If you're an atheist should you not at least believe in aliens?

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: Vic
Really? And how are aliens, flitting through the sky in their faster-than-light flying saucers, any less "magical" than God?

Who said anything about flying saucers? They could be a civilization that, like us, can't even get out of out own solar system. Hell, they could still be the equivalent of cavemen or a frickin cow like creature. Belief that life exists off this planet != belief in an advanced-intergalactic traveling-super race of aliens... not that that couldn't be true.

Also, you seem to be ignoring the hordes of evidence we have of the evolutionary process that gave us the myriad of life we have today. A process which could very easily take place on a planet with conditions similar to Earth. We have lots of physical proof. There is no physical proof of God. Period. Therefore, it doesn't require the same level of faith. Period.

 

[msparish]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: msparish

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: Vic
Thank you for proving that the believing in aliens and God requires the exact same circular logic.
We exist, so aliens must exist.
-or-
We exist, so God must exist because he created us.

It. is. the. same.

Wow... weak logic there. The second is based on a belief in a "magical" being, the first just requires belief that life similar to what we know exists exists elsewhere. Not. The. Same.

Really? And how are aliens, flitting through the sky in their faster-than-light flying saucers, any less "magical" than God?

Who said the aliens are flying around in their saucers?

Originally posted by: CVSiN
Actually there is PLENTY of proof.. its just all classified beyond top secret by our so called leaders..

Governments dont spend billions on things like "project blue book" if they dont at least suspect things are real... and the findings even though declassified now were so edited for national security that there could be anything written in the briefs.

and what about our own professional sane... Military Pilots and Commercial pilots that see things and radar stations that confirm only to have the governement come and tell you "you didnt see anything"

bullcrap..

soemthing did happen at roswell.. area 51 is more than just a skunkworks aircraft and wep prooving ground...
and project bluebook and other programs have existed.

we are definatly not alone.

To clarify my previous statement, the existence of aliens does not imply the existence of flying saucers. The probability of aliens is much higher than that of a God. Why? We know life is possible...we have proof of it. We have no proof supporting a god.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: Vic
Thank you for proving that the believing in aliens and God requires the exact same circular logic.
We exist, so aliens must exist.
-or-
We exist, so God must exist because he created us.

It. is. the. same.

Wow... weak logic there. The second is based on a belief in a "magical" being, the first just requires belief that life similar to what we know exists exists elsewhere. Not. The. Same.

Really? And how are aliens, flitting through the sky in their faster-than-light flying saucers, any less "magical" than God?

Alien lifeform is a theory, no more, no less. And until someone can produce concrete proof, that is the way it will stay. But ask a religious person if their God is a "theory." I defintiely don't have "faith" in aliens.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: Vic
Really? And how are aliens, flitting through the sky in their faster-than-light flying saucers, any less "magical" than God?

Who said anything about flying saucers? They could be a civilization that, like us, can't even get out of out own solar system. Hell, they could still be the equivalent of cavemen or a frickin cow like creature. Belief that life exists off this planet != belief in an advanced-intergalactic traveling-super race of aliens... not that that couldn't be true.

Also, you seem to be ignoring the hordes of evidence we have of the evolutionary process that gave us the myriad of life we have today. A process which could very easily take place on a planet with conditions similar to Earth. We have lots of physical proof. There is no physical proof of God. Period. Therefore, it doesn't require the same level of faith. Period.

The bolded is all I need here. The fact that you can easily leap from one to the other proves my point.

Evolution does not disprove the possibility of existence of God, so I'm not "ignoring" anything there because it's not relevant. The Catholic church teaches evolution, and they originally developed the theory of the big bang (Father Georges-Henri Lemaître originally developed the theory of the "primevial atom," which eventually became the big bang theory -- Hubble discovered the red shift, not the big bang).

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: msparish

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: msparish

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: Vic
Thank you for proving that the believing in aliens and God requires the exact same circular logic.
We exist, so aliens must exist.
-or-
We exist, so God must exist because he created us.

It. is. the. same.

Wow... weak logic there. The second is based on a belief in a "magical" being, the first just requires belief that life similar to what we know exists exists elsewhere. Not. The. Same.

Really? And how are aliens, flitting through the sky in their faster-than-light flying saucers, any less "magical" than God?

