If you lived in california

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,665
21
81
And wanted to vote Republican, why vote at all?

Same situation with me in NJ. Strong labor and teacher unions are all Democratic. I may vote for local council and mayor, but voting for anything else would be a waste of time because all people vote for in these states are their colors.


I'm not saying I voted for Bush, but sheesh.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Californians put our current Republican governor, Arnold, in office when they recalled the previous governor, a democrat, for no good reason, after having elected a number of republican governors, mostly bad.

Why vote? If nothing else, it 'sends a message', rather than allowing a 100-0 blowout, that not all are democrats. If you had not voted during Reagan's time, he wouldn't have carried California...

Of course, I hardly want to encourage you to vote, if you are Republican - first, cure thyself, and then inflict your vote on the innocent people around you.:) Seriously, I think we can use some more 'why are you in your party' discussions, because I think a lot of people fall for the propaganda parties use to recruit voters and are unaware of some of their party's real policies. They're the 'sheep', the 'masses', the 'dupes' who are marketed to.

I think Trickle-Down-economics is a great example of the thing I'm talking about - take a small group (super wealthy) who want another group (the public) to vote to give their money over to the small group - not easy, but when packaged with a combination of a nice-sounding argument (the more you give to the super wealthy, the more YOU get in return!), and propaganda demonizing the 'liberals' on the other side, and it works great. But I digress.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
There is more on the ballot than just presidential election. We have all sorts of proposition scams to defeat in CA, like the electoral reform last time around.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,111
926
126
Originally posted by: Craig234
Californians put our current Republican governor, Arnold, in office when they recalled the previous governor, a democrat, for no good reason, after having elected a number of republican governors, mostly bad.

Why vote? If nothing else, it 'sends a message', rather than allowing a 100-0 blowout, that not all are democrats. If you had not voted during Reagan's time, he wouldn't have carried California...

Of course, I hardly want to encourage you to vote, if you are Republican - first, cure thyself, and then inflict your vote on the innocent people around you.:) Seriously, I think we can use some more 'why are you in your party' discussions, because I think a lot of people fall for the propaganda parties use to recruit voters and are unaware of some of their party's real policies. They're the 'sheep', the 'masses', the 'dupes' who are marketed to.

I think Trickle-Down-economics is a great example of the thing I'm talking about - take a small group (super wealthy) who want another group (the public) to vote to give their money over to the small group - not easy, but when packaged with a combination of a nice-sounding argument (the more you give to the super wealthy, the more YOU get in return!), and propaganda demonizing the 'liberals' on the other side, and it works great. But I digress.

Talking out your ass, as usual. Arnold is the most level headed governor this state has has in a long time. He shows true compassion to the people. Not his fault that the state is in financial turmoil. He inherited that from a bunch of fiscally irresponsible spendiacs.

 

Drift3r

Guest
Jun 3, 2003
3,572
0
0
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Originally posted by: Craig234
Californians put our current Republican governor, Arnold, in office when they recalled the previous governor, a democrat, for no good reason, after having elected a number of republican governors, mostly bad.

Why vote? If nothing else, it 'sends a message', rather than allowing a 100-0 blowout, that not all are democrats. If you had not voted during Reagan's time, he wouldn't have carried California...

Of course, I hardly want to encourage you to vote, if you are Republican - first, cure thyself, and then inflict your vote on the innocent people around you.:) Seriously, I think we can use some more 'why are you in your party' discussions, because I think a lot of people fall for the propaganda parties use to recruit voters and are unaware of some of their party's real policies. They're the 'sheep', the 'masses', the 'dupes' who are marketed to.

I think Trickle-Down-economics is a great example of the thing I'm talking about - take a small group (super wealthy) who want another group (the public) to vote to give their money over to the small group - not easy, but when packaged with a combination of a nice-sounding argument (the more you give to the super wealthy, the more YOU get in return!), and propaganda demonizing the 'liberals' on the other side, and it works great. But I digress.

Talking out your ass, as usual. Arnold is the most level headed governor this state has has in a long time. He shows true compassion to the people. Not his fault that the state is in financial turmoil. He inherited that from a bunch of fiscally irresponsible spendiacs.

