I'm saddened to learn PC gaming is on the way out

[ricleo2]

I like gaming on my PC. Have been since 1995 when I got hooked on Doom. Recent news like ID will not make a game for the PC anymore or Starcraft ll will not have lan ability has me convinced PC gaming is doomed. I also recently discovered how easy it is to download just about anything. Games, books, movies, applications,operating systems. Has it already or will piracy start hurting other industrys? There has got to be something that can be done about this. But what?
My common sense tells me that innovation and quality of anything that can be downloaded illegally and easily will be a thing of the past. Why work hard knowing what you create can be stolen by millions of people? I just don't get it.

 

[NeoV]

I think you are over-reacting.

SCII not having LAN doesn't mean anything - at a LAN with a decent internet connection you can still play the game just fine, and the game will still be huge. Same for the next Diablo game.

id software, quite frankly, hasn't been a big factor in PC gaming since Quake III.

I think you'll see more and more games use things like Battlenet and Steam to combat piracy - and it's impossible to blame them. While you can't say "game X was downloaded illegally X number of times, and X times their retail price is how much money they lost" - because only some percentage of X would have actually bought the game if it wasn't available from the warez crews - it's still lost income.

There are still a number of very high-quality PC games, and with companies like Blizzard, Valve, and others around, PC gaming isn't going away anytime soon.

 

[ricleo2]

Originally posted by: NeoV
I think you are over-reacting.

SCII not having LAN doesn't mean anything - at a LAN with a decent internet connection you can still play the game just fine, and the game will still be huge. Same for the next Diablo game.

id software, quite frankly, hasn't been a big factor in PC gaming since Quake III.

I think you'll see more and more games use things like Battlenet and Steam to combat piracy - and it's impossible to blame them. While you can't say "game X was downloaded illegally X number of times, and X times their retail price is how much money they lost" - because only some percentage of X would have actually bought the game if it wasn't available from the warez crews - it's still lost income.

There are still a number of very high-quality PC games, and with companies like Blizzard, Valve, and others around, PC gaming isn't going away anytime soon.

I see your points, but what about books or movies. Hell, I even saw some comic books for download! This just rattles me that so many people in this country feel they are entitled, to the detriment of the ones that follow the rules.

 

[vj8usa]

Piracy has been around for ages, and I think you're looking at this unrealistically. It isn't destroying industries to the extent you're implying; PC games still sell millions of units every year, as do things like books and operating systems. It's not like every person who pirates something would've bought it legally if he/she wasn't able to pirate it. Heck, some people end up buying games after pirating them. As for books/comic books, that's not the greatest example. Even if I could legally get a book at a cheaper price digitally, I'd pay more to have the hard copy in front of me. I hate reading at length on a computer screen.

 

[Rike]

PC gaming has supposedly been dying for as long as I have been playing computer games (1983? 84?). Computer gaming has certainly changed a great deal, both in terms of the games and of the business of games, but computer games will continue to be around as long as there is a demand for them. So far, there is a demand, piracy not withstanding.

 

[Sam25]

Originally posted by: vj8usa
Piracy has been around for ages, and I think you're looking at this unrealistically. It isn't destroying industries to the extent you're implying; PC games still sell millions of units every year, as do things like books and operating systems. It's not like every person who pirates something would've bought it legally if he/she wasn't able to pirate it. Heck, some people end up buying games after pirating them. As for books/comic books, that's not the greatest example. Even if I could legally get a book at a cheaper price digitally, I'd pay more to have the hard copy in front of me. I hate reading at length on a computer screen.

This.

 

[JaBro999]

Originally posted by: vj8usa
.... It's not like every person who pirates something would've bought it legally if he/she wasn't able to pirate it.

This fact alone makes it extremely difficult to determine the real impact of piracy for any type of product or market. If someone with an annual disposable income of a few hundred dollars pirates several thousand dollars (retail) worth of songs or software, can you really count that as thousands of dollars of lost income for the music or software industry? Even if money is not an issue, some people will not be willing to pay one cent for a product or service, but will still consider piracy. This does not make the choice right - it's just the way things are.

 

[California Roll]

Originally posted by: ricleo2

Originally posted by: NeoV
I think you are over-reacting.

SCII not having LAN doesn't mean anything - at a LAN with a decent internet connection you can still play the game just fine, and the game will still be huge. Same for the next Diablo game.

id software, quite frankly, hasn't been a big factor in PC gaming since Quake III.

I think you'll see more and more games use things like Battlenet and Steam to combat piracy - and it's impossible to blame them. While you can't say "game X was downloaded illegally X number of times, and X times their retail price is how much money they lost" - because only some percentage of X would have actually bought the game if it wasn't available from the warez crews - it's still lost income.

There are still a number of very high-quality PC games, and with companies like Blizzard, Valve, and others around, PC gaming isn't going away anytime soon.

