if you've been anywhere close to present these last few yars, you realize.

zanejohnson

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2002
7,054
17
81
there is absolutely a grab going on, a power grab in the usa, to either.. a. make this a totally restricted nation, where personal freedoms are the cost.
or.
b. total enslavement of anyone who goes against this new ideal..


so..

should we??

be completetly complacent.. i mean after all, at the rate it is going, it wont greatly effect us, in our lifetimes.. we may die in a time when everything is restricted, to the medicine you can consume, the amount of soft drink you can consume, the tobacco/thc products you intend to consume...etc..

should we be fighting this??? i mean, everything in consideration.. sure, these laws may promote a longer lifetime, may promote a healthier lifesytle.. but do we leave that up to the powers that be??? or should be make those decisions ourselves and letting darwin's theory take care of the rest?
 

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
3,535
1
0
There are a lot of ignorant jackasses that don't know or care about much of anything... But there are people that do care as well.

I wouldn't worry too much.
 

zanejohnson

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2002
7,054
17
81
There are a lot of ignorant jackasses that don't know or care about much of anything... But there are people that do care as well.

I wouldn't worry too much.

this is an absolutely mathematical answer, and i gotta agree with this..

there are alot of people in the world.. and we know.. if it REALLY got bad, people like me would rise up..

and well.. it's not there yet, and when i'm old.. i'll be to old to rise up, and it will be up to the young people then..

and that's right.. the old people in my lifetime.. argue about some stupid stuff.. like racism?? and they try to sell daughters for goats and land.. yeah.. the world just changes.. we need to evolve with it, or become one of darwin's statistics..

i think that is right.

thank you sir.
 

wirednuts

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2007
7,121
4
0
op, the system has you targeted. you called out the elephant in the room. nice to meet ya and nice knowing you. btw, can i have your girlfriend?
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
I'm sorry, but what on Earth are you talking about? Do you live in New York? Because that's the only location I can think of where they're working on restricting tobacco and soft drinks, and possibly medicine. In which case, you have the power to vote in different leadership. Otherwise, I'd say you were coming off as a wee bit paranoid about the current state of things.
 

zanejohnson

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2002
7,054
17
81
I'm sorry, but what on Earth are you talking about? Do you live in New York? Because that's the only location I can think of where they're working on restricting tobacco and soft drinks, and possibly medicine. In which case, you have the power to vote in different leadership. Otherwise, I'd say you were coming off as a wee bit paranoid about the current state of things.

that's what i was wondering, if i was just feeling paranoid, or if it's just the way the world and our nation is evolving..

and no, the medicine crackdown is nationwide, that's why you have to show ID now to fill a prescription at the pharmacy, medical records are not accessible at the pharmacys..

the gun grab is definitely right in my face.. i live in texas.. alot of people talking crazy around here.. but they are hillbillies.. the gun laws dont really effect me..
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
Of course there is in the USA. This is the nature of all entities, government or other. They exist to expand. Government does it by growing and legislating.

Although new landmark legislation comes down from time to time increasing freedoms, it seems to me there are more laws limiting them.

At least you don't live in England.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
38,327
31,240
136
The fact the OP thinks the meteoric rise of Octopus Grabbus has been the "last few years" I know where this is going.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,267
126
The fact the OP thinks the meteoric rise of Octopus Grabbus has been the "last few years" I know where this is going.

So I take it that you are OK with citizens being targeted with no mechanism for accountability or indeed for review before the fact?

Hail Caesar! I know where you are going.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,250
9,439
136
and well.. it's not there yet, and when i'm old.. i'll be to old to rise up, and it will be up to the young people then..

Younger generations are increasingly co-opted by the hand that feeds them. IMO, that makes them far less likely than the older generations to desire freedom or measure it worth taking action for. This is conditioning. They won't exactly miss what they've never had. Government ownership will appear normal to them, they won't know what us "old cranks" are getting worked up over, maybe Grandpa missed his Xanax prescription this morning.

Your argument in the OP is akin to what I have been speaking of. That America is on the path to become a North Korean regime. There are three methods of shattering the power structure keeping us on this path.

  1. More, successful, political parties.
  2. State secession.
  3. Civil Unrest.
While you speak vaguely of the third option, and it is the most certain and undeniable to occur, it would be for the benefit of our children to do _EVERYTHING_ in our power to seek out the first two choices - in attempt to ward off our last resort. A mad max world is one in which many children die, where food is scarce and you never know if the next stranger is going to put a bullet in you. It's sheer anarchy, which is the last thing we want.


To that end, I want more parties. I want state's rights. I will work for those.

The first step for me, with Republican origin, is to support the "Tea Party" and any other notion to oppose compromise. To ensure gridlock in Washington. To hold them up and prevent them from increasing power. Secondly, I want the Republican party to lose elections, the consequences of which will shatter them. Already big government proponents, such as Karl Rove are screaming out in pain. This must continue, we must carve up and destroy his party. Down with the Neocons.