This is his 2nd term as governor and his 5th year which is soon to be his 6th. That excuse might of worked during his first term but not now. Hey though if California is that awful Rep's they can go move to a Red State.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Originally posted by: Craig234
Californians put our current Republican governor, Arnold, in office when they recalled the previous governor, a democrat, for no good reason, after having elected a number of republican governors, mostly bad.

Why vote? If nothing else, it 'sends a message', rather than allowing a 100-0 blowout, that not all are democrats. If you had not voted during Reagan's time, he wouldn't have carried California...

Of course, I hardly want to encourage you to vote, if you are Republican - first, cure thyself, and then inflict your vote on the innocent people around you.:) Seriously, I think we can use some more 'why are you in your party' discussions, because I think a lot of people fall for the propaganda parties use to recruit voters and are unaware of some of their party's real policies. They're the 'sheep', the 'masses', the 'dupes' who are marketed to.

I think Trickle-Down-economics is a great example of the thing I'm talking about - take a small group (super wealthy) who want another group (the public) to vote to give their money over to the small group - not easy, but when packaged with a combination of a nice-sounding argument (the more you give to the super wealthy, the more YOU get in return!), and propaganda demonizing the 'liberals' on the other side, and it works great. But I digress.

Talking out your ass, as usual. Arnold is the most level headed governor this state has has in a long time. He shows true compassion to the people. Not his fault that the state is in financial turmoil. He inherited that from a bunch of fiscally irresponsible spendiacs.

Well, this is an idiotic post. You say *I'm* talking 'out my ass', and your point has nothing to do with what I wrote. I didn't say a word about Arnold being good or bad, but you pretend you are answering something I said. You really owe me and the readers here an apology for such a reckless, dishonest post.

I could say what I actually think of Arnold, but I think it's better to simply point out the terrible qualities of your post. You do get the irony of the week award though.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
new jersey's elected a couple republican governors and could potentially be a contested state if 9/11 gets the nomination.

even in 2004, it was a contested state till the last few days before the election.

I think the problem with NJ is perception... because all the democrats are together at one end of the state with all the republicans at the other, and never the twain shall meet.

between living in what was practically a hippy commune in Oregon to moving to Jersey City till college, I don't think I knew a single republican till I was like 17 :p
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,734
6,499
126
The same curse is everywhere. You can vote for this idiot democrat or that fool republican.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,395
8,437
136
Originally posted by: Craig234
Californians put our current Republican governor, Arnold, in office when they recalled the previous governor, a democrat, for no good reason, after having elected a number of republican governors, mostly bad.

No good reason? As if making the state go bankrupt isn't reason enough.

The hilarious part of it all is that Arnold is allowing the same legislature to spend so it really doesn't matter - and in fact we should have left governor Davis in office just like Karl Rove warned us to. Because then it would have kept the Democratic face on the Democratic Party?s utter failure in CA.

Now there has been a delay, however small, and a Republican face to pin on the state?s economic collapse.

Yet wait, isn't this topic regarding voting? Yes, Arnold is a true example that Republicans can elect someone to office, but to call HIM a Republican would be a disgrace in of itself. He is RINO and I oppose any concept that he belongs to the same party I do.

He was placed into office to be a roadblock to the populous bankruptcy and he has instead bowed to it. To hell with him, his legacy will be a small bump in California?s fall. Shouldn?t even be worthy of recognition. Arnold has failed to do anything other than look at himself in the mirror ? he is an example in that you can betray your base you to get elected. Much like Bush.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Craig234
Californians put our current Republican governor, Arnold, in office when they recalled the previous governor, a democrat, for no good reason, after having elected a number of republican governors, mostly bad.

No good reason? As if making the state go bankrupt isn't reason enough.

The hilarious part of it all is that Arnold is allowing the same legislature to spend so it really doesn't matter - and in fact we should have left governor Davis in office just like Karl Rove warned us to. Because then it would have kept the Democratic face on the Democratic Party?s utter failure in CA.

Now there has been a delay, however small, and a Republican face to pin on the state?s economic collapse.

Yet wait, isn't this topic regarding voting? Yes, Arnold is a true example that Republicans can elect someone to office, but to call HIM a Republican would be a disgrace in of itself. He is RINO and I oppose any concept that he belongs to the same party I do.

