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I'm concerned that vouchers for Medicare won't reduce the deficit.

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
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It's really not a good idea because there are other alternatives such as means testing and medicare part D reform (ending/reducing patents, government paying only for generic drugs or imported drugs). In addition, contracting out medicare via vouchers for insurance would be more likely to perpetuate it because the insurance companies that accept vouchers won't give up the funds from tax payers.

I've estimated that medicare part D reform, as mentioned above, would save at least 1/2 of the medicare Part D cost. If I'm not mistaken, part D expenditures were $60Bn for FY2012, and they're only going to go up. I don't think that contracting out medicare via vouchers will save much more than $30Bn/year in the long run because once you give an inch of subsidies, it will grow to a mile.

In addition, means testing for medicare could save future generations a lot of money. However, that's not what the R.E. wants to do. Instead of the alternative, they want to waste taxpayers' money by giving everyone the same amount worth of vouchers when they could just cut the wealthy and big pharma off while saving future generations a lot of money. They could eventually phase medicare out for everyone (they would ideally abolish it immediately, but that's not going to happen).

Part of the reason the government shouldn't exist and part of why I hate government so much is because it distorts the market. Governments granting vouchers and contracts distorts the market nearly as much as completely socializing the industries.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,992
5,036
126
This is going to go nowhere anyways. Seniors won't give up a guarantee for a voucher. And seniors actually bother to vote. If Romney wants to lose the election on this by strapping himself to the roof of Ryan's car, that's his prerogative.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,215
13
81
This is going to go nowhere anyways. Seniors won't give up a guarantee for a voucher. And seniors actually bother to vote. If Romney wants to lose the election on this by strapping himself to the roof of Ryan's car, that's his prerogative.
What kills me is the GOP actually think this draconian Legislation is popular. Even my Rabid Republican Oldman brags about his Mediscare and all the benefits he is getting from the ACA. I make it a point to illustrate his rampant hypocrisy and lack of knowledge about the party he is backing...:D
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
Watches as the entire country is inching toward a giant pit of bankruptcy. So what happens when the govt goes into default? What will happen if we borrow so much money that someone calls in their note? Remember what a budget is?

No more SS
No more Medicare
No more Foodstamps
All Govt bonds are worth $0.00
Credit Cards quit working
Banks all go belly up
Government lays off most people
No money for Govt Svcs like schools and snowplows
Have fun!

Take a look at what happened to New York state when it went into default!
 
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boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
638
126
Watches as the entire country is inching toward a giant pit of bankruptcy. So what happens when the govt goes into default? What will happen if we borrow so much money that someone calls in their note? Remember what a budget is?

No more SS
No more Medicare
No more Foodstamps
All Govt bonds are worth $0.00
Credit Cards quit working
Banks all go belly up
Government lays off most people
No money for Govt Svcs like schools and snowplows
Have fun!

Take a look at what happened to New York state when it went into default!
What? No need to worry. The answer is to keep borrowing trillions. Besides, it's too hard and somebody else should take care of this stuff. Let's close our eyes and blunder forward. Remember that the key word in Progressive is 'Progress'. We have lots of things to spend on and little time to do it. Progress is important.

Let's chant...
Debt, debt, debt, debt! Ah, warms the soul doesn't it?
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
192
106
What? No need to worry. The answer is to keep borrowing trillions.
Who needs to worry about money when the federal reserve can pring money out of thin air?

Need a trillion by monday? No problem, the federal reserve will just work through the weekend.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
means testing? so another strike against the people who actually pay into the system?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
I oppose any voucher plan.

And anybody thinking that's going to save money is mistaken IMO. As the cost of HI goes higher, political pressure for increased voucher amounts will mount. The govt will end up continually paying out more and more.

The underlying problem of escalating costs for health care needs to be fixed. Until that happens such things as vouchers etc are futile.

Fern
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
It's really not a good idea because there are other alternatives such as means testing and medicare part D reform (ending/reducing patents, government paying only for generic drugs or imported drugs). In addition, contracting out medicare via vouchers for insurance would be more likely to perpetuate it because the insurance companies that accept vouchers won't give up the funds from tax payers.
Who are you and what did you do to Anarchist420?
Part of the reason the government shouldn't exist and part of why I hate government so much is because it distorts the market. Governments granting vouchers and contracts distorts the market nearly as much as completely socializing the industries.
Uh-huh, trying to seem all genuine, now... :hmm:

Really, though, the market will distort itself one way or another without government, which is why they have their hands in the markets in the first place. Government has had a lot to do with excellent economic progress in this country, too, if you'd care to go back and look at our history, and that of any other nation.

