should I do that myself? I've never before put in a CPU, and the glue to heatsink and pin connection instructions seem kind of intimidating. I'm not a complete klutz, but I'm also far from "handy".

Here's what I do with my home system: work in MS Office, program in MS Studio products, rip and MP3 encode hundreds of CD's. record TV input from a Win TV card, occassionally play games (Half-Life, Thief and the like), run some IP services like www and ftpd; I'll either run Win 2000 or XP (as an MSDN member, I have both in both the home and pro versions).

With my MP3 and VCD collection, I use tons of disk space, so I'm probably going to put in 120GB WD IDE drives @7200. I realize that SCSI would be faster, but 4X120GB drives plus a SCSI adapter would be way too much.

Put another way: I'm hoping to spend no more than $3500 for this system, I won't be reusing any parts (except the WinTV tuner, a NIC, wireless kb+mouse and maybe my SBLive), and want tons of disk, a 19" flat CRT, CDRW, DV-RW (maybe), lots of memory and a high-end (one down from the top) CPU; what trade-offs would you suggest? What kind of system would you put together with this kind of budget?

 

[Insane3D]

Here's my suggestion...

Motherboard:

Epox 8KHA+ (Via KT266A) - $105

CPU:

AMD Athlon XP 1800+ (1.53ghz) - $210

Video Card:

Gainward GF3 Ti200 "Golden Sample" - $179

Hard Drives:

2 x WD1000BB-SE 100GB (ATA100, 7200 RPM, 8mb Buffer) - $540

Memory:

3 X 256mb Crucial PC2100 (768mb) - $150

Case:

Antec SX840 with 400W PSU - $109

Monitor:

KDS AV-195TF 19" FD Trinitron - $300

CDRW:

Lite-On 24X - $93

DVD:

Lite-On 16X DVD - $57

CPU HSF:

Alpha PAL8045 w Fan - $47

Floppy:

Mitsumi Floppy - $9


Total: $1799


That's a pretty sweet top of the line system that will be faster than a P4 2ghz/Rambus Setup for only 1/2 of your budget.

 

[Snoop]

<< DDR memory is second best only to RAMBUS >>


Thats not entirely correct. In benchmarks conducted here at anadtech, the new Via DDR chipset for the P4 is competative with the Intel 850 rambus memory powered chipset, in fact it matches it in many tests. Their is no doubt DUAL channel rambus offers greater bandwidth than single channel DDR, but the added bandwidth of rambus is offset by the lower latency of DDR. And, with the Nforce chipset, which is the first dual channel DDR solution, now DDR bests rambus in both latency and bandwidth. Rant over.......

What insane3d posted looks like a great setup, i would consider the Soyo Dragon plus over the epox, because of its decent integrated sound and nic

Good Luck

 

[demontooth]

wow, for $3,500 you could build something to take over the world with nowadays

 

[jcmkk]

First of all, you should know that you have a wicked budget. That is a lot of cash. If you want a top of the line system, here is my picks.

Enermax Beige/White, 10-Bay, Enermax 330W P-4 PS, Server Tower Case
SOYO K7V DRAGON+ Plus VIA KT266A ATX MOTHERBOARD
MSI G3Ti500 PRO-TD (MSI-8853) GeForce3 Ti500 64MB DDR - RETAIL
AMD ATHLON XP 1900+/266 FSB PROCESSOR CPU - OEM
CRUCIAL MICRON 256MB 32x64 PC 2100 DDR RAM - OEM x2
WESTERN DIGITAL WD1200BB CAVIAR 120GB 7200RPM - OEM x4
VIEWSONIC PF790 19" (18" Viewable) 1600x1200 0.25dp PERFECT FLAT MONITOR - RETAIL
Pioneer DVR-A03 DVD-R/RW Writer
VOYETRA TURTLE BEACH SANTA CRUZ - OEM
Thermalright SK-6, ALL COPPER, Heatsink with Delta 60X60X25 38CFM fan

This system is really wicked. The total was $3,100 with shipping included. I configured it at NewEgg.com. I wish I had a $3500 budget, to me that is like an unlimited budget. I built all of my systems on a $1000 budgets, and they aren't slow either. You can give me a private message if you have any questions.