I see your points, but what about books or movies. Hell, I even saw some comic books for download! This just rattles me that so many people in this country feel they are entitled, to the detriment of the ones that follow the rules.

Comic books aren't available digitally because people pirate them (I mean seriously, how do you pirate a comic book). They're going digital because it's easier for people to download them as opposed to going to a store to buy them. It's another revenue stream for the comic publishers.

 

[ricleo2]

To me, what is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. If you feel you have to explain yourself with rationalizations for your behavior you are wrong. There is no gray area. Think about what other areas of your life you rationalize with long dissertations. I have to believe deep down in us all we really know what is right and wrong. If we choose the path of what is wrong, we know it.
That is why I think piracy is an awful thing. It really, really helps no one. I see only bad things on the horizon if piracy is allowed to continue.

 

[Soundmanred]

That's great that you understand the difference between right and wrong, but it doesn't change the fact that piracy is not the downfall of PC gaming.

 

[flexy]

i play computer games since the mid 80s. I haven't seen a downfall at all. I think you think this because you "just discovered" you can download all this "for free"...but i can tell you such "free downloading" is as old as the internet itself. And even before there was an internet there was already a scene, except that it everything was done via snail mail.

 

[0roo0roo]

its been like a decade of crying about this.
it never ends.

as for id...they have become irrelevant, coasting on their brand. carmack doesn't give a sh*t and is more interested in playing spaceman. look at the number of games using the unreal engine, it dwarfs any using id's tech, almost no one bothers with id engines.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: ricleo2
To me, what is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. If you feel you have to explain yourself with rationalizations for your behavior you are wrong. There is no gray area. Think about what other areas of your life you rationalize with long dissertations. I have to believe deep down in us all we really know what is right and wrong. If we choose the path of what is wrong, we know it.
That is why I think piracy is an awful thing. It really, really helps no one. I see only bad things on the horizon if piracy is allowed to continue.

I downloaded Sins of a Solar Empire and ended up buying the game because I enjoyed it. Does that make me a dirty pirate, or a smart consumer who prefers to see if a product is worth the money before purchasing? What happened to game demos anyways? Seems like everybody used to do these, but not so much anymore unfortunately.

And as others have pointed out, software companies have been predicting doom and gloom for decades ("don't copy that floppy," for example).

 

[Soundmanred]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
its been like a decade of crying about this.
it never ends.

as for id...they have become irrelevant, coasting on their brand. Carmack doesn't give a sh*t and is more interested in playing spaceman. look at the number of games using the unreal engine, it dwarfs any using id's tech, almost no one bothers with id engines.

I hope you're not talking about the infamous ATOT poster "spaceman".
That would be a terrible role to play.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Soundmanred

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
its been like a decade of crying about this.
it never ends.

as for id...they have become irrelevant, coasting on their brand. Carmack doesn't give a sh*t and is more interested in playing spaceman. look at the number of games using the unreal engine, it dwarfs any using id's tech, almost no one bothers with id engines.

I hope you're not talking about the infamous ATOT poster "spaceman".
That would be a terrible role to play.

heh no, but its been clear for a while that carmacks heart is no longer in it anymore

 

[Nothinman]

To me, what is right is right and what is wrong is wrong.

Then you're looking at life through a very narrow set of goggles and I feel sorry for you.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
And as others have pointed out, software companies have been predicting doom and gloom for decades ("don't copy that floppy," for example).

Well except that for decades, casual piracy was a pain in the ass, time-consuming, and costly. e.g. ever copy a bunch of floppy disks or cassette tapes? For music/movies, there was the degradation of analog copies. Even if you didn't mind or notice it, just leaving the cassette in your car one too many times on a really hot day, and your 'acceptable' copy became intolerable. Or having your tape player eat the cassette. Good blank cassettes were $1.70+ a piece when buying in five or ten packs. Floppies were cheaper, but not free. All of these things created a certain 'PITA' factor that really made copies a second class citizen. This disparity became even worse with the advent of the CD (and later the DVD, laser disc doesn't count because it was largely a flop).

Now, those barriers are almost gone, for all practical purposes. Digital doesn't degrade. Broadband is becoming ubiquitous. Mass storage just gets cheaper. Portable devices can cheaply have more memory than the largest hard disk 10 years ago. One person who purchased the 'genuine' product can distribute bit-perfect copies to 100 people, each of whom can distribute bit-perfect to 100 people, and the last person will still have a bit-perfect copy. Couldn't be done passing a floppy disk or cassette tape hand-to-hand.

So it seems their predictions have in fact come true. i.e. at some point in the future, piracy will make things too inhospitable and risky to continue doing business. They needn't be exactly correct about the year its going to happen.

 

[vj8usa]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
So it seems their predictions have in fact come true.

No, they haven't.

