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I'm interested in taking creatine for weight gain - how much to take and what kind to get?

P

phatj

Golden Member
I would like to purchase this, it seems like a good deal on creatine (correct me if I am wrong):
The Creatine I am looking at

First of all, how much does one take per day for the "loading"phase? And then how much after that?

I eat tons and I lift, but I cannot get the gains that I want (I am 6'1" and only ~153 lbs, eww!). Any advice would be appreciated. That link I provided seems to be a good deal on creatine (but I am new to this, so I am not sure). Thanks!
 
your better off getting a decent book on body building and just work out the correct way. it doesn't make sense that you'd not gain atleast a little if u were doing it correctly.
 
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
your better off getting a decent book on body building and just work out the correct way. it doesn't make sense that you'd not gain atleast a little if u were doing it correctly.
Click to expand...

 
Originally posted by: phatj
I would like to purchase this, it seems like a good deal on creatine (correct me if I am wrong):
The Creatine I am looking at

First of all, how much does one take per day for the "loading"phase? And then how much after that?

I eat tons and I lift, but I cannot get the gains that I want (I am 6'1" and only ~153 lbs, eww!). Any advice would be appreciated. That link I provided seems to be a good deal on creatine (but I am new to this, so I am not sure). Thanks!
Click to expand...

that's a decent price per gram, but that's also a lot of creatine if you've never taken it.
usually you take 5 grams 3-5 times/day for a couple of weeks, then 5 grams/day
subsequently.

it doesn't put on muscle. it does enable most people to do more reps/sets.

since it can cause muscle cramps, dehydration, horrible intestinal bloating AND doesn't work for some people
(including my son, who deadlifts nearly 600 lbs, & his coach, who squatted over 800 lbs),
buying 500 grams from a local drug/department store first might be a good idea.

it's impossible to answer your question about your lack of growth,
since you haven't posted your workout details, diet, or anything else.

try posting here.
also, i get good prices & excellent service from this company.
 
I've heard the 'loading phase' was crap and was basically just a way for them to sell you more of it.

Personally, I'd just stay away from that stuff unless I was a serious body builder.
 
Creatine is probably not for you... yet. You need to eat and work out smarter. You've not even begun to reach any real barrior, except understandable ignorance.

How about you detail your lifting routine for us? And your diet, too.
 
call me a geek, but isn't HPCL supposed to be HPLC? (High Pressure Liquid Chromatography)
kinda looks shady, but i guess that's what you get on ebay...
i'd definitely go to the drug store instead or something
 
I have a healthy diet and consume well over 2,500 carbs per day (I eat ~4 meals per day). I've been working out for the last 6 months or so, and although I have made progress, I am not getting the gains that I desire. I have only gained like 6 lbs. This is why I will be trying creatine and drinking a buttload of water. My routine (it is a routine I found on bodybuilding.com a while ago):
Monday:
Bench press (free weights, barbell) 3 sets 6 reps
Incline press (free weights, barbell) 2 sets 10 reps
Barbell curls (shoulder wide grip) 3 sets 6 reps
Dumbbell curls (seated) 2 sets 10 reps
Tues:
Squats (free weights) 3 sets 6 reps
Leg press (machine) 2 sets 10 reps
Hack squats (machine) 1 set 20 reps
Wed:
Off
Thurs:
Behind the neck press (free weights, barbell) 3 sets 6 reps
Standing upright rows (free weights, EZ-barbell) 2 sets 10 reps
Front overhead press (machine) 1 set 20 reps
Lying triceps press (free weights, EZ-barbell) 3 sets 6 reps
Overhead triceps press (free weights, EZ-barbell) 2 sets 10 reps
Triceps pushdown (machine, cable) 1 set 20 reps
Fri:
Front latpulldown (machine, shoulder wide grip) 3 sets 6 reps
Seated cable rows (machine, narrow grip) 2 sets 10 reps
Dumbbell rows 1 set 20 reps
Standing calf raises (machine) 3 sets 6 reps
Seated calf raises (machine) 2 sets 10 reps
Bend-over calf raises (machine) 1 set 20 reps
 
Additionally, when taking Creatine, should one work out every day, or is it better to take 2-3 days off per week? (I am assuming it isn't good to work out every day when on creatine)
 
Originally posted by: phatj
Additionally, when taking Creatine, should one work out every day, or is it better to take 2-3 days off per week? (I am assuming it isn't good to work out every day when on creatine)
Click to expand...

depending on if work to your max, then u should take then next day off(at the very least), but if u are not doing your max then u can lift more often. make sure u take protein after u work out and creatine before and maybe even after you work out.

