MercenaryForHire
Lifer
I prefer 3D cards that render above the speed of "Etch-A-Sketch" 😉
- M4H
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I'm disappointed with Ubuntu
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I prefer 3D cards that render above the speed of "Etch-A-Sketch" 😉
- M4H
MercenaryForHire
Lifer
Here's my number, call me when they create something worth installing. 😉
- M4H
MercenaryForHire
Lifer
If I can run it from a liveCD, I'll do it when I get home and they can get some data on a 6600GT. 🙂
- M4H
I play games quite well on my Intel 945g motherboard.
Newer ones include hardware transforms and lighting, hardware shading, and other such things. There is teething issues with some G965 motherboards with their Linux support, but I still want one.
The Mesa libs are gradually being updated. GSLS compiler and other shading language features, effective memory management, OpenGL 2.0/2.1 support, etc etc. Mesa 7.0 is around the corner..
I don't know much about OpenGL, but the 3D desktop is driving the technology forward on the Linux front.
Each time I upgrade to CVS I get a nice performance boost for video games. There are quite a few FPS shooters that are fun.. Tremulous, Warsow, Alien Arena, and others. The onboard intel is just fine driving those. Nexuiz is a bit iffy, but most of it works fine.
And the 3D desktop works fine. I have no issues with Compiz or Beryl when I feel like running those.
Newer ones include hardware transforms and lighting, hardware shading, and other such things. There is teething issues with some G965 motherboards with their Linux support, but I still want one.
The Mesa libs are gradually being updated. GSLS compiler and other shading language features, effective memory management, OpenGL 2.0/2.1 support, etc etc. Mesa 7.0 is around the corner..
I don't know much about OpenGL, but the 3D desktop is driving the technology forward on the Linux front.
Each time I upgrade to CVS I get a nice performance boost for video games. There are quite a few FPS shooters that are fun.. Tremulous, Warsow, Alien Arena, and others. The onboard intel is just fine driving those. Nexuiz is a bit iffy, but most of it works fine.
And the 3D desktop works fine. I have no issues with Compiz or Beryl when I feel like running those.
I just installed 7.04 a couple days ago, worked very well from the start.
I did bork my xorg.conf when trying to enabe open GL, had to reinstall to get a working GUI again. Manual editing of the xorg.conf is NOT for beginners.....
then I found the Envy script to install and configure X with the Nvidia or ATI drivers. Worked flawlessly, all 3D and open GL funtions were enabled.
You can find the script HERE.
I have been running Vista on this machine since the first beta and till a few days ago with the final release, IMHO Vista is not ready for prime time, prob never will be.
remember when you first started using Windows and you didn't know/understand how things worked....some stuff took a little work to get it right, same thing with Linux, you have to use it a bit to learn it.
I did bork my xorg.conf when trying to enabe open GL, had to reinstall to get a working GUI again. Manual editing of the xorg.conf is NOT for beginners.....
then I found the Envy script to install and configure X with the Nvidia or ATI drivers. Worked flawlessly, all 3D and open GL funtions were enabled.
You can find the script HERE.
I have been running Vista on this machine since the first beta and till a few days ago with the final release, IMHO Vista is not ready for prime time, prob never will be.
remember when you first started using Windows and you didn't know/understand how things worked....some stuff took a little work to get it right, same thing with Linux, you have to use it a bit to learn it.
Aren't propriatory drivers fun?
So what are you guys meaning 'crashes on start-up'?
Do you mean it crashes at grub (which it doesn't sound like).
Or does it crash trying to get to the Splash screen with the Ubuntu logo and all that, the boot up portion?
Or does it crash when trying to start up X; crash trying to get to the part were you log in?
During the grub loading screen you can modify the boot up parameters. When the time comes to the kernel selection screen you can hit 'e' for edit.
Then you can select which line you'd like to edit.
Once your finished editing the line then you can boot it by hitting the 'b' button.
If the screen is crashing with the splash screen try adding vga=normal to the kernel line. See if that helps. If it does then don't forget to manually add it to your /boot/grub/menu.lst
If it crashes when trying to start X then add 'single' to the end of the kernel arguments. (no parentises)
Then when it gets to the single user command line then change /etc/X11/xorg.conf. Find the section for your video card configuration and change:
driver "nvidia"
to
driver "nv"
or
driver "vesa"
So what are you guys meaning 'crashes on start-up'?
Do you mean it crashes at grub (which it doesn't sound like).
