Illegal Immigration / Social Security

[EagleKeeper]

We know that the illegals fall into two categories.

• Previously legal
• Illegal from day 1

Those that were previously legal may have SS numbers and pay legally into the SS system

Those that are pure illegal; utilize false SS#s of some type or another when required.
These can be stolen, fudged, borrowed, etc.

Those that are using false #s pay into the system and receive nothing back; $$ going into a general account

If those who are illegal (both types) were made legal; it can generate a large impact in the near future of requesting SS benefits.

there are all these arguments on legalizing illegals that are already here.

I can see removing the stigma (I do not like it though) but pull the legal economic incentives out from under them.

1) Legal resident only - not eligible for US citizenship.
2) Not able to collect any SS# retirement benefits for a set period of quarters
3) Not able to collect any SS# type benefits until paid in for a certain number of quarters.

#2 and #3 ensure that the existing SS benefit package will not get overloaded by a flood of ex-illegals.

while #1 may seem unfair; the illegals are being granted legal status for being here and able to work; yet not rewarded by advancing to the head of the immigration line in terms of citizenship.
Many legal residents have no real desire to vote, so we are not creating a underclass.


Above thinking was triggered by this

 

[nanette1985]

We know that the illegals fall into two categories.


[*]Previously legal
[*]Illegal from day 1

Just curious what previously legal means?

 

[K1052]

Many legal residents have no real desire to vote, so we are not creating a underclass.

The burden of proof would be on you to demonstrate that is the case. I am highly dubious.

Not allowing them into the front of the line isn't the same thing as saying they can never enter the line.

 

[CrackRabbit]

The burden of proof would be on you to demonstrate that is the case. I am highly dubious.

Not allowing them into the front of the line isn't the same thing as saying they can never enter the line.

I like EK's first idea on this, but you do have a point.
What type of impediment should be in place to discourage illegal immigration but at the same time not completely bar those who are here (especially those who had no choice in the matter) from achieving citizenship one day.

 

[DaveSimmons]

I can certainly see reducing much or all of the SS credit they might get for contributions made while illegal.

I can also see the point of giving them stricter eligibility requirements for SS, disability, medicare if they were illegal at one time, as punishment.

Other than that, having some sort of "guest worker" legal residency status has been discussed in the past and I can see making illegals start out there.

I'm not convinced we need to permanently deny them any route to citizenship. Some of them might make better citizens than people who take their citizenship for granted.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Just curious what previously legal means?

Those that come into the country legitimately as students, workers, etc.
They can be issued SS# and are allowed to work while in country.

I'm not convinced we need to permanently deny them any route to citizenship. Some of them might make better citizens than people who take their citizenship for granted.

I agree that we have citizens taht do not deserve that label.

However, those thaat came in and deliberately broke the law should not be rewarded.
Potentially for those that came in as a child with parents might be allowed to .

 

[EagleKeeper]

Many legal residents have no real desire to vote, so we are not creating a underclass.

The burden of proof would be on you to demonstrate that is the case. I am highly dubious.

Not allowing them into the front of the line isn't the same thing as saying they can never enter the line..

While it may not be scientific, I have 6 inlaws that are here as legal residents.
Only two have applied for citizenship in 30 years.

Also have noticed in when living in Vegas and San Diego.

As long as a green card can sponsor; there is no real desire to jump through the hoops required for citizenship.

Part may also be educational level. the higher the education; the more that seem to want the right to vote.

There may be studies out there on this; are the results biased by the sponsor? who knows - many times studies are implemented to prove a point rather than just obtain data for anyone to crunch and interpret.

 

[SMOGZINN]

while #1 may seem unfair; the illegals are being granted legal status for being here and able to work; yet not rewarded by advancing to the head of the immigration line in terms of citizenship.
Many legal residents have no real desire to vote, so we are not creating a underclass.

You are most certainly creating a underclass. whether they want to vote or not does not matter, it is the ability to vote when needed that is important. With out that you have created a class of people that it is easy for politicians to abuse since they have no political capital.


What is wrong with just letting them be citizens? It is what has worked for us though every other wave of immigration.

 

[EagleKeeper]

You are most certainly creating a underclass. whether they want to vote or not does not matter, it is the ability to vote when needed that is important. With out that you have created a class of people that it is easy for politicians to abuse since they have no political capital.


What is wrong with just letting them be citizens? It is what has worked for us though every other wave of immigration.

It is because they came here deliberately flaunting the rules for immigration.

They should not be excessively rewarded.
Grant them legal stats with some penalties/punishment.

Do not reward them for their legal activities; If they want US citizenship itself; then they can go to the end of the line fort heir home country of citizenship and petition for full legal entry.

 

[SMOGZINN]

It is because they came here deliberately flaunting the rules for immigration.

They should not be excessively rewarded.
Grant them legal stats with some penalties/punishment.

Do not reward them for their legal activities; If they want US citizenship itself; then they can go to the end of the line fort heir home country of citizenship and petition for full legal entry.

This sounds a whole like cutting off our nose to spite our face. I don't see any real advantage to punishing them from coming here illegally. It is not going to act as a deterrent, they are already here, and keep coming here no matter what we do. So, what exactly is the point?

 

[EagleKeeper]

This sounds a whole like cutting off our nose to spite our face. I don't see any real advantage to punishing them from coming here illegally. It is not going to act as a deterrent, they are already here, and keep coming here no matter what we do. So, what exactly is the point?

I do not want to over reward them for coming here illegally.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I do not want to over reward them for coming here illegally.

See, US Citizenship is not a reward, it is what we expect you to do if you are going to stay and work in the US.

 

[Dirigible]

If we truly cared about illegal immigration, we could do a much better job of stopping it. I don't believe we care much. We care enough to make theater at the border. But employers love the cheap labor, and I don't believe we're doing much on that front.

As long as we as a society have decided to turn a blind eye and take advantage of the situation, I can't support penalizing the illegals.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

IMO, the only thing illegal about immigrants is the law.

 

[EagleKeeper]

See, US Citizenship is not a reward, it is what we expect you to do if you are going to stay and work in the US.

Many consider it to be the brass ring.
We do not demand that they become citizens. It is a reward for dancing through so many hoops.