 

[novon]

I'd Get:

Soyo Dragon Plus Mobo
AMD Athlon XP 1900+ Retail
Radeon 8500DV\GeForce Ti500
Pioneer A03 DVD-RW
2 x WD1000BB-SE 100GB (ATA100, 7200 RPM, 8mb Buffer
3 X 256mb Crucial PC2100 (768mb) - $150
Antec 1043B With 340watt
KDS AV-195TF 19" FD Trinitron or Better yet - Planar 18" LCD
Sound Blaster Audigy
Logitech Z560 Sound System

 

[kjacobs]

Hi!

I'm gonna take the challenge and build me a new PC in the next few weeks (wish me luck!). I just ordered the components today (I'd say parts, but components makes 'em match their high price!)

Anyway on my current PC I upgraded the CPU myself with a lot of trepidation but it went fine. So if *I* can do it....!

Good luck to ya!

Since you asked , here's what I'm building (not as fancy as yours)

Cost is a tad under $800 shipped. (Shopped at Newegg, Provantage, Mwave, and Crucial.

RAM: 256 Crucial 2100 DDR
LiteOn 16/10/40 CD-RW
Epox EP-8KHA+
Soundblaster Live 5.1
Internal Zip drive
Floppy Drive
AMD XP 1600+ retail
Geforce MX200 32 MB
NIC card
WD 7200 40 MB
Antec SX635

I'll catch grief for the cheap video card but I'm trying to raise three kids and a dog!

Ken

 

[Remnant2]

Actually your budget will allow you to put together just about any kind of system you want.



<<
Here's what I do with my home system: work in MS Office, program in MS Studio products, rip and MP3 encode hundreds of CD's. record TV input from a Win TV card, occassionally play games (Half-Life, Thief and the like), run some IP services like www and ftpd; I'll either run Win 2000 or XP (as an MSDN member, I have both in both the home and pro versions).

With my MP3 and VCD collection, I use tons of disk space, so I'm probably going to put in 120GB WD IDE drives @7200. I realize that SCSI would be faster, but 4X120GB drives plus a SCSI adapter would be way too much.
>>



For the things you do I'd recommend the Athlon XP over the P4. Not only does it have a price advantage, but for that set of apps it is higher performing as well. (Some benchmarks: compile timing comparison
video/audio encoding comparison). The P4 1.9ghz is still a fast CPU, but between its higher price tag and the current premium of at least 2x on RDRAM modules vs DDR, the XP is a clear choice.

It's not particularily hard to put the CPU+heatsink on the motherboard, but if you're a bit skittish about it, it barely costs anything to have the shop do that + test it for you.

There's not much I could say to improve on Insane3D's system selection above this post, I just put together an upgrade system for myself using much the same parts and have been nothing but happy with the results.

 

[jcmkk]

I'll put your CPU in for ya if you let me borrow your pc for a week or two. J/K

 

[splice]

Yeah, Insane3D's config is pretty rockin'. You may want to go with a XP 1900+ and a 21" monitor.

 

[Becks2k]

3500?

Thats hard to spend that much but here...

$245 case : http://www.directron.com/yy0221bk.html w/ upgarde ps to Antec PP412X
$50 3 92mm enermax adjustable casefans
$200 dual xp mobo
$400 2 1800+s
$100 2 alpha pal8045s + 2 80mm enermax adjustable fans
$150 3 256MB dims
$200 gf3 ti200
$100 hercules gametheaterxp soundcard
$100 24x liteon burner
$50 for a dvd drive liteon maybe so they match
$10 floppy
$50 microsoft intelieye explorer 3.0 (everyone deserves this mouse)
$700 4 80gig seagate cudaIVs in raid5 for all yer crap
$100 1 40gig seagate cudaIV (os apps)
$400 klipsh 5.1 speakers
$650 some nice $21 inch monitor

_____

$3505

oops forgot a nice ide raid card w/ 128MBs cache $200

damnit now i'm over

 

[LukFilm]

Everything will be OK

 

[Becks2k]

oops just found a problem with that... no dual mobos have holes for the alphapal8045

replace that with 2 SK6's + non-delta fans

 

[Mookow]

Becks2K
Instead of the SK6's, why not go retail? Go with a Tyan Tiger and retail CPUs. Its cheaper, and generally quieter. Also, get a Antec 1240 case, a TB Santa Cruz instead of the GTXP, and maybe a slightly cheaper monitor, and you are now on budget with the RAID card included.