Or does it crash trying to get to the Splash screen with the Ubuntu logo and all that, the boot up portion?
Or does it crash when trying to start up X; crash trying to get to the part were you log in?
During the grub loading screen you can modify the boot up parameters. When the time comes to the kernel selection screen you can hit 'e' for edit.
Then you can select which line you'd like to edit.
Once your finished editing the line then you can boot it by hitting the 'b' button.
If the screen is crashing with the splash screen try adding vga=normal to the kernel line. See if that helps. If it does then don't forget to manually add it to your /boot/grub/menu.lst
If it crashes when trying to start X then add 'single' to the end of the kernel arguments. (no parentises)
Then when it gets to the single user command line then change /etc/X11/xorg.conf. Find the section for your video card configuration and change:
driver "nvidia"
to
driver "nv"
or
driver "vesa"
Goosemaster
Lifer
drag?
ever tried setting up a linux lappy to WiFi running PEAP + WEP without certificate validation, oh, and with an unsupported chipset?
good times:frown:
ever tried setting up a linux lappy to WiFi running PEAP + WEP without certificate validation, oh, and with an unsupported chipset?
good times:frown:
Conservationist
Junior Member
If you have any kind of hardware outside the mainstream, Google first to see if anyone else has gotten it working. I've had good luck installing FreeBSD on recent hardware, so I assume Linux has caught up as well. Nothing else is going to have the broad driver base that Windows XP does however.
Goosemaster
Lifer
Seeing as how WEP can be broken so fast, they would still have to get around AD, but I will concede that this setup sucks ass.
Ubuntu...err...NetworkManager actually supported WPA2 Enterprise (PEAP + WPA2 iirc) quite well🙂
If you can read the error message on the screen, you might get some useful information from google. I had a kernel panicking issue (nice message, right?) with my P4MBMS/Celeron (cheapest mobo/cpu money can buy) when I tried Ubuntu 6.10.I found this from fedora forum and it worked just fine even with Ubuntu. I had to use these extra parameters in the grub command "ACPI=force irqpoll" also I had to edit /boot/grub/menu.lst to append this to existing lines. The issue has been fixed in 7.04. (But I am back to my Windows XP because I could not get any of the media center programs to work in Linux to my satisfaction).
Linux isn't "quite there" yet for me either.
I used ubuntu 6 from since it was released until 7 just came out as my only OS. Since all I really do is browse the web and code I didn't really care about 3d support, all I wanted was something that performed those two basic functions.
All of my problems were hardware related issues as well. The first time I installed it and it went into power saving mode it erased the bios on my motherboard (and I don't just mean cleared the settings), fortunately it had the ability to restore from a flash drive or my mb would be dead.
Still, I boldly tried it again, and there is too much editing of /etc/X11/xorg.conf which can be rather daunting when you are unfamiliar with the system. There seems to be no standard way of autodetecting things and the documentation is hazy and incomplete and contains phrases like "maybe nobody really knows how this section works"
After slogging through and figuring out the basics I finally get my wacom to work but it's mouse wheel is reversed... somehow this just broke in version 6 and I found a way of reversing it in runtime, but it would reset when I rebooted. I lived like this for a few months until I found the right text files to modify and just guessed at the format because no documentation existed.
For 6 months it ran with no problems. I never tried power saving during that time 🙂 When it's working it's great. I love the UI and it feels very powerful yet easy to use.
Then finally the update to version 7 came. And after installing that my computer failed to boot. I eventually had to unplug all of my extra hard drives and cd roms and usb devices before it would boot.
And that's when I gave up and bought vista. Even though it's also ****** it works and I didn't have to edit any text files to install it.
The ubuntu forums are just shy of hostile towards new users too which doesn't help either.
I don't think linux will ever be a good OS for consumers, nor will it ever overcome it's hardware problems. Nobody is going to work on boring installer problems for X and maintain it because even if you happened to have tons of hardware laying around, it's not much fun to work on. I'm a programmer myself, I know there is a huge difference between writing a program for yourself vs end users. The only way the latter can happen is if you're paid to work on it.
The other thing is the driver issues. Linux types seem to be caught up in an open free hippy ideal where companies "just need to release source code" that is just never going to happen unless ip laws change. In the real world drivers are going to be closed source for quite a long time to come, and as hardware gets more and more complicated this is going to be harder and harder to duplicate. Linux needs some way of accepting this and make a compatible driver api to windows or something and just promote ease of porting. But it will never happen because it's so anti-rms.