But, pretty much everything about our health care these days is designed largely for the perpetuation of a broken system. The mandate in, "Obamacare," the very idea of private vouchers for what should be government run services...ugh.

Don't be concerned. You can't do anything about it, anyway, as long as too many other people keep voting down party lines. Just let it go, and make sure you have a steady supply of popcorn (which has gone up from $3 to $5 per jar in the last few years!).
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
72,499
23,421
136
I oppose any voucher plan.

And anybody thinking that's going to save money is mistaken IMO. As the cost of HI goes higher, political pressure for increased voucher amounts will mount. The govt will end up continually paying out more and more.

The underlying problem of escalating costs for health care needs to be fixed. Until that happens such things as vouchers etc are futile.

Fern
Yes, vouchers are bad for many reasons. Not only is an increase in voucher amounts likely, even if they didn't go higher, you would just be forcing the elderly to pay more out of pocket for premiums. While that might be good for government budgets, it would just be cost shifting and wouldn't do much for overall US expenditures on health care, which is the real problem.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Who needs to worry about money when the federal reserve can pring money out of thin air?

Need a trillion by monday? No problem, the federal reserve will just work through the weekend.
And eventually it'll all become toilet paper if they keep on printing without any sign of concern or caution.
 

schneiderguy

Lifer
Jun 26, 2006
10,763
31
91
No more SS
No more Medicare
No more Foodstamps
All Govt bonds are worth $0.00
Credit Cards quit working
Banks all go belly up
Government lays off most people
No money for Govt Svcs like schools and snowplows
Have fun!
Sounds like a recipe for a prosperous economy and Freedom from tyranny to me.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,386
2
81
Watches as the entire country is inching toward a giant pit of bankruptcy. So what happens when the govt goes into default? What will happen if we borrow so much money that someone calls in their note? Remember what a budget is?

No more SS
No more Medicare
No more Foodstamps
All Govt bonds are worth $0.00
Credit Cards quit working
Banks all go belly up
Government lays off most people
No money for Govt Svcs like schools and snowplows
Have fun!

Take a look at what happened to New York state when it went into default!
Doesnt quite work that way. govt just prints shorts falls (even now) and will print once interest on existing debt approaches 100% of revenue. Only happened like a few dozens times in world history. (see Wiemar republic) Then printing fixes all problems you 'pay' ppl off 'pay' benefits but money is worthless so it doesnt mean anything. Then after 2-10 years of hell you start a new currency after riots are done and civil order is restored and start again. Dont worry so much.
 
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Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,386
2
81
In all seriousness we have a cost of HC problem in this country not a "unlimited access" for seniors HC. Should be obvious when we spend twice per capita as next closet (canada) and don't even insure everyone.
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
9,451
3,500
136
Yes, vouchers are bad for many reasons. Not only is an increase in voucher amounts likely, even if they didn't go higher, you would just be forcing the elderly to pay more out of pocket for premiums. While that might be good for government budgets, it would just be cost shifting and wouldn't do much for overall US expenditures on health care, which is the real problem.
Exactly. It would take less than an election cycle for the pols to be pandering to the elderly to increase the subsidies to cover the rising costs, but now into a for profit system with reduced direct cost controls.

The elderly will get coverage either way. Ryan just wants to rebuild Medicare Advantage.

Have to fix the root, not try to shift costs. IDK anyone listens to this clown.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Who needs to worry about money when the federal reserve can pring money out of thin air?

Need a trillion by monday? No problem, the federal reserve will just work through the weekend.

You did say 'need'. I presume there is a liquidity need and that is exactly what the FED is suppose to do... If the currency is not there then the economy won't grow.
Printing currency beyond need creates inflation and constricting the currency creates disinflation, or it should... could...

The notion for having a fiat currency instead of a gold or asparagus backed note is you can only have as much gold backed notes as you have gold in the vault.
 

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