 

[tsnyder]

I just built a system for someone last week and I would say these were the bright spots of the system:

Soyo Dragon+ KT266A mobo w/ Ehternet, 6channel audio (excellent), on-board RAID. $146
Corsair PC2400 DDR 256MB $87 (wow the price almost doubled since last week)
2x60GB IBM 60GXP Hard drives $240

I can't say enough about the Soyo board, it's a very high quality and has a ton of features for the price. I ran the memory at 150FSB no problem, the chip was a 1.53 1800+ and it ran perfect @1.725. The only issue I had with the board was that when entering the BIOS for some reason the USB setting would be set back to "disabled" in the bios... you had to go and reselect "enabled". I was going to flash the BIOS, but that was the only issue I had with the board.

Can anyone tell me what the uses for a smart card reader, like the one that comes with the Soyo board are? I assume that you use them with digital cameras and other devices, but I have no experience with them so I would like to know.

Btw I bought everything at Newegg.com thanks Anandtech for mentioning them in the past.

 

[hovenas]

As suggested, you will have a great system with that budget. I'd try to put priority on the CRT, especially if you watch tv on the computer. Myself, I'd pick a HUGE (21-22 inches) CRT and cheat on the Athlon XP 1900, buying anyone of the cheaper AthlonXP's. I'd also skip the Gforce 3 titanium 500 and buy a cheaper card, you don't seem the xtreme gamer and thus the card wont have to be top of the line. Otherwise, I'd go with the Soyo board myself over Epox, that would save you the purchase of a good sound card and those can be expensive these days.
Insanes suggestion is very stable, I dream about a system like that. Go for CRT, I am trying to figure out which limb I could severe in an accident so that my insurance would provide me with the means of buying a Mitsubitsi 22"

 

[Insane3D]

The reason I mentioned the Epox is mainly that he said he would be re-using his NIC and SB Live!. Also, the Epox is a faster board and allows for much more overclocking so that would be an option for him. He probably wants the PC to last for awhile, so in a few years when it starts to be more like a "middle of the road" system, he will have some overhead available by cranking up his XP CPU a bit and maybe throwing in some faster PC2700 when it's more mainstream. Also the 6 PCI/1 AGP layout will allow for maximum expandability, while the Dragon only has 5 PCI slots and a useless CNR slot. I've used a few of those Dragon's and they are packed with features, but they don't overclock that well and they are a bit "quirky"...especially that long wait before the board posts...other than that it's a great board.


Also, don't sweat installing the HSF. HSF installation is very easy, and just takes patience. The Alpha HSF I mentioned is a great unit because it does not use a clip system, it uses screws to attach right through holes in the mainboard. For this reason, it's even safer to install because you are not putting extreme pressure on the core with a tight clip, and you have the security of knowing the HSF will never come off on it's own due to being securely attached with four scews. This is very similiar to how a P4 HSF attaches. Having a 80mm square HSF instead of a more common 60mm HSF, allows you to use a much quieter high CFM 80mm fan that will flow much more air @ lower RPM than the HS 60mm fans.

 

[Mookow]

About the video card... if you do go out and get a great monitor, dont skimp on the video card in respect to 2D. I heard the Leadtek GF3 Ti 500 is supposed to have 2D to supass Matrox. I dont know if I believe that, but that is what firing squad had to say about it. Anyway, there is no reason to handicap a beautiful monitor with a crappy video card.

