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If you were writing a book on the history of the United States...

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
5,446
0
76
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
Well.. it was a Democracy from 1787 to 2000.
We have never been a democracy, we are a representative republic.
Correction, Constitutional Republic
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,294
1
76
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
Well.. it was a Democracy from 1787 to 2000.
We have never been a democracy, we are a representative republic.

democracy definition- 1.Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.



dictionary.com
 

MonstaThrilla

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2000
1,652
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An excellent book has already been written on the history of the United States. Its called "A People's History of the United States" by Howard Zinn. While history tends to look through the eyes of those in power and with prosperity, this book looks through the eyes of the vast masses who simply lived and died without anyone noticing. It takes a look at how Indians were treated under the conquistadors and settlers, how Africans were shipped across the Atlantic and put to work, how poor white indentured servants tried and usually failed at making it in America, etc. I've only been able to read the first few chapters so far. Its a ridiculously long book, and the newest paperback edition was published a few months ago and ends with the War on Afghanistan. It should be read by every American so that they can have a realistic understanding of how our country came to be.
 

TheBDB

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2002
3,176
0
0
Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
Well.. it was a Democracy from 1787 to 2000.
We have never been a democracy, we are a representative republic.

democracy definition- 1.Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.



dictionary.com
On a side note...that isn't the definition of democracy that was used back during the time of the founding fathers. They regarded democracy as more of "rule by the mob" and not something they wanted. They set up the Constitutional Republic specifically so they would retain power over the regular people.
 

konichiwa

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,077
1
0
Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
Well.. it was a Democracy from 1787 to 2000.
We have never been a democracy, we are a representative republic.

democracy definition- 1.Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.



dictionary.com
We are not a democracy. A democracy would require a vote of the people on every issue.

Dictionary.com misses the finer points of political definitions (as well as medical, scientific, etc). It is a dictionary, not a reference textbook.
 

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
5,446
0
76
Originally posted by: TheBDB
Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
Well.. it was a Democracy from 1787 to 2000.
We have never been a democracy, we are a representative republic.

democracy definition- 1.Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.



dictionary.com
On a side note...that isn't the definition of democracy that was used back during the time of the founding fathers. They regarded democracy as more of "rule by the mob" and not something they wanted. They set up the Constitutional Republic specifically so they would retain power over the regular people.

I hate to say this...but regular people are idiots. Things like ballot referendums etc....worst idea ever. Constitutional Republic...best idea ever.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,408
2
81
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
Well.. it was a Democracy from 1787 to 2000.
We have never been a democracy, we are a representative republic.
Correction, Constitutional Republic
Both of you like to quibble. The U.S. is a democracy. A Constitutional Republic and Republic are both types of democracies in fact they are the same term since adding "constitutional" is frivolous, since all nations have constitutions.


And "Representative republic" is a redundant term since "republic" by definition means "representative". I think conservatives, who themselves can't even define the terms of the debate, like to use these term to embarrass those who make casual use of the term "democracy."
 

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
5,446
0
76
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
Well.. it was a Democracy from 1787 to 2000.
We have never been a democracy, we are a representative republic.
Correction, Constitutional Republic
Both of you like to quibble. The U.S. is a democracy. A Constitutional Republic and Republic are both types of democracies in fact they are the same term since adding "constitutional" is frivolous, since all nations have constitutions.

1. Not all nations have constitutions.

2. Learn something about political science.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,408
2
81
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
Well.. it was a Democracy from 1787 to 2000.
We have never been a democracy, we are a representative republic.
Correction, Constitutional Republic
Both of you like to quibble. The U.S. is a democracy. A Constitutional Republic and Republic are both types of democracies in fact they are the same term since adding "constitutional" is frivolous, since all nations have constitutions.

1. Not all nations have constitutions.

2. Learn something about political science.

1. Show me one that does'nt.

2. Exaplain it then if you can. Or is this meant to try and embarress me in some way when you can't even understand the distinctions let alone explain them?
 

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
5,446
0
76
1. If you don't know that not all nations have constitutions, then thier is no point explaining concepts such as direct democracy and a constitutional republic. BTW, England for one.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,408
2
81
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
1. If you don't know that not all nations have constitutions, then thier is no point explaining concepts such as direct democracy and a constitutional republic. BTW, England for one.
Once again you quibble in your poor effort at definitions. Great Britan has a collection of statutes, judicial interpretations, conventions, laws and customs of parliament, common law principles and selective jurisprudence. The earliest constitutional document is the Magna Carta. Which is exactly what a consitituion is.

