Illinois govenor wants to jack taxes

[imported_Shivetya]

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/cour...ws/288337,3_1_EL08_A1BUDGET_S1.article


Seems he wants to jack taxes. He is playing the God card, children car, and the class warfare card as well. He figures that if he can guilt his opponents, invoke God to support him, or rely on tax ignorance, he can win his proposals.

First, any tax on business is just a tax on consumers. Its called embedded taxes. No business ever pays a cent in taxes. Relying on voter ignorance is how politicians pass off higher business taxes - after all businesses are evil. Trouble is, for a business to pay taxes they have to make money. To make money they have to get someone to buy their product or service. That someone is the voter. Go figure.

Best of his proposals, gross tax receipts. This looks like and end run on taxing products that are later used to create other items. In other words, taxing raw materials. Worse, how about taxing the doctors for the services rendered? Can you imagine paying taxes on haircuts, doctor visits, and such? Well actually you already do through embedded taxes.

Oh, this one is a democrat.

 

[jrenz]

They're also trying to pass a ridiculous assault weapons ban... many times more vague and restrictive than the already ridiculous federal ban (which expired, thank god)

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: jrenz
They're also trying to pass a ridiculous assault weapons ban... many times more vague and restrictive than the already ridiculous federal ban (which expired, thank god)

I always loved the "ugly gun weapons ban" . Hell my friend has over 40 guns, many on the list. Some of the ones he has that are not on the list were far more nasty than anything on it.

Still, the rule in Washington is, rely on ignorance. When you cannot rely on it make it.

 

[DerekP]

I have a question. In the two days I've been reading these forums, I've seen all kinds of taxes bashed. So is it the belief of everyone here that they've never seen a tax they've liked? The good old less government is better, and less funding is less government? Or is it just dislike of anything that comes out of your pocket? What would be a good method of the government gaining revenue to make up the current fiscal spreadsheet imbalances?

... ok more like 4 questions.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: DerekP
I have a question. In the two days I've been reading these forums, I've seen all kinds of taxes bashed.

No, the only thing you have seen is from the radical right wingers bashing any Democrats for raising taxes.

 

[piasabird]

There is a county near me that banned pump action shotguns. Only single shot shotguns allowed for hunting. How they plan on enforcing this is a good question. It is kind of nearsighted to allow the guns to be sold and the next year pass a ban on them. Obviously the people that bought pump action shotguns planned on hunting with them for years in the future. Politicians have no intelligence. The criminals can get all the illegal weapons they want.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: DerekP
I have a question. In the two days I've been reading these forums, I've seen all kinds of taxes bashed.

No, the only thing you have seen is from the radical right wingers bashing any Democrats for raising taxes.

A day without Dave spouting lies would be a shock.

He has too, otherwise he has nothing to say.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: DerekP
I have a question. In the two days I've been reading these forums, I've seen all kinds of taxes bashed. So is it the belief of everyone here that they've never seen a tax they've liked? The good old less government is better, and less funding is less government? Or is it just dislike of anything that comes out of your pocket? What would be a good method of the government gaining revenue to make up the current fiscal spreadsheet imbalances?

... ok more like 4 questions.

I am against new taxes period. The government already directly and indirectly taxes the people more than enough. The problem is that taxes have turned into vote buying schemes. I would love to know how much of Government spending at the Federal level could be justified by the Constitution.

A bigger government is more intrusive and takes away your rights. Governments get bigger by taking more from the people.

The best way our government could raise revenues is to reduce its burden upon the people. If the people have more to spend revenue goes up. If they are afraid to spend because of burdensome taxes on earnings, investments, and expenditures, they won't.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/cour...ws/288337,3_1_EL08_A1BUDGET_S1.article

Seems he wants to jack taxes. He is playing the God card, children car, and the class warfare card as well.

He figures that if he can guilt his opponents, invoke God to support him, or rely on tax ignorance, he can win his proposals.

