Im behind Obama on this one

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
I have to say, there's alot I dont like about him, but some things I do. I still think he's got the most competent business team of any POTUS to date. First it started in March with the temporary increase in government guarantees to SBA loans to 90%, eliminating fees, and buy $15 billion in SBA backed securities. And this week in his public address he stressed the importance of SAVING. I LOVE THIS. As one who has sat down with I dont know how many families earning $100k+/yr who live paycheck to paycheck, I think its about time we get people some encouragement to SAVE for a change.

One of many stories here.

President Barack Obama outlines new ways for Americans to save for retirement

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

The recession has eaten into people's nest eggs so the government is promoting ways to make it easier to save for retirement.

One initiative that President Barack Obama outlined in his weekly radio and Internet address Saturday will allow people to have their federal tax refunds sent as savings bonds. Others are meant to require workers to take action to stay out of an employer-run savings program rather than having to take action to join it.

"We know that automatic enrollment has made a big difference in participation rates by making it simpler for workers to save," Obama said. "That's why we're going to expand it to more people."

The new federal steps, which do not require congressional action, include: -Making it easier for small companies to set up 401(k) retirement savings plans in which all workers are automatically enrolled unless they ask to be omitted.

Employers can set default amounts of each worker's pay - perhaps 3 percent - to automatically be deposited into the accounts without being taxed.

Workers can raise or lower the contribution levels, and they choose how to invest the money.

They will pay taxes on the money only when they withdraw it as retirees, when their tax rates are likely to be lower than when they are working full-time. A similar process would apply to savings plans called SIMPLE-IRAs.

-Allowing such plans to automatically increase the amount that workers save over time unless the workers object.

-Allowing people to check a box on their federal tax returns asking that any refund be sent as a savings bond. More than 100 million U.S. households receive refund checks each year, and many are promptly cashed and spent.

-Allowing workers, when leaving a job, to direct unused vacation pay to a retirement savings account rather than taking it in cash.

"This recession has not only led to the loss of jobs, but also the loss of savings," Obama said, citing declines in home values as well as sources of retirement income.

"If you work hard and meet your responsibilities, this country is going to honor our collective responsibility to you: to ensure that you can save and secure your retirement. That is why we are announcing several commonsense changes that will help families put away money for the future," Obama said.

The administration earlier asked Congress to make it easier to set up retirement accounts for people whose workplaces do not offer them.

No legislation has moved thus far.

"Tens of millions of families have been, for a variety of reasons, unable to put away enough money for a secure retirement," Obama said.

"Half of America's work force doesn't have access to a retirement plan at work. And fewer than 10 percent of those without workplace retirement plans have one of their own."

Nearly half of the U.S. work force has little or nothing beyond Social Security benefits to get by on in old age, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said.

"Just as the administration is dedicated to reviving the economy and getting people back to work, so too it is dedicated to helping put retirement security within the reach of all Americans," Geithner said in a statement.

While saving for retirement is universally seen as a good idea, any increase in savings rates could somewhat slow the nation's rebound from the economic recession.

 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
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106
Originally posted by: blackangst1
-snip-

From the article:

While saving for retirement is universally seen as a good idea, any increase in savings rates could somewhat slow the nation's rebound from the economic recession.

That's my concern. We're primarily a consumer driven economy and if people don't spend we won't get out of this economic situation.

I think timing is the key. While I personally support savings, at this time of bad economic times 'hanging on' is the priority. No one really has extra money for savings. I think it OK to be working on future plans for savings, but I wouldn't be pushing them until after a recovery.

Fern
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: blackangst1
-snip-

From the article:

While saving for retirement is universally seen as a good idea, any increase in savings rates could somewhat slow the nation's rebound from the economic recession.

That's my concern. We're primarily a consumer driven economy and if people don't spend we won't get out of this economic situation.

I think timing is the key. While I personally support savings, at this time of bad economic times 'hanging on' is the priority. No one really has extra money for savings. I think it OK to be working on future plans for savings, but I wouldn't be pushing them until after a recovery.