Websters: The system of fundamental laws and principles that prescribes the nature, functions, and limits of a government or another institution.
 

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
5,446
0
76
Didn't we already establish that the dictionary was the best political science reference?
 

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
5,446
0
76
Allright, I give up. The dictionary defenitions are good enough for the American Television audience.

Jeebus....
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,408
2
81
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Didn't we already establish that the dictionary was the best political science reference?
Hey I'm willing to take others if you can convince me with well thoughtout reasoning to the contrary. I'm always open to learning something new:) Until then all governments have consititutions and we have a republic, which means an indirect or representative democracy.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,408
2
81
Originally posted by: konichiwa
Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
Well.. it was a Democracy from 1787 to 2000.
We have never been a democracy, we are a representative republic.

democracy definition- 1.Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.



dictionary.com
We are not a democracy. A democracy would require a vote of the people on every issue.

Dictionary.com misses the finer points of political definitions (as well as medical, scientific, etc). It is a dictionary, not a reference textbook.

Thats a direct democracy Kon. Still does'nt change the fact we have a indirect one where every branch of our government derives its power from majority rule.
 

zantac

Senior member
Jun 15, 2003
226
0
0
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
Well.. it was a Democracy from 1787 to 2000.
We have never been a democracy, we are a representative republic.
Correction, Constitutional Republic
Federal Republic to be technically correct ;)
 

konichiwa

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,077
1
0
Bush v. Gore, supra,148 L Ed. 2 P. 398:

"the individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for the President of the United States unless and until the state legislature chooses a statewide election as a means to implement its power to appoint members of the Electoral College."

If we were a democracy, Gore would be president. But Bush v. Gore is case-in-point that we are not a democracy. Read the federalist papers! It's all in there.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,408
2
81
Originally posted by: konichiwa
Bush v. Gore, supra,148 L Ed. 2 P. 398:

"the individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for the President of the United States unless and until the state legislature chooses a statewide election as a means to implement its power to appoint members of the Electoral College."

If we were a democracy, Gore would be president. But Bush v. Gore is case-in-point that we are not a democracy. Read the federalist papers! It's all in there.
No if we were a direct democracy this may have happend. However we are a Republic, which is an indirect democracy which still ultimately derives its power from majority rule just like a direct one. This is needed to prevent mob rule and a better pace of government so every tim dick and harry is'nt introducing 1000 laws a day . No country has a totally direct democracy, only a few do for the presidential elections by themselves.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,294
1
76
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Allright, I give up. The dictionary defenitions are good enough for the American Television audience.

Jeebus....
As much as you seek to belittle dictionaries and what you apparently perceive as your intellectual inferiors, I challenge you to find any political scientist who isn't a complete elitist crackpot that would argue that the USA is not a democracy.

We of course are also a constitutional republic and we elect representatives rather than voting on every issue as individuals.

We are also a Federation of states, which defines some of the entities whithin which democratic functions take place.

But the fact that we are a federation, have a Constitution and rule of law, and are a republic, doesn't exclude the fact that we are also a democracy.

 

HombrePequeno

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2001
4,657
0
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
Well.. it was a Democracy from 1787 to 2000.
We have never been a democracy, we are a representative republic.
Correction, Constitutional Republic
Both of you like to quibble. The U.S. is a democracy. A Constitutional Republic and Republic are both types of democracies in fact they are the same term since adding "constitutional" is frivolous, since all nations have constitutions.

1. Not all nations have constitutions.

2. Learn something about political science.

1. Show me one that does'nt.

2. Exaplain it then if you can. Or is this meant to try and embarress me in some way when you can't even understand the distinctions let alone explain them?
I don't believe the United Kingdom has a written constitution.
 

LordSegan

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 1999
7,674
1
0
Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Allright, I give up. The dictionary defenitions are good enough for the American Television audience.

Jeebus....
As much as you seek to belittle dictionaries and what you apparently perceive as your intellectual inferiors, I challenge you to find any political scientist who isn't a complete elitist crackpot that would argue that the USA is not a democracy.

We of course are also a constitutional republic and we elect representatives rather than voting on every issue as individuals.

We are also a Federation of states, which defines some of the entities whithin which democratic functions take place.

But the fact that we are a federation, have a Constitution and rule of law, and are a republic, doesn't exclude the fact that we are also a democracy.

DING DING DING-- Dead, you are the winner

According to political scientists, the USA is a democracy, at least in the common nominal sense of the word. Technically, the USA is a Consitutional Republic, which means that it is a democracy that has a written consitution and representatives.
 

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