Who said the aliens are flying around in their saucers?

Originally posted by: CVSiN
Actually there is PLENTY of proof.. its just all classified beyond top secret by our so called leaders..

Governments dont spend billions on things like "project blue book" if they dont at least suspect things are real... and the findings even though declassified now were so edited for national security that there could be anything written in the briefs.

and what about our own professional sane... Military Pilots and Commercial pilots that see things and radar stations that confirm only to have the governement come and tell you "you didnt see anything"

bullcrap..

soemthing did happen at roswell.. area 51 is more than just a skunkworks aircraft and wep prooving ground...
and project bluebook and other programs have existed.

we are definatly not alone.

To clarify my previous statement, the existence of aliens does not imply the existence of flying saucers. The probability of aliens is much higher than that of a God. Why? We know life is possible...we have proof of it. We have no proof supporting a god.

Let me repeat: the "proof" of alien life is exactly the same as the "proof" of God, i.e. "we exist, so _____ exists."

You people are fooling yourself by thinking otherwise.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: Vic
Thank you for proving that the believing in aliens and God requires the exact same circular logic.
We exist, so aliens must exist.
-or-
We exist, so God must exist because he created us.

It. is. the. same.

Wow... weak logic there. The second is based on a belief in a "magical" being, the first just requires belief that life similar to what we know exists exists elsewhere. Not. The. Same.

Really? And how are aliens, flitting through the sky in their faster-than-light flying saucers, any less "magical" than God?

Alien lifeform is a theory, no more, no less. And until someone can produce concrete proof, that is the way it will stay. But ask a religious person if their God is a "theory." I defintiely don't have "faith" in aliens.

pfffft.... you know, Jack, I much rather people who know that they have no proof for their beliefs, rather than people who trick themselves into thinking that they have proof when they do not.
In a way, belief in aliens is a regression in human thought. Men once thought their gods were real too, and thought their "science" (for what it was at the time) proved them so, then they realized they had no proof and turned to faith. Now people who believe in aliens think that their science proves them to be real. One step forward, 2 steps back.

 

[msparish]

Originally posted by: Vic
Let me repeat: the "proof" alien life is exactly the same as the "proof" of God, i.e. "we exist, so _____ exists."

You people are fooling yourself by thinking otherwise.

You are fooling yourself. I never said aliens exist either...just that it is much more likely. All I said is that we have proof that alien life is possible. No such proof for the possibility of a god.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: msparish

Originally posted by: Vic
Let me repeat: the "proof" alien life is exactly the same as the "proof" of God, i.e. "we exist, so _____ exists."

You people are fooling yourself by thinking otherwise.

You are fooling yourself. I never said aliens exist either...just that it is much more likely. All I said is that we have proof that alien life is possible. No such proof for the possibility of a god.

Terrible logic. You cannot assume greater likelihood for aliens over god when both are equally unlikely (and equally likely as well). I will repeat: they. are. the. same.

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: Vic
Let me repeat: the "proof" alien life is exactly the same as the "proof" of God, i.e. "we exist, so _____ exists."

You people are fooling yourself by thinking otherwise.

Please... you said it requires the same "type and level" of faith. Total BS. Belief in God requires belief in a magical being. Belief that life may have occurred on another planet simply requires a belief in science. One has physical proof for the concept, one does not. Not even remotely close to being the same "type and level".

 

[msparish]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: msparish

Originally posted by: Vic
Let me repeat: the "proof" alien life is exactly the same as the "proof" of God, i.e. "we exist, so _____ exists."

You people are fooling yourself by thinking otherwise.

You are fooling yourself. I never said aliens exist either...just that it is much more likely. All I said is that we have proof that alien life is possible. No such proof for the possibility of a god.

Terrible logic. You cannot assume greater likelihood for aliens over god when both are equally unlikely (and equally likely as well). I will repeat: they. are. the. same.

Prove how they are equally likely and unlikely. I have evidence supporting my view, what is yours?

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: msparish

Originally posted by: Vic
Let me repeat: the "proof" alien life is exactly the same as the "proof" of God, i.e. "we exist, so _____ exists."

You people are fooling yourself by thinking otherwise.

You are fooling yourself. I never said aliens exist either...just that it is much more likely. All I said is that we have proof that alien life is possible. No such proof for the possibility of a god.