First, any tax on business is just a tax on consumers. Its called embedded taxes. No business ever pays a cent in taxes. Relying on voter ignorance is how politicians pass off higher business taxes - after all businesses are evil. Trouble is, for a business to pay taxes they have to make money. To make money they have to get someone to buy their product or service. That someone is the voter. Go figure.

Best of his proposals, gross tax receipts. This looks like and end run on taxing products that are later used to create other items. In other words, taxing raw materials. Worse, how about taxing the doctors for the services rendered? Can you imagine paying taxes on haircuts, doctor visits, and such? Well actually you already do through embedded taxes.

Oh, this one is a democrat.

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: DerekP
I have a question. In the two days I've been reading these forums, I've seen all kinds of taxes bashed.

No, the only thing you have seen is from the radical right wingers bashing any Democrats for raising taxes.

A day without Dave spouting lies would be a shock.

He has too, otherwise he has nothing to say.

and same goes for your kind, not a day without your drivel goes by either.

Very sad for this Country.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Whether a business actually pays taxes depends on what happens to demand for their products or services when the price goes up, which is to say, how much of the tax they can offset by raising prices.

The tax is then split between shareholders and consumers in some unique-to-the-industry ratio.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya
http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/cour...ws/288337,3_1_EL08_A1BUDGET_S1.article

Seems he wants to jack taxes. He is playing the God card, children car, and the class warfare card as well.

He figures that if he can guilt his opponents, invoke God to support him, or rely on tax ignorance, he can win his proposals.

First, any tax on business is just a tax on consumers. Its called embedded taxes. No business ever pays a cent in taxes. Relying on voter ignorance is how politicians pass off higher business taxes - after all businesses are evil. Trouble is, for a business to pay taxes they have to make money. To make money they have to get someone to buy their product or service. That someone is the voter. Go figure.

Best of his proposals, gross tax receipts. This looks like and end run on taxing products that are later used to create other items. In other words, taxing raw materials. Worse, how about taxing the doctors for the services rendered? Can you imagine paying taxes on haircuts, doctor visits, and such? Well actually you already do through embedded taxes.

Oh, this one is a democrat.

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: DerekP
I have a question. In the two days I've been reading these forums, I've seen all kinds of taxes bashed.

No, the only thing you have seen is from the radical right wingers bashing any Democrats for raising taxes.

A day without Dave spouting lies would be a shock.

He has too, otherwise he has nothing to say.

and same goes for your kind, not a day without your drivel goes by either.

Very sad for this Country.

C'mon Dave, debate the issue from the OP? Can you? You never do. Anytime one of your class warfare moonbats comes around you can't do anything but attempt to smear the person who dares to highlight it.

Face it, your a simpleton with no opinion other than what your told to have by your puppet masters.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Whether a business actually pays taxes depends on what happens to demand for their products or services when the price goes up, which is to say, how much of the tax they can offset by raising prices.

The tax is then split between shareholders and consumers in some unique-to-the-industry ratio.

The is no difference between a consumer or shareholder. Both are people, hence people pay all taxes, businesses do not pay any tax.

 

[DerekP]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: DerekP
I have a question. In the two days I've been reading these forums, I've seen all kinds of taxes bashed. So is it the belief of everyone here that they've never seen a tax they've liked? The good old less government is better, and less funding is less government? Or is it just dislike of anything that comes out of your pocket? What would be a good method of the government gaining revenue to make up the current fiscal spreadsheet imbalances?

... ok more like 4 questions.

I am against new taxes period. The government already directly and indirectly taxes the people more than enough. The problem is that taxes have turned into vote buying schemes. I would love to know how much of Government spending at the Federal level could be justified by the Constitution.

A bigger government is more intrusive and takes away your rights. Governments get bigger by taking more from the people.

The best way our government could raise revenues is to reduce its burden upon the people. If the people have more to spend revenue goes up. If they are afraid to spend because of burdensome taxes on earnings, investments, and expenditures, they won't.

Well from my understanding of it (which isn't all that studied..), the Constitution doesn't outline what can or cannot be spent on, only who is to authorize the spending. The Constitution only says that congress has the power of the purse, not what to do with that power.