NO2, u can also try NO2 out, go to the site it gives u alot of info, it sends blood instead of water to you muscles, so your muscle get more nutrients and recover faster.

Dogg
 
Generally 20g / day during loading (1 week), 5-10g a day for maintenance (5 weeks), then 2 weeks off in a 2 month period. 10g a day maintenance is debatable (5 might be enough) but it's relatively inexpensive, so personally I figure why not? If you want to do 5g/day for maintenance, that should be fine. You might want to break it up; some people report nausea from as little as 10g at a time, or even 5. I have an iron stomach and have had 20g at once with no problems though. Even if you don't lift a finger, the water retention will put 5 pounds on you, mostly in your muscle tissue, which will help appearance. It simply increases your endurance & short-term muscle strength, allowing for better workouts, which in turn build more muscle. Nothing unhealthy about it.

As far as lifting, make sure to use proper form and pick a weight that you can do 6-8 reps of before your muscles simply can't do another rep, and don't hurry the movement either. Bowflex and such machines are very weak in comparison to freeweights, which is the only equipment I'll touch, personally 🙂 You generally want to do at least 3-4 sets of each exercise, taking off weight on subsequent sets if necessary to stay in the 6-8 rep range (give or take; anything from 4-10 should build strength & mass). I get good results doing 8 sets but peoples' bodies, schedules, and motivation vary, so experiment & see what works for you.

Edit: just saw your last question; 1-2x per week for each muscle group is the norm; more than that and you're risking overtraining. Some elite bodybuilders do each muscle 3x a week. One grueling workout for each muscle group per week has worked out well for me; chest (bench & flyes), triceps (pushdowns or french press), and shoulders (military press) on Mondays, back (rows, pulldowns, deadlifts & shrugs) and curls on Wednesdays, and legs (squats, extensions, and leg-curls) on Fridays. I do 3 sets of everything except benches & curls, 8 each, and leg extensions, 5-6. The mindset I try to keep is to give it my all; I don't stop at a set, predetermined number of reps; I stop when I'm snarling and simply can't do another rep. I have trouble getting up the steps after my Friday workouts 😉
 
Originally posted by: phatj
I have a healthy diet and consume well over 2,500 carbs per day (I eat ~4 meals per day). I've been working out for the last 6 months or so, and although I have made progress, I am not getting the gains that I desire. I have only gained like 6 lbs. This is why I will be trying creatine and drinking a buttload of water. My routine (it is a routine I found on bodybuilding.com a while ago):
Monday:
Bench press (free weights, barbell) 3 sets 6 reps
Incline press (free weights, barbell) 2 sets 10 reps
Barbell curls (shoulder wide grip) 3 sets 6 reps
Dumbbell curls (seated) 2 sets 10 reps
Tues:
Squats (free weights) 3 sets 6 reps
Leg press (machine) 2 sets 10 reps
Hack squats (machine) 1 set 20 reps
Wed:
Off
Thurs:
Behind the neck press (free weights, barbell) 3 sets 6 reps
Standing upright rows (free weights, EZ-barbell) 2 sets 10 reps
Front overhead press (machine) 1 set 20 reps
Lying triceps press (free weights, EZ-barbell) 3 sets 6 reps
Overhead triceps press (free weights, EZ-barbell) 2 sets 10 reps
Triceps pushdown (machine, cable) 1 set 20 reps
Fri:
Front latpulldown (machine, shoulder wide grip) 3 sets 6 reps
Seated cable rows (machine, narrow grip) 2 sets 10 reps
Dumbbell rows 1 set 20 reps
Standing calf raises (machine) 3 sets 6 reps
Seated calf raises (machine) 2 sets 10 reps
Bend-over calf raises (machine) 1 set 20 reps
Click to expand...

Your routine isn't bad, but what is with the high rep sets? The highest rep sets I do are 15 reps for calves. I keep most everything except warmup sets between 6 and 10 reps.

As for your diet, why are you counting carbs, or did you mean calories? 2500 calories is NOTHING. That's barely enough to maintain the average hard gainer's weight. I take in 4000+ calories a day in 6 meals while bulking... and I'm not a hard gainer anymore like I was in my teens and 20s.

Creatine doesn't add signifigant bulk. Basically, it gives me that extra little bit to fire off that extra rep and get those fibers I wouldn't have got before. The water gain in the muscles is only in the range of 5-8 lbs. Don't get me wrong, it helps, but it is not the magic bullet for your problem. I'm not suggesting you don't go on it, but I AM suggesting you don't rely on it to cure your hard gain problems. And don;t throw a party when you gain 5-8 lbs after starting on creatine. You'll piss most of that away as soon as you cycle off of it.