What proof? You have no proof, no more proof than the others do. You sound like a religious fanatic. btw I am not religious, and I do not believe in aliens.

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: msparish

Originally posted by: Vic
Let me repeat: the "proof" alien life is exactly the same as the "proof" of God, i.e. "we exist, so _____ exists."

You people are fooling yourself by thinking otherwise.

You are fooling yourself. I never said aliens exist either...just that it is much more likely. All I said is that we have proof that alien life is possible. No such proof for the possibility of a god.

Terrible logic. You cannot assume greater likelihood for aliens over god when both are equally unlikely (and equally likely as well). I will repeat: they. are. the. same.

Wow... you believe that God and alien life are equally likely? BTW, a belief in God does not preclude an belief in alien life.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: msparish

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: msparish

Originally posted by: Vic
Let me repeat: the "proof" alien life is exactly the same as the "proof" of God, i.e. "we exist, so _____ exists."

You people are fooling yourself by thinking otherwise.

You are fooling yourself. I never said aliens exist either...just that it is much more likely. All I said is that we have proof that alien life is possible. No such proof for the possibility of a god.

Terrible logic. You cannot assume greater likelihood for aliens over god when both are equally unlikely (and equally likely as well). I will repeat: they. are. the. same.

Prove how they are equally likely and unlikely. I have evidence supporting my view, what is yours?

Really? What evidence do you have besides the fact that life on earth exists?

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: msparish

Originally posted by: Vic
Let me repeat: the "proof" alien life is exactly the same as the "proof" of God, i.e. "we exist, so _____ exists."

You people are fooling yourself by thinking otherwise.

You are fooling yourself. I never said aliens exist either...just that it is much more likely. All I said is that we have proof that alien life is possible. No such proof for the possibility of a god.

Terrible logic. You cannot assume greater likelihood for aliens over god when both are equally unlikely (and equally likely as well). I will repeat: they. are. the. same.

Wow... you beleive that God and alien life are equally likely? BTW, a belief in God does not preclude an belief in alien life.

I do!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: msparish

Originally posted by: Vic
Let me repeat: the "proof" alien life is exactly the same as the "proof" of God, i.e. "we exist, so _____ exists."

You people are fooling yourself by thinking otherwise.

You are fooling yourself. I never said aliens exist either...just that it is much more likely. All I said is that we have proof that alien life is possible. No such proof for the possibility of a god.

Terrible logic. You cannot assume greater likelihood for aliens over god when both are equally unlikely (and equally likely as well). I will repeat: they. are. the. same.

Wow... you beleive that God and alien life are equally likely? BTW, a belief in God does not preclude an belief in alien life.

2 things that are equally unlikely are also equally likely.

 

[msparish]

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: msparish

Originally posted by: Vic
Let me repeat: the "proof" alien life is exactly the same as the "proof" of God, i.e. "we exist, so _____ exists."

You people are fooling yourself by thinking otherwise.

You are fooling yourself. I never said aliens exist either...just that it is much more likely. All I said is that we have proof that alien life is possible. No such proof for the possibility of a god.

What proof? You have no proof, no more proof than the others do. You sound like a religious fanatic. btw I am not religious, and I do not believe in aliens.

You are proof life is possible. If life is possible here, it is possible elsewhere. Note, I'm not saying that it is probable or that aliens exist, only that it is possible according to our scientific knowledge. We have no "proof of concept", so to speak, concerning a god.

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: Vic
2 things that are equally unlikely are alo equally likely.

So belief in science is = belief in magic? That's effectively what you are arguing now.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: Vic
2 things that are equally unlikely are alo equally likely.

So belief in science is = belief in magic? That's effectively what you are arguing now.

Oooh... nice straw man :roll:

Where's the scientific proof for aliens? Oops, there isn't any... <^>

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: Vic
2 things that are equally unlikely are alo equally likely.

So belief in science is = belief in magic? That's effectively what you are arguing now.

Oooh... nice straw man :roll:

Where's the scientific proof for aliens? Oops, there isn't any... <^>

It's not a straw man at all. We have proof of how life has evolved on this planet. Given the billions of galaxies out there, it's pretty easy to imagine the same process occurring on another planet. We have no proof of a god. None. Plus, god is essentially what we would call a "magical" being. So, in effect, in order for your statement to be true, the belief in a magical being must equal the likelyhood that a proven scientific process occurred somewhere else among the billions of planets in the universe.