If you take the standard conservative interpretation, they lean a lot on the last part where everything not outlined in the Constitution is the domain of the states. But it seems that it is the states that are railed on the most for their new taxes. Quite possibly because they are the only ones creating them in the past 6 years.

So, the way you see it, lower the BS taxes, give people more money to spend, and they'll increase their revenue through the basic taxes that people spend more on. I can't help but see it as a zero-sum game all around. More money to the government means less money in our pockets, period. Whether it comes about when the money hits your account or leaves it, it seems the same effect to me.

However, I also believe that there are things that the government needs to address that only the government can address, such as social programs that truly benefit everyone, with no strings of religion or affiliation attached. And this makes tax a necessary burden.

I would love for a comprehensive audit of government spending to come about sometime in the near future so we could see once and for all what money goes where, unfortunately the government can't be relied on to audit itself. We've seen the results of that. I think they key lies in our tangled bureaucracy that hides so much.

Forgive the rambling, but when you address tax you really address the entire workings of our nation, no small subject.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya
http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/cour...ws/288337,3_1_EL08_A1BUDGET_S1.article

Seems he wants to jack taxes. He is playing the God card, children car, and the class warfare card as well.

He figures that if he can guilt his opponents, invoke God to support him, or rely on tax ignorance, he can win his proposals.

First, any tax on business is just a tax on consumers. Its called embedded taxes. No business ever pays a cent in taxes. Relying on voter ignorance is how politicians pass off higher business taxes - after all businesses are evil. Trouble is, for a business to pay taxes they have to make money. To make money they have to get someone to buy their product or service. That someone is the voter. Go figure.

Best of his proposals, gross tax receipts. This looks like and end run on taxing products that are later used to create other items. In other words, taxing raw materials. Worse, how about taxing the doctors for the services rendered? Can you imagine paying taxes on haircuts, doctor visits, and such? Well actually you already do through embedded taxes.

Oh, this one is a democrat.

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: DerekP
I have a question. In the two days I've been reading these forums, I've seen all kinds of taxes bashed.

No, the only thing you have seen is from the radical right wingers bashing any Democrats for raising taxes.

A day without Dave spouting lies would be a shock.

He has too, otherwise he has nothing to say.

and same goes for your kind, not a day without your drivel goes by either.

Very sad for this Country.

C'mon Dave, debate the issue from the OP? Can you? You never do. Anytime one of your class warfare moonbats comes around you can't do anything but attempt to smear the person who dares to highlight it.

Face it, your a simpleton with no opinion other than what your told to have by your puppet masters.

That's where you are wrong and we differ.

I have no "Puppet Masters" unlike you and your Rovian GOP Puppeteers.

 

[techs]

Yeah, taxes are bad. And Illinois has high taxes. They also have a far better standard of living than low tax states, longer and healthier lives, more access to health care, higher education, more wealth and do all that while supporting states like Mississippi and Alabama which have low taxes and a much lower standard of living.

Oops, I guess I just proved that there is a relationship between higher taxes and better living and a relationship between lower taxes and a lower standard of living.

 

[K1052]

I predict little of this is going to clear the state legislature, as many of them actually want to be re-elected for more terms. "Vote for me and I'll be the governor's stooge and pass whatever higher taxes he wants" isn't exactly a winner of a campaign slogan.

Blagojevich has made a lot of enemies in the legislature over his last term and proved his word is basically worthless so he is going to have a hell of a time getting cooperation for something as unpopular as massive tax hikes.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: DerekP
I have a question. In the two days I've been reading these forums, I've seen all kinds of taxes bashed. So is it the belief of everyone here that they've never seen a tax they've liked? The good old less government is better, and less funding is less government? Or is it just dislike of anything that comes out of your pocket? What would be a good method of the government gaining revenue to make up the current fiscal spreadsheet imbalances?

... ok more like 4 questions.