Linux development tools and practices are also showing their age. GCC was good once but it's not even competitive with VC anymore.
I used ubuntu 6 from since it was released until 7 just came out as my only OS. Since all I really do is browse the web and code I didn't really care about 3d support, all I wanted was something that performed those two basic functions.
All of my problems were hardware related issues as well. The first time I installed it and it went into power saving mode it erased the bios on my motherboard (and I don't just mean cleared the settings), fortunately it had the ability to restore from a flash drive or my mb would be dead.
Still, I boldly tried it again, and there is too much editing of /etc/X11/xorg.conf which can be rather daunting when you are unfamiliar with the system. There seems to be no standard way of autodetecting things and the documentation is hazy and incomplete and contains phrases like "maybe nobody really knows how this section works"
After slogging through and figuring out the basics I finally get my wacom to work but it's mouse wheel is reversed... somehow this just broke in version 6 and I found a way of reversing it in runtime, but it would reset when I rebooted. I lived like this for a few months until I found the right text files to modify and just guessed at the format because no documentation existed.
For 6 months it ran with no problems. I never tried power saving during that time 🙂 When it's working it's great. I love the UI and it feels very powerful yet easy to use.
Then finally the update to version 7 came. And after installing that my computer failed to boot. I eventually had to unplug all of my extra hard drives and cd roms and usb devices before it would boot.
And that's when I gave up and bought vista. Even though it's also ****** it works and I didn't have to edit any text files to install it.
The ubuntu forums are just shy of hostile towards new users too which doesn't help either.
I don't think linux will ever be a good OS for consumers, nor will it ever overcome it's hardware problems. Nobody is going to work on boring installer problems for X and maintain it because even if you happened to have tons of hardware laying around, it's not much fun to work on. I'm a programmer myself, I know there is a huge difference between writing a program for yourself vs end users. The only way the latter can happen is if you're paid to work on it.
The other thing is the driver issues. Linux types seem to be caught up in an open free hippy ideal where companies "just need to release source code" that is just never going to happen unless ip laws change. In the real world drivers are going to be closed source for quite a long time to come, and as hardware gets more and more complicated this is going to be harder and harder to duplicate. Linux needs some way of accepting this and make a compatible driver api to windows or something and just promote ease of porting. But it will never happen because it's so anti-rms.
Linux development tools and practices are also showing their age. GCC was good once but it's not even competitive with VC anymore.
I'm going to call shens...unless you were doing something REALLY screwy. I have NEVER had it mess with my BIOS, let alone erase it, and I have installed Linux on anything that will hold still long enough 😉
Again, for 95% of people with your 2 needs, it "just works". I have installed Ubuntu on several laptops and desktops, and never had to edit xorg.conf unless it was for a very specific purpose, such as to enable extra buttons on the mouse, or enable 3d support.
Updating from release to release on Ubuntu is iffy at best, but the same can be said of Windows....
Yes, because Vista is perfect and there are not problems...oh wait, 2/3rds of the threads in the OS forum are Vista related right now....
I have found the opposite to be true, they seem to be very willing to help
Linux won't be a good consumer desktop OS until OEM's start shipping it out. How often does your Dell show up with no drivers for the video card, or sound not working?
You are flat out wrong. They never ask them to release drivers or source code, what they ask for is DOCUMENTATION of the HARDWARE and the hardware API's. The problem is that so many companies are doing cheap, crappy hardware, and fixing hardware/firmware level issues in drivers, rather then taking the time to do something right. There is a major difference between documenting the hardware and the hardware API's and opening the source to their drivers.
GCC is probably used MUCH more then VC, so how can that be even remotely true? If VC were truly superior, and not just "newer" it would get used more then GCC
Nothinman
Elite Member
Dynamically configured Xorg that needs no config file is already being worked on. Most of the drivers are already written so there's no need for most Xorg developers to have tons of hardware laying around any more.
You might have a point if the majority of Linux drivers weren't already open sourced. The only closed source drivers that most people will need are from nVidia and ATI just about everything else that's supported has either had GPL'd drivers released by the manufacturer or been reverse engineered already. And somehow companies like Intel, IBM, HP, Dell, etc have found a way to release driver source code under current IP laws so you seem to be confused about that part too.
MercenaryForHire
Lifer
I'm going to have to make a strafing run with the ROFLCopter at that line.
Intel's GMA series is garbage compared to even the lowest of low-end discrete cards, "open drivers" or not.
- M4H
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