Am I saying it doesn't require any faith? No. I'm saying it doesn't require the same "type and level"... which is what you stated.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Given that there are, what, 500,000,000,000 stars in just our galaxy and there are probably well more than 200,000,000,000 galaxies in the universe.

If you're an atheist, you usually dont just "believe" in things. You need some sort of proof.

Since there is no proof, or any reasonable evidence pointing towards it, I'd have to say absolutely not.

Circumstantial evidence for aliens is no different than circumstantial evidence for a deity.

The big bang. A missing link. Don't tell me atheists require more than circumstancial evidence.

There's plenty of evidence of a big bang-- just because you don't understand it doesn't make it circumstantial. For example, all of the galaxies in the universe are moving away from one another.

The "missing link" is really a straw man that creationists put up. So few fossils of soft animals and plants are preserved that links between very diffierent groups are hard to find.. yet they exist. There areexamples of perfect links between dinosaurs and birds, archaeopteryx and Hongshanornis longicresta . I think there is also one named after Confucious.

There are fossils preserving various stages of human evolution, and branched off species similar to our own as well.

Talkinig about a "missing link" is like a detective referring to a "missing clue". It's kind of an oxymoron.


Atheists can usually distinguish between belief and knowledge. It would be foolish to assume that because the odds are good, that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, but that doesn't mean that atheists can't believe that there are aliens whizzing around other stars and galaxies.

sue me, but I kind of see the big bang as evidence of a god

Well, it's your prerogative if you want to substitute belief for understanding.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: msparish

Originally posted by: Vic
Let me repeat: the "proof" alien life is exactly the same as the "proof" of God, i.e. "we exist, so _____ exists."

You people are fooling yourself by thinking otherwise.

You are fooling yourself. I never said aliens exist either...just that it is much more likely. All I said is that we have proof that alien life is possible. No such proof for the possibility of a god.

Terrible logic. You cannot assume greater likelihood for aliens over god when both are equally unlikely (and equally likely as well). I will repeat: they. are. the. same.

Wow... you beleive that God and alien life are equally likely? BTW, a belief in God does not preclude an belief in alien life.

2 things that are equally unlikely are also equally likely.

But in actuality, they're not equally likely or unlikely.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: msparish
You are proof life is possible. If life is possible here, it is possible elsewhere. Note, I'm not saying that it is probable or that aliens exist, only that it is possible according to our scientific knowledge. We have no "proof of concept", so to speak, concerning a god.

I don't consider this proof, merely an assumption or belief. By the same token I could say, "life is not possible anywhere but Earth, therefore it is not possible elsewhere". Would this then be proof that aliens do not exist?

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: So
Why? We have a sample population of ONE.

Ah yes. The primeval atom was a "sample population of one". The first amoeba to split on earth was a "sample population of one". The first fish to crawl onto dry land was a "sample population of one".

Given the gangbuster success of the previous sample populations of one, I don't see how can let that stop you.

Mathematically, would you say the probability is greater or less than 50%?

Mathematically, what are the chances the OP's brain can comprehend the existence of God? Nil.

Probabilities without even theoretical means to calculate them.

Carry on.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: Vic
2 things that are equally unlikely are alo equally likely.

So belief in science is = belief in magic? That's effectively what you are arguing now.

Oooh... nice straw man :roll:

Where's the scientific proof for aliens? Oops, there isn't any... <^>

It's not a straw man at all. We have proof of how life has evolved on this planet. Given the billions of galaxies out there, it's pretty easy to imagine the same process occurring on another planet. We have no proof of a god. None. Plus, god is essentially what we would call a "magical" being. So, in effect, in order for your statement to be true, the belief in a magical being must equal the likelyhood that a proven scientific process occurred somewhere else among the billions of planets in the universe.

Am I saying it doesn't require any faith? No. I'm saying it doesn't require the same "type and level"... which is what you stated.

Of course you're not a straw man. He was referring to your scarecrow of an argument.

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: ariafrost
Of course you're not a straw man. He was referring to your scarecrow of an argument.

You're welcome to jump in with something meaningful at any time.