Fern

I understand. Its kind of a paradox of our economy-we are, as you said, consumer driven; however, what kind of shape do you think our economy would be in if even 25% of retired people started saving $50/mo when they got their first job? Pretty good I would say. And as bad as the economy is at this time, I believe most people are doing fine. When I say most, I mean majority. I know I for one havent been affected, other than not getting a 3% raise this year, but no biggie-I live well below my income. Im not sure the majority of those who are working have been affected much. I saw an article somewhere (yeah I know "somewhere" doesnt mean much) that said in 2nd quarter more Americans saved than any time in the last 25 years. I think thats good news.
 

masteryoda34

Golden Member
Dec 17, 2007
1,399
3
81
The reason we don't save any money is because the Federal Reserve evaporates the money out of our bank accounts with their loose money policies. People won't save more money until it actually keeps its value.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: masteryoda34
The reason we don't save any money is because the Federal Reserve evaporates the money out of our bank accounts with their loose money policies. People won't save more money until it actually keeps its value.

WTF are you talking about? Most Americans dont save because people are generally fiscally naive. I wont say stupid, but...its a problem when we arent taught BASIC economics when we're younger. i.e. how to balance a checkbook. How to save. How to budget. Things like that. So when we get out into the real world, we dont know the value of a dollar, and spend what we have when we have it.

edit: let me give you an example. Im not rich by any means (I dont think so anyway). My income puts me in upper 1/3 of middle class; however, I save more money each moneth than alot of people making 5x my amount. Why? Habit. When I was younger and made 21k/yr, I learned to live on 20k and out 1k aside. When I made 35k, I learned to live on 32k, poutting 3k aside. When I got my allowance when I was a kid (I grew up fairly poor) I put $1 of every $4 that I got into a passbook savings account. Yep. Mom took me to the bank and I handed the teller $1 and my passbook. I bought my first bike when I was 10 with my own money. As a teenager I washed cars and mowed lawns, and ALWAYS put $1 out of every $4 I made into savings. I bought my first motorcycle at 17 with my own money. Thats how I learned.
 

ccbadd

Senior member
Jan 19, 2004
456
0
76
Originally posted by: masteryoda34
The reason we don't save any money is because the Federal Reserve evaporates the money out of our bank accounts with their loose money policies. People won't save more money until it actually keeps its value.

AMEN! If people only paid attention to the hidden tax (inflated currency) that robs both our savings and paychecks.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
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Originally posted by: masteryoda34
The reason we don't save any money is because the Federal Reserve evaporates the money out of our bank accounts with their loose money policies. People won't save more money until it actually keeps its value.
Yes, because everyone I know loves to live a financially irresponsible existence living paycheck-to-paycheck just to piss off The Fed.

:roll:
 

ccbadd

Senior member
Jan 19, 2004
456
0
76
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: masteryoda34
The reason we don't save any money is because the Federal Reserve evaporates the money out of our bank accounts with their loose money policies. People won't save more money until it actually keeps its value.

WTF are you talking about? Most Americans dont save because people are generally fiscally naive. I wont say stupid, but...its a problem when we arent taught BASIC economics when we're younger. i.e. how to balance a checkbook. How to save. How to budget. Things like that. So when we get out into the real world, we dont know the value of a dollar, and spend what we have when we have it.

I don't know about everyone, but I did have a class called "Family Living" that dealt specifically with this. This was in high school, but I do believe it was an elective.

As far as the fed goes, how many people take into account the change is value of our currency when the do save? Kind of makes a $10,000 CD not so attractive. I do agree with you, I bet middle class Americans spend more on Bud Light than retirement.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Originally posted by: masteryoda34
The reason we don't save any money is because the Federal Reserve evaporates the money out of our bank accounts with their loose money policies. People won't save more money until it actually keeps its value.

Except this doesn't happen to any significant degree in the first place and hasn't happened for almost 30 years. Plus the alternative has been thoroughly documented as worse.
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
Americans dont save because theye been culturally brainwashed into thinking that spending every dollar they have is a good thing.

 

ccbadd

Senior member
Jan 19, 2004
456
0
76
Originally posted by: First
Originally posted by: masteryoda34
The reason we don't save any money is because the Federal Reserve evaporates the money out of our bank accounts with their loose money policies. People won't save more money until it actually keeps its value.

Except this doesn't happen to any significant degree in the first place and hasn't happened for almost 30 years. Plus the alternative has been thoroughly documented as worse.