You see, without their dancing partner to balance incumbency with, the Democrat Party would begin to face pressure. It might very well feel powerful enough to contest themselves in primaries, to seek out their own "Tea Party. This, absent a Republican Party, would allow a true opposition party to contest the national stage. In short, if the Republican Party falls, I believe the Democrat Party would follow.

To give rise the fresh ideas and new parties, I want this to happen. I'm voting third party.


If we cannot defeat the GOP, then I have thought of one other non violent solution - though it has its risk for violence. We campaign for state's rights, for secession. The theme is simple, we give people what they want. The South gets guns and Sunday off, the Northeast gets universal health care paid for by the government. The two do this separately, without one another to prevent progress or threaten the other. In short we bypass the impasse in Washington and start getting things done.

As we have been divided and conquered by our two incumbent parties, so too may we divide them. We speak to the human condition, of selfish desire to seek power - and we offer it to them. To grant them everything they want, it's just that they won't cover the whole nation. That is the price they must pay for victory.

We go to the state capitols and offer them this deal, to get them to do what must be done to ensure a transition. The most extreme states agree to this, and get the ball rolling. Their lemmings will follow and soon we would see a two state solution. This has a similar effect as multiple parties, in that without an opponent new opposition will form. The two state solution gives birth to four political parties in this nation.

Either way, the power structure that once held us captive would collapse. It may not guarantee the protection of individual rights and self determination - but it's still a chance. It's hope. That's better than the guarantee we have today, of becoming North Korea.
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,452
2
0
Younger generations are increasingly co-opted by the hand that feeds them. IMO, that makes them far less likely than the older generations to desire freedom or measure it worth taking action for. This is conditioning. They won't exactly miss what they've never had. Government ownership will appear normal to them, they won't know what us "old cranks" are getting worked up over, maybe Grandpa missed his Xanax prescription this morning.

Your argument in the OP is akin to what I have been speaking of. That America is on the path to become a North Korean regime. There are three methods of shattering the power structure keeping us on this path.

  1. More, successful, political parties.
  2. State secession.
  3. Civil Unrest.
While you speak vaguely of the third option, and it is the most certain and undeniable to occur, it would be for the benefit of our children to do _EVERYTHING_ in our power to seek out the first two choices - in attempt to ward off our last resort. A mad max world is one in which many children die, where food is scarce and you never know if the next stranger is going to put a bullet in you. It's sheer anarchy, which is the last thing we want.


To that end, I want more parties. I want state's rights. I will work for those.

The first step for me, with Republican origin, is to support the "Tea Party" and any other notion to oppose compromise. To ensure gridlock in Washington. To hold them up and prevent them from increasing power. Secondly, I want the Republican party to lose elections, the consequences of which will shatter them. Already big government proponents, such as Karl Rove are screaming out in pain. This must continue, we must carve up and destroy his party. Down with the Neocons.

You see, without their dancing partner to balance incumbency with, the Democrat Party would begin to face pressure. It might very well feel powerful enough to contest themselves in primaries, to seek out their own "Tea Party. This, absent a Republican Party, would allow a true opposition party to contest the national stage. In short, if the Republican Party falls, I believe the Democrat Party would follow.

To give rise the fresh ideas and new parties, I want this to happen. I'm voting third party.


If we cannot defeat the GOP, then I have thought of one other non violent solution - though it has its risk for violence. We campaign for state's rights, for secession. The theme is simple, we give people what they want. The South gets guns and Sunday off, the Northeast gets universal health care paid for by the government. The two do this separately, without one another to prevent progress or threaten the other. In short we bypass the impasse in Washington and start getting things done.

As we have been divided and conquered by our two incumbent parties, so too may we divide them. We speak to the human condition, of selfish desire to seek power - and we offer it to them. To grant them everything they want, it's just that they won't cover the whole nation. That is the price they must pay for victory.

We go to the state capitols and offer them this deal, to get them to do what must be done to ensure a transition. The most extreme states agree to this, and get the ball rolling. Their lemmings will follow and soon we would see a two state solution. This has a similar effect as multiple parties, in that without an opponent new opposition will form. The two state solution gives birth to four political parties in this nation.

Either way, the power structure that once held us captive would collapse. It may not guarantee the protection of individual rights and self determination - but it's still a chance. It's hope. That's better than the guarantee we have today, of becoming North Korea.

good post.

I've begun voting third party as well. Typically Libertarian. I hate to say it but Civil Unrest WILL occur. Maybe not on the scale that Dave is always talking about, in terms of a full on revolution, but there will be a nasty period.

State will restrict one too many rights
citizens will revolt, violently with riots, possibly assassination attempts on polititians.
state will feel threatened and attempt to clench even harder
citizens will revolt
...
however many cycles is necessary

scary to think about but they're getting close to the edge. They're attempting to errode the rights slowly. . . . frog in a boiling pot analogy. That way there is no one event that would set the populace off as a whole..
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,670
6,246
126
"Last few years"?