 

[Supahfreak]

Whoa, $3500, I could buy a computer AND fix my POS car with that. Remind me to ask insane3D for advice next time I build my CPU. I spent like $700 on the system below after salvaging pretty much the same items as you. I also never did the HSF clip thingie before that but it was easy so no worries bout that, just get some ASII and read their website so you do it right. Good luck on your new system and I officially hate you for making my comp. look crappy

FreAk

 

[mooseAndSquirrel]

Wow, thanks everyone! What an awesome board this is - I wasn't expecting complete specs. And I know it's a lot of money. It's like custom bike frames that cost $4000 and up. Aside from pros, the only ones that can afford them are fat old farts with more money than sense. I'm sure it really ticks off the young'uns who could really ride these beasts to see some geezer waddling by. Think of me as the PC equivalent. But I'm changing jobs, cashing out a ton of vacation and I've outgrown my PIII 500.

But a rig for half my budget looks great and leaves room for other toys. So many, many thanks. I'll let you all know what I end up with.

Everyone got so excited about "build the dream rig" that I didn't see an answer to my other question. Should I install the CPU and heat sink in the mobo, have it done before it's shipped or have a local shop do it?

Thanks again!

Edit: OK, I see the posts where people are saying go for it on installing the CPU and heatsink. I guess that's my preference - then I'll feel like I've done everything I can.

One last question: is on board sound really comparable to a high end sound card? I listen to a lot of music on my home system, but I can't really say I'm doing fancy sound forge stuff. If it truly is comparable (and I will research other posts here), then that makes these motherboards insanely good values and makes me wonder if I should short creative's stock!

 

[Snoop]

<< One last question: is on board sound really comparable to a high end sound card? I listen to a lot of music on my home system, but I can't really say I'm doing fancy sound forge stuff. If it truly is comparable (and I will research other posts here), then that makes these motherboards insanely good values and makes me wonder if I should short creative's stock! >>


Some integrated sound setups are very close to being horrible, but the one on the soyo is actually fairly good.

 

[ST4RCUTTER]

M&J,

Just remember to do your homework before you put together your system and not after! Building an AMD system is no harder than building an Intel system, but there are specifics that you just can't ignore. Many people come here in frustration because they've cracked their AMD cores with their heatsink & fan (HSF). This is mainly due to the fact that AMD CPU's don't have a metal heatspreader on them and some people try mounting their HSF as it they do. Remnant2's idea about having a shop do it for you is a good one if you're a little squimish. Here's the AMD page for help on configuring your system. Note that just because something's not on their recommended list doesn't mean it's not compatible

Things will go a lot smoother too if you read the manuals for each piece of hardware before you set it up and not after. Know what you're putting together...this is especially true with the motherboard. Know how to setup your BIOS and you're halfway through the battle. Once the OS is installed, you will also need to install the VIA 4-in-1 drivers if you go with a VIA board like most people are recommending. Here is the current version and it's no harder to install than an Intel IDE bus driver. I know this stuff sounds more like common sense than advice, but they're usually one in the same...

If you're looking for good prices online with customer service that's hard to beat, look no further than Newegg.com

 

[FlippyBoy]

all the advice for hardware has been excellent so far, so i will try to answer your other questions. ST4RCUTTER was right on the money, i think. just take your time, read the directions, and use a little common sense. it may seem intimidating at first, but when you're all done, you'll wonder what it was you were so sccared about. if you run into any trouble at all, just give us a holler (or a post) and we'll answer any questions you may have.

just to add a little bit to what was said before, i think the alpha pal8045 would be your best bet. just make sure your mohterboard is compatible with it (has four holes and enough room around the socket). i would go with the radeon. same price as the ti200 and faster with more features. i think the vast majority of this board will tell you to go with amd, and i will heartily agree.

finally, i just want to add: everything will be ok

 

[Fandango]

With that kind of budget he can go SCSI.

 

[mooseAndSquirrel]

<< With that kind of budget he can go SCSI. >>



That's one area that I think I have to scrimp. Because I want so much disk space (I need 300GB), SCSI would kill me. A 36 GB Barracuda is $319. Then there's the cost of the adapter. I could blow my whole budget on the drive array!

This pricing and the way that IDE drives keep improving and USB gives nice expandability make me wonder if SCSI is going to die out. Here I am with a good budget to buy as close to top of the line as I can, and I'm going to give up SCSI on price.

I wonder if the performance would be worth it to put my boot drive and main applications on a single SCSI 10,000 rpm drive and all of my big data on separate IDEs? I have an adaptec SCSI card in my current system (I think it's a 2940AHA)