Illinois at it again: state will attempt to use pandemic to cover up decades of financial mismanagement

[Jhhnn]

I get more the sense that as the total collapse and failure of federal response to this crisis becomes more obvious people are going to be looking for someone else to blame. If the states were already terrible before Trump’s incompetence then maybe they can convince themselves it wasn’t his fault after all.

Trump & the GOP shrank the size of the federal govt down to the size that Covid-19 could drown it in the bath tub. And now they need to divert attention away from the consequences of their policy. Quick! Find somebody to attack!

 

[dasherHampton]

Can you explain why you think this would be the best policy outcome for the health and welfare of the United States?

If the details of Illinois finance/budget of the past few decades were examined by outside observers we citizens of the state might finally get the truth for once. For one fucking time.

The truth: something that has been in very short supply for a while now. I think we deserve it.

But again - why are you expecting me to fix this? Can I not talk about this mess without a miraculous plan to solve everything?

 

[fskimospy]

If the details of Illinois finance/budget of the past few decades were examined by outside observers we citizens of the state might finally get the truth for once. For one fucking time.

The truth: something that has been in very short supply for a while now. I think we deserve it.

What documents do you really think would come to light in a state bankruptcy proceeding that can otherwise be covered up?

Also, you realize states declaring bankruptcy is unconstitutional, right?

But again - why are you expecting me to fix this? Can I not talk about this mess without a miraculous plan to solve everything?

To be clear, I don’t expect you to actually fix it. What I’m trying to get you to see is that this outcome is both illegal and would likely be catastrophic for Illinois and the United States as a whole on multiple levels so we shouldn’t do it.

Things like this are usually people having an emotional response where they want to see people punished for their misdeeds. Economics is not a morality play though.

 

[Moonbeam]

I get more the sense that as the total collapse and failure of federal response to this crisis becomes more obvious people are going to be looking for someone else to blame. If the states were already terrible before Trump’s incompetence then maybe they can convince themselves it wasn’t his fault after all.

Yes, I think that is a very likely description of what is happening on the outside. I am stating that why I tthink they have that need or motivation to look for someone else to blame. Blame is what made us hate ourselves and what we do to others to pretend we aren't feeling that guilt. You may notice I got a lawn mower response to my original comment. 'It's not him that is defending, it's me.' He sees me as defending because he projects his guilt, assuming I feel it too. I am not defending anything. He just needs to say the ones fucked over are not him but 'over there' but I know it was me who got fucked. He is afraid to see that because he's afraid to feel, first his rage at those who fucked him and secondly, his grief at the loss of his real self. Everything he fears has already happened because he bought the lie there was something wrong with him. I know there isn't and the real kicker is that saying so will make him hate me.

 

[pete6032]

What exactly do you think the solution should be?

This thread is not about solutions, its about how awful he thinks democrats are. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Greenman]

Can you explain why you think this would be the best policy outcome for the health and welfare of the United States?

Isn't it every bit as valid to ask why years of mismanagement should be ignored? Isn't it valid to ask where the lucrative compensation and retirement packages came from? Did the taxpayers have any say in how that system was operated?
This is a case of government becoming malignant. Decisions were made that benefit government, not the governed. Now the solution appears to be the rest of the nation paying the bill, without oversight, without a say in how the money is spent, without a question being asked. That's not good enough. I'll take a hit on my taxes to help, but the folks I'm helping need to take a hit as well.

 

[BoomerD]

Always. Who knew that maximizing shareholder value meant the looting of America, huh?

Who realized it could be done so damned easily?

 

[fskimospy]

Isn't it every bit as valid to ask why years of mismanagement should be ignored? Isn't it valid to ask where the lucrative compensation and retirement packages came from? Did the taxpayers have any say in how that system was operated?

Sure but I’m not sure how that relates to trying and force an unconstitutional bankruptcy on Illinois during a national economic crisis.

I’m all for additional oversight and transparency but it’s kind of hard for me to believe conservatives are arguing this in good faith after fighting so hard against it for the finance industry.

This is a case of government becoming malignant. Decisions were made that benefit government, not the governed. Now the solution appears to be the rest of the nation paying the bill, without oversight, without a say in how the money is spent, without a question being asked. That's not good enough. I'll take a hit on my taxes to help, but the folks I'm helping need to take a hit as well.

Illinois should not have their pension system bailed out but they should have their COVID related tax losses made good by the federal government with no strings attached, the same as every state.

If conservatives aren’t going to bother to regulate bailout recipients they actually have jurisdiction over (finance) I’m not interested in their arguments about how to regulate recipients that are sovereign entities.

 

[Greenman]

Sure but I’m not sure how that relates to trying and force an unconstitutional bankruptcy on Illinois during a national economic crisis.