Uhh, sure. :rolleyes:

Much of what is happening today is a direct result of 9/11, as far as Drone Strikes/US Citizens Right to a Fair Trial and Privacy Rights are directly concerned. As for Tobacco/Medicine/Food regulation/restriction, these have been going on from decades to over a century.
 

Angry Irishman

Golden Member
Jan 25, 2010
1,883
1
81
"Last few years"?

Uhh, sure. :rolleyes:

Much of what is happening today is a direct result of 9/11, as far as Drone Strikes/US Citizens Right to a Fair Trial and Privacy Rights are directly concerned. As for Tobacco/Medicine/Food regulation/restriction, these have been going on from decades to over a century.

The large majority of what folks should be concerned about stems from 9/11. Slow but steady erosion of civil liberties is at play. It's not a conspiracy theory it not wearing a foil hat paranoia.

Do some home work. Look at the laws that have passed and what is being cooked up. The fact that people can stand by and not even have the least bit of skepticism is very mind boggling to me.

The federal govt is using the excuse of a war against terrorism to continue to erode rights further and is already in the business of branding American citizens terrorists while reacting without due process. Everything requires "immediate action" and is for the protection of the citizen....right.:rolleyes:

There is a Constitution for a reason...some people really need to read it. I'm really not sure why anyone regardless of party affiliation would find this basic American ideal of demanding a government kept in check to be so taboo.
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,670
6,246
126
The large majority of what folks should be concerned about stems from 9/11. Slow but steady erosion of civil liberties is at play. It's not a conspiracy theory it not wearing a foil hat paranoia.

Do some home work. Look at the laws that have passed and what is being cooked up. The fact that people can stand by and not even have the least bit of skepticism is very mind boggling to me.

The federal govt is using the excuse of a ware against terrorism to continue to erode rights further and is already in the business of branding American citizens terrorists while reacting without due process. Everything requires "immediate action" and is for the protection of the citizen....right.:rolleyes:

There is a Constitution for a reason...some people really need to read it.

Ya, that's what I said. OP is feeding the Obama paranoia, as far as I can tell.
 

Angry Irishman

Golden Member
Jan 25, 2010
1,883
1
81
Ya, that's what I said. OP is feeding the Obama paranoia, as far as I can tell.

Obama certainly does have an agenda; however, this downward spiral of unchecked government started well before his administration.

I'd start by being very concerned about the Dept of Homeland Security. This agency is largely unchecked and receives a shitload of funding...for our protection.
 
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Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,872
4,858
136
OP I want you to get out of your house, change license plats on your car and drive for the nearest rural country where you can carve out a modest living moon shining.

The drones are coming for you.

RUN!
 

Angry Irishman

Golden Member
Jan 25, 2010
1,883
1
81
OP I want you to get out of your house, change license plats on your car and drive for the nearest rural country where you can carve out a modest living moon shining.

The drones are coming for you.

RUN!

You have no problems with the laws passed since 9/11? Are you that trusting?
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,842
4,785
146
Fatties are gonna be fatties. This whole concept of changing their culture is laughable - and it won't happen. Nor should it based on government involvement. In particular, this is makes me laugh about Michelle Obongo. Trying to legislate what should be in a kid's lunch box. And I somewhat understand, yes, we do need healthier options. Does that mean you take away everything else and you have football players eating brocolli and fruit for lunch? Fuck no. Big guys NEED those excessive calories to build the bodies they need for their aspirations. In the end it all needs to come down to personal choice. The difference is that their healthcare costs should go through the roof to correspond to their risks/surgery costs. We can see the risk by their belly size, they should be paying based on their belly size. That is the only true inspiration for healthy living. MONEY. It drives you. It drives the economy.

Can't afford it? Sorry, I know all you morality people will attack me, but I say let them rot on the sidewalk. It's funny, you let shitloads of Africans rot - alongside plenty of middle eastern people kill themselves over religion, yet you have some kind of awe inspiration of everyone paying for fatass mistakes in life that they refuse to take responsibility for. You deem it acceptable as you shut your eyes and say "They aren't in my country" so they apparently don't matter. You're cute. Now kill yourselves for that lack of logic reasoning.

Mind you, this is coming from a former fatass that lost 150lbs - and I don't smoke, yet I say let them, more tax dollars for their loss of life? Fuck yeah.
 

Abraxas

Golden Member
Oct 26, 2004
1,056
0
0
What precisely do you feel has changed? What you describe as a sudden power grab isn't new, it isn't even unusual. The only difference now is the government is at least transparent enough we can at least more readily see the effects. Thousand of American citizens were rounded up and imprisoned during WWII in internment camps, domestic surveillance on people who thought the wrong things has been government policy in the name of stopping communism, the US government conducted disease experiments on US citizens through the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment into the 1970s, etc. With the long history of incidents like these, do you honestly think the US government wouldn't kill someone they felt they needed to kill for national security ten years ago or twenty or thirty?

This erosion some of you see is merely a semi-formalization of what has been and what likely always will be the the policy of every world power on the planet, at least for the foreseeable future.