Originally posted by: tcsenter
at some point in the future, piracy will make things too inhospitable and risky to continue doing business

That's just the same prediction again. Only time will tell if it'll ring true.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
And as others have pointed out, software companies have been predicting doom and gloom for decades ("don't copy that floppy," for example).

Well except that for decades, casual piracy was a pain in the ass, time-consuming, and costly. e.g. ever copy a bunch of floppy disks or cassette tapes? For music/movies, there was the degradation of analog copies. Even if you didn't mind or notice it, just leaving the cassette in your car one too many times on a really hot day, and your 'acceptable' copy became intolerable. Or having your tape player eat the cassette. Good blank cassettes were $1.70+ a piece when buying in five or ten packs. Floppies were cheaper, but not free. All of these things created a certain 'PITA' factor that really made copies a second class citizen. This disparity became even worse with the advent of the CD (and later the DVD, laser disc doesn't count because it was largely a flop).

Now, those barriers are almost gone, for all practical purposes. Digital doesn't degrade. Broadband is becoming ubiquitous. Mass storage just gets cheaper. Portable devices can cheaply have more memory than the largest hard disk 10 years ago. One person who purchased the 'genuine' product can distribute bit-perfect copies to 100 people, each of whom can distribute bit-perfect to 100 people, and the last person will still have a bit-perfect copy. Couldn't be done passing a floppy disk or cassette tape hand-to-hand.

So it seems their predictions have in fact come true. i.e. at some point in the future, piracy will make things too inhospitable and risky to continue doing business. They needn't be exactly correct about the year its going to happen.

I can't really speak for video games and software, but I know piracy hasn't hurt the music industry as much as they would like you to believe. CD sales are down, but they're seeing enormous (like double-digit) growth in digital track downloads, ringtones, etc. Piracy obviously cuts into their bottom line, but they are at absolutely no risk of not being able to continue producing music, profits are up and have been going up for years. Instead of whining about lower CD sales and clinging to old technology they need to be looking for new, innovative sources of revenue.

Also it wasn't that hard to copy that floppy, that's how I got Doom from a friend.

 

[episodic]

Sheez they've been saying this since I had a commodore 64 and the 1st nintendo came out.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
All of these things created a certain 'PITA' factor that really made copies a second class citizen. This disparity became even worse with the advent of the CD (and later the DVD, laser disc doesn't count because it was largely a flop).

Now, those barriers are almost gone, for all practical purposes.

I think that is the reason piracy is such a problem now. Yes we could copy cassettes and they even started making stereos with high speed dubbing but it was always a copy of a copy and someone had to physically be there to do it. If you wanted a pirated copy you had to either make it yourself from a copy you bought or go out and buy it.

Now you can do piracy of anything without ever leaving home with next to zero risk.


I have said it before many times. The problem and solution with piracy is a moral one. Until people realize that downloading something that was not purchased, even if they had no intention of purchasing it, is wrong, things will only get worse and DRM will increase. Downloading anything without permission shows a lack of respect for the content creator. It is no different than taking a picture of a painting and copying it because you didn't like the price it was selling for.

I am really concerned that we will never see a lot of great movies, books, music or games simply because the people that would have done them decided to go into another line of work.

 

[homercles337]

Actually outlandish DRM is the main reason, if PC gaming is dying at all. I just took back GTA IV because i wasnt going to jump through the hoops of install and usage. Steam does well and they often distribute with no problems--that is until someone wants to reinstall a game. Until distributors quit treating customers like thieves a decline in sales is eminent.

 

[fleabag]

Originally posted by: homercles337
Actually outlandish DRM is the main reason, if PC gaming is dying at all. I just took back GTA IV because i wasnt going to jump through the hoops of install and usage. Steam does well and they often distribute with no problems--that is until someone wants to reinstall a game. Until distributors quit treating customers like thieves a decline in sales is eminent.

This and the fact that Starcraft II doesn't come with LAN play is the reason I won't be purchasing it which is unfortunate because I absolutely LOVE Starcraft. I remember the days of playing the Starcraft Demo, wanting to play the full version so badly and when I did get the full version, it was a great big relief to have it. I've been a big fan of all of Blizzard's more recent games (1994+) with the exception of WoW but what they're doing the Starcraft is just horrible and for that, I really can't see myself buying it now.

 

[vj8usa]

Originally posted by: homercles337
Steam does well and they often distribute with no problems--that is until someone wants to reinstall a game.

What do you mean? All you have to do to reinstall a Steam game is log in, and it'll download the game files.

 

[sourceninja]

For me it was more that consoles have reached an acceptable level of quality. I used to play PC games because they looked the best. but with 1080p TV's and the latest gen video game systems, I am satisfied. I can buy these games used for a discount (can't do that with PC games much anymore) and I can sell the games when i am done.

I miss the keyboard and mouse, but I do just fine.