I’m all for additional oversight and transparency but it’s kind of hard for me to believe conservatives are arguing this in good faith after fighting so hard against it for the finance industry.


Illinois should not have their pension system bailed out but they should have their COVID related tax losses made good by the federal government with no strings attached, the same as every state.

If conservatives aren’t going to bother to regulate bailout recipients they actually have jurisdiction over (finance) I’m not interested in their arguments about how to regulate recipients that are sovereign entities.

You keep saying conservatives, I'm not conservatives, I don't speak for them, I don't pretend to be their spokesmen or leader. I represent myself only.

 

[fskimospy]

You keep saying conservatives, I'm not conservatives, I don't speak for them, I don't pretend to be their spokesmen or leader. I represent myself only.

Well the people you generally support politically as far as I can tell want to decrease oversight and regulation of financial entities who got a much larger bailout than anything Illinois is looking for, due entirely to their own greed and incompetence while Illinois is only partially due to their own greed and incompetence. (Can’t really blame them for the virus)

Regardless, Illinois should be left to figure out its own pension situation. This will inevitably mean cutting pensions for people and new taxes. Doesn’t change the fact that state bankruptcy is unconstitutional and the federal government attempting to use this crisis to force it or something like it is a terrible idea.

 

[K1052]

Going to be amazing to watch conservatives cause the next Great Depression because they refuse to prop up states, counties, and cities like they do banks and other large corporate concerns because socialism.

 

[boomerang]

It's a great time to be producing paper for our currency.

Who's likeness should we put on the 20 billion dollar bills that will have to be printed when inflation gets us to Venezuelan levels?

 

[Moonbeam]

Well the people you generally support politically as far as I can tell want to decrease oversight and regulation of financial entities who got a much larger bailout than anything Illinois is looking for, due entirely to their own greed and incompetence while Illinois is only partially due to their own greed and incompetence. (Can’t really blame them for the virus)

Regardless, Illinois should be left to figure out its own pension situation. This will inevitably mean cutting pensions for people and new taxes. Doesn’t change the fact that state bankruptcy is unconstitutional and the federal government attempting to use this crisis to force it or something like it is a terrible idea.

See, this is where thinking logically about an answer to problems and emoting moral outrage about the fact that they exist and shouldn't yield differences in how one person vs the next person reacts to a political situation. I'm all for the moral outrage but only as a driver for real world realistic solutions rather than diatribes and rants.

In my opinion, the difference lies in hope vs hopelessness. You have enormous confidence in the power of reason because you have learned to use it as a weapon to find comprehensive solutions. Seems like taking real personal responsibility to me.

Psychopaths and sociopaths and people so damaged they care nothing for other people will gravitate and take over any organization, political or not, if it can turn them a profit. The Democratic Machine of Chicago is no exception. Once a tick has attached itself to a host and is feeding it won't voluntarily let go.

 

[soulcougher73]

You keep saying conservatives, I'm not conservatives, I don't speak for them, I don't pretend to be their spokesmen or leader. I represent myself only.

But everything you say, every other conservative says as well. What should we draw from that conclusion?

 

[fskimospy]

See, this is where thinking logically about an answer to problems and emoting moral outrage about the fact that they exist and shouldn't yield differences in how one person vs the next person reacts to a political situation. I'm all for the moral outrage but only as a driver for real world realistic solutions rather than diatribes and rants.

In my opinion, the difference lies in hope vs hopelessness. You have enormous confidence in the power of reason because you have learned to use it as a weapon to find comprehensive solutions. Seems like taking real personal responsibility to me.

Psychopaths and sociopaths and people so damaged they care nothing for other people will gravitate and take over any organization, political or not, if it can turn them a profit. The Democratic Machine of Chicago is no exception. Once a tick has attached itself to a host and is feeding it won't voluntarily let go.

I mean I live in New York, home of some of the most comically huge corruption imaginable. (Cue articles on MTA construction costs)

In my experience tearing things down to build anew is often a very emotionally satisfying experience for those whose lives it doesn’t ruin and those it doesn’t kill. I wish people would think more as to how much suffering by others their own satisfaction is worth.

 

[hal2kilo]

This thread is not about solutions, its about how awful he thinks democrats are. Nothing more, nothing less.

Which is funny since both Republicans and Democrats have taken turns bankrupting the state. Hell, I voted for Jim Thompson (R) when I lived in Chicago. He ended up doing jail time. It's just one F'd up state that never wanted to be financially responsible for purely political reasons. Yea, this is a real bothsides.

 

[shortylickens]

The residents of Illinois have the same problem as most of America. They keep electing the same assholes over and over again expecting things to get better.