Monetary policy drives inflation which absolutely has happened in the last 30 years.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Obama will give me a house and healthcare. Why should I save?
How many well-to-do people do you know willingly trade in their retirement portfolios so they can live off welfare?
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Obama will give me a house and healthcare. Why should I save?
How many well-to-do people do you know willingly trade in their retirement portfolios so they can live off welfare?

How many well to do families do you know that live paycheck to paycheck? I know many.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
I agree with blackangst1 100% on this, not only on the importance of saving money, but of giving the Pres. credit for good policies when he's earned it. I also supported his signing of the CC bill back in May.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Bush suggested giving an account similar to a Roth IRA a few years ago. You would be able to put up to $5,000 per year in the account after tax but you could withdraw the money, including earnings, tax free at any time with no penalties. The only issue was that the idea (bill?) proposed would eliminate traditional and Roth IRA's at the same time. While the original idea was great (and I would have loved it in a slightly different format), the idea of getting rid of the other retirement accounts in lieu of the above would have been bad. Imagine people using this as their retirement account and having the ability to take the money at any time with no tax and penalty? It would have been a disaster, lol! :p

I'm generally for anything that promotes savings though. Something that I try to live my life around. :)
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
I like it also. I would like it even better if they allowed folks who were investing in a 401K (or similar plan) the option to opt-out of SS.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: CPA
I like it also. I would like it even better if they allowed folks who were investing in a 401K (or similar plan) the option to opt-out of SS.

I used to feel that way (when I was younger), but I've paid in too long now. I want my money, lol! :p
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
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-Making it easier for small companies to set up 401(k) retirement savings plans in which all workers are automatically enrolled unless they ask to be omitted.

This is a great idea -- I'm sure a lot of people missed out on an easy 15%+ gain this year from "buying low" because they said no to joining their company 401k out of fears about the market. They also missed out on the 20%+ gain from not paying income tax on 401k contributions, and possibly another 50-100% gain from employer matching.

For retirement investments it's very hard to beat that instant gain from tax savings and matching, even if your 401k has second-rate funds like mine.
 

masteryoda34

Golden Member
Dec 17, 2007
1,399
3
81
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: masteryoda34
The reason we don't save any money is because the Federal Reserve evaporates the money out of our bank accounts with their loose money policies. People won't save more money until it actually keeps its value.
Yes, because everyone I know loves to live a financially irresponsible existence living paycheck-to-paycheck just to piss off The Fed.

:roll:

This is the behavior the fed supports.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: masteryoda34
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: masteryoda34
The reason we don't save any money is because the Federal Reserve evaporates the money out of our bank accounts with their loose money policies. People won't save more money until it actually keeps its value.
Yes, because everyone I know loves to live a financially irresponsible existence living paycheck-to-paycheck just to piss off The Fed.

:roll:

This is the behavior the fed supports.

The fed promotes inflation to promote commerce. If people invested in currency rather than goods, commerce would come to a standstill and the economy would collapse. Case in point: despite the Fed's loose money policies, we are currently experiencing deflation in the economy.
Granted, a higher savings rate is needed to spur investment and lending, which is a serious problem right now, but your premise is whacked and/or 5 years too late.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Obama will give me a house and healthcare. Why should I save?
How many well-to-do people do you know willingly trade in their retirement portfolios so they can live off welfare?

*points to sig*
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
clearly the answer to dealing with inflation is to invest in cash and depreciating assests, not investing in interest returning assets.
 

paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
6,539
286
126
www.the-teh.com
Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Americans dont save because theye been culturally brainwashed into thinking that spending every dollar they have is a good thing.

Maybe some people don't have any money to save, taxes, taxes, taxes, high costs of living and low levels of pay sometimes make that impossible.

It's all BS anyway, give me a real tax free place to put my money and not this shell game politics play.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: paperfist
Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Americans dont save because theye been culturally brainwashed into thinking that spending every dollar they have is a good thing.

Maybe some people don't have any money to save, taxes, taxes, taxes, high costs of living and low levels of pay sometimes make that impossible.

It's all BS anyway, give me a real tax free place to put my money and not this shell game politics play.

If you're referring to Federal taxes, you're paying the lowest rate (and burden for that matter) in the last 50 years. Maybe the high cost of living as real wages have been declining since the 60's.