Finally, you do know that for creatine to be effective, you have to spike your insulin, right? This requires 300 calories or so of good quality dextrose per serving. Stay away from juices as a mixer. Not only do they not have enough sugars to boost your insulin properly, but most of them have citric acid in them that render the creatine worthless.

Mix in 10 grams of creatine and 300 calories of dextrose in 12 oz or so of water and shake well. I suggest you load for 5-7 days with two doses 12 hours apart, then maintain for 8 weeks with one dose after lifting or upon waking up on off days. Then take two weeks off. Repeat.

You can find quality dextrose here:

http://www.dpsnutrition.net/product_information.asp?number=AS127&back=yes&dept=1018&last=1018
 
Amused: Yes, I meant 2,500 calories per day. THat is like the bare minimum I consume (when I have really busy days) - it is usually 3k-4k.

I had no idea that insulin levels were a concern when taking creatine - how many of you all have supplemented your creatine regimine with dextrose? I will probably be using protein powder in conjunction with the creatine (potein is whey). I kind of don't want to be taking 3 supplements at once, 2 is quite enough for me. But, if it is a common cause-for-concern, I suppose adding a little dextrose wouldn't hurt. Can anyone back up the insulin/dextrose claims? I haven't read about it in any creatine articles.
 
Originally posted by: phatj
Amused: Yes, I meant 2,500 calories per day. THat is like the bare minimum I consume (when I have really busy days) - it is usually 3k-4k.



I had no idea that insulin levels were a concern when taking creatine - how many of you all have supplemented your creatine regimine with dextrose? I will probably be using protein powder in conjunction with the creatine (potein is whey). I kind of don't want to be taking 3 supplements at once, 2 is quite enough for me. But, if it is a common cause-for-concern, I suppose adding a little dextrose wouldn't hurt. Can anyone back up the insulin/dextrose claims? I haven't read about it in any creatine articles.
Click to expand...

Look deeper into just about any article discussing creatine. For creatine to be absorbed properly by the muscles, one must have a signifigant insulin spike. The way this used to be done is taking it with a large glass of grape juice (the only sweet juice you can buy without citric acid). Many still do this. But that's not as effective as dextrose is. Dextrose isn't a suppliment, it's simply a sweetener. It's also better than simple table sugar because it spikes your insulin more and faster with less.

You can make life easier, but more expensive, by buying a pre-mixed creatine/dextrose mix like Cell-Tech. GNC even has a pre-mixed creatine/dextrose formula. The problem is it costs twice as much as mixing it yourself.

If you're a hard gainer, 4000 calories should be your bare minimum on busy days. Never allow yourself to go more than three hours without food. Have some slow absorbing protein before bed as well, so your body has something to feed on while you sleep (atkins bars are great for this). A good nutritional bar like Detour Bars can help you achive your calorie goal on your busy days.

The key to hard gaining is food. Not suppliments or style of training. Your main focus needs to be on calorie intake. Eat big to get big. If you don't eat big, all the training in the world will be fruitless.

The lucky part here is, cutting (going on a fat loss cycle) will be a breeze for you. 🙂
 
Cell-Tech tastes great and worked really well when i used to take it, it's pretty expensive but I've got a place online that sells it for about 20-30 less than most places. pm me for link if you want it.
 
Originally posted by: Bolvangar
Cell-Tech tastes great and worked really well when i used to take it, it's pretty expensive but I've got a place online that sells it for about 20-30 less than most places. pm me for link if you want it.
Click to expand...

I know where to get it cheap. The problem is, even at it's cheapest it's still twice as much as buying pure creatine and pure dextrose and mixing it yourself.

But, like I said, if you want the simple way out, Cell-Tech does work great.
 
phatj - how old are you? I'm in my mid-twenties and had the same problem as you - really crappy gains. We're built similarly - I'm 6'1" and when I started lifting seriously was 145 lbs. I was very thin and my metabolism/genetics will probably keep me that way for my whole life. This doesn't mean that you can't build muscle - it's just harder. I started making my big gains after I changed my workout and eating habits. I only lift three days a week (Tu,TH,Sa) and do each muscle group only once a week. I do low reps and push it really hard - usually only 4-6 reps per set. Do your reps SLOWLY and concentrate on good form - really squeeze that muscle that you're trying to work. I also learned that I have to take in a TON of calories and take a TON of protein. I don't even count my calories usually - just eat all that I can. I never take in less than 5-6k a day. It's about 9 months now since I started my routine and I've gained nearly 20 pounds and look great.

Just some ideas from someone that was once in your shoes. Forget supplements except for protein.

 
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