1. Minimal taxes imo
2. More govt == oppression and corruption
3. Of course nobody liks somebody else digging into their pocket to pay for something they want. I would assume if I garnished your wages to pay for a new deck, you'd be fuming. So why do you think every pet project a politician claims he\she needs doesnt make people fume?
4. Reduce spending obviously.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: techs
Yeah, taxes are bad. And Illinois has high taxes. They also have a far better standard of living than low tax states, longer and healthier lives, more access to health care, higher education, more wealth and do all that while supporting states like Mississippi and Alabama which have low taxes and a much lower standard of living.

Oops, I guess I just proved that there is a relationship between higher taxes and better living and a relationship between lower taxes and a lower standard of living.

Yup,
more people in poverty than some neigboring states.
higher percentage not graduating high school than some neighboring states
higher unemployment than some neighboring states
life expentacy by state, many low tax states are much higher


oh, yeah, much better than other states with lower taxes. Too bad you don't look jack up ever.

 

[theeedude]

I wonder if the people who believe that business taxes are consumer taxes also believe that government spending is consumer spending?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: senseamp
I wonder if the people who believe that business taxes are consumer taxes also believe that government spending is consumer spending?

How can a govt entity be considered consumer spending? Business taxes are consumer taxes because the taxes are often pushed along in the cost of the sale.

You raise taxes on McDonalds and who pays? People see their value meals raised by 5 cents.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: senseamp
I wonder if the people who believe that business taxes are consumer taxes also believe that government spending is consumer spending?

How can a govt entity be considered consumer spending? Business taxes are consumer taxes because the taxes are often pushed along in the cost of the sale.

You raise taxes on McDonalds and who pays? People see their value meals raised by 5 cents.

Government spends money on the people too.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: senseamp
I wonder if the people who believe that business taxes are consumer taxes also believe that government spending is consumer spending?

How can a govt entity be considered consumer spending? Business taxes are consumer taxes because the taxes are often pushed along in the cost of the sale.

You raise taxes on McDonalds and who pays? People see their value meals raised by 5 cents.

Government spends money on the people too.

Well thank you for pointing out the obvious. That doesnt mean it is "consumer" spending.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: DerekP
I have a question. In the two days I've been reading these forums, I've seen all kinds of taxes bashed. So is it the belief of everyone here that they've never seen a tax they've liked? The good old less government is better, and less funding is less government? Or is it just dislike of anything that comes out of your pocket? What would be a good method of the government gaining revenue to make up the current fiscal spreadsheet imbalances?

... ok more like 4 questions.

Right now nearly a third of all income in the US goes to some kind of tax.
Out of every dollar you make about 32 cents of it will end up in the hands of the government one way or another.

That means more of your money goes to taxes than to housing, food or transportation.

And yet some people think we need to send more money to the government?
Those of us on the right would rather see government cut back on its spending in order to balance its budgets, as opposed to raising taxes.

As for your second post

However, I also believe that there are things that the government needs to address that only the government can address, such as social programs that truly benefit everyone, with no strings of religion or affiliation attached. And this makes tax a necessary burden.

Do you know that the Department of Health and Human services is already the largest in the goverment? Over 600 billion last year, nearly a 100 billion more than the defense department.
How much more should we spend on these social programs?

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: senseamp
I wonder if the people who believe that business taxes are consumer taxes also believe that government spending is consumer spending?

How can a govt entity be considered consumer spending? Business taxes are consumer taxes because the taxes are often pushed along in the cost of the sale.

You raise taxes on McDonalds and who pays? People see their value meals raised by 5 cents.

Government spends money on the people too.

Well thank you for pointing out the obvious. That doesnt mean it is "consumer" spending.

Just like business taxes are not consumer taxes.

 

[DerekP]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: senseamp
I wonder if the people who believe that business taxes are consumer taxes also believe that government spending is consumer spending?

How can a govt entity be considered consumer spending? Business taxes are consumer taxes because the taxes are often pushed along in the cost of the sale.

You raise taxes on McDonalds and who pays? People see their value meals raised by 5 cents.

This to me makes it rather obvious then where the money is flowing. Business is in the position to protect their profit no matter what, because they can just pass on the costs as they need to.