He was placed into office to be a roadblock to the populous bankruptcy and he has instead bowed to it. To hell with him, his legacy will be a small bump in California?s fall. Shouldn?t even be worthy of recognition. Arnold has failed to do anything other than look at himself in the mirror ? he is an example in that you can betray your base you to get elected. Much like Bush.

The previous governor did not 'make the state go bankrupt'. And the election was not about that. The election was about two things - one, the impact Enron had, which was ironic since Enron, George Bush's single biggest donor, was Republican and took particular pleasure in targeting the democratic state of California, and the governor then was their *enemy*, refusing to sign off on a sweetheart deal Enron had worked out with the Bush administration, and Arnold, the 'fix' for Enron, was actually an Enron insider who had gone to a secret invitiation-only meeting with Enron to plan their California strategy, and he couldn't sign the deal fast enough.

The other issue was Davis' increase in DMV fees, which was specifically FOR fiscal responsibility, but oh noes, was a tax increase.

(A third issue was an attack on Davis' honesty, much like the attacks calling Al Gore a big liar in 2000, saying he'd taken too much money from special interests. Arnold specifically promised not to do that while attacking Davis, saying his independent wealth would let him pay the bills out of his own pocket - and then when elected, he took MORE special interest money than Davis ever had, while the Republican sheep are blind and bleating 'soooo whatttt soooo whattttt').

No, there was no good reason to recall Davis for fighting the good fight on Enron and getting the blame for what they did, to replace him with Enron buddy Arnold.

Arnold is the sort of candidate who can do ok in CA, insofar as having enough for both sides (remember, this is the state that elected Ronald Reagan and Jerry Brown adjacent). He tried to sell out the public and perhaps surprisingly got caught, with his ballot initiatives all of which lost, and since then he's concentrated more on the public-interest issues of the environment and infrastructure in his visible political activity. Republicans aren't terribly pleased with him but are happy to have a Republican at all slowing the legislature.

On the other hand, he's blocked some excellent bills, and we're really paying a price for losing Davis; for one, Arnold is now blocking a high speed rail from SF to LA and San Diego. Arnold has blocked some excellent social legislation as well, preventing CA from leading the nation as it usually has on such topics. Some of his vetoes are more defensible.

Edit:

The recall campaign did include controversy over the state's deficit and Davis' plans for addressing the deficit - here's a link to a typical ad for the Davis opponents identifying their reasons for recalling him. Note they cite the *deceipt* they say was involved about the deficit, and they criticize his plans for addressing it with tax increases and budget cuts, but you don't see "HE BANKRUPTED THE STATE!" as one of their five issues.

Big surprise, Davis' hands weren't entirely clean; for example, the prison guard union in CA has too much political role, balancing the Republicans' special interest donors.

Things aren't going to be perfect, because power is not evenly shared in society. But there's a difference between moderate compromises, and huge sellouts of the public interest.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,606
2,858
136
Douche <======> Turd Sandwich

It doesn't matter.

Also, the impetus for the Gray Davis recall was the fact that in the midst of the energy crisis, he signed several LONG term contracts for power at RIDICULOUS prices, only to see energy prices drop dramatically not long afterward. His Democratic State Legislature had been squabbling with the minority Republicans so long that energy capacity was a disaster. There was plenty of power in NoCal, but the transmission lines to SoCal were such a bottleneck that SoCal had perpetual rolling blackouts. Gov. Davis, as the face for the 'unified' Democratic government took the fall. It didn't help that people were pissed off at him over his milquetoast leadership in his first term. Many of the Northern and Central California counties (you know, the vast majority of the state -geographically- that always votes Red) were just waiting for a reason to jump on him. I, personally, think that a lot of it was repressed anger over the Willie Brown years.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: sactoking
Douche <======> Turd Sandwich

It doesn't matter.

Also, the impetus for the Gray Davis recall was the fact that in the midst of the energy crisis, he signed several LONG term contracts for power at RIDICULOUS prices, only to see energy prices drop dramatically not long afterward. His Democratic State Legislature had been squabbling with the minority Republicans so long that energy capacity was a disaster. There was plenty of power in NoCal, but the transmission lines to SoCal were such a bottleneck that SoCal had perpetual rolling blackouts. Gov. Davis, as the face for the 'unified' Democratic government took the fall. It didn't help that people were pissed off at him over his milquetoast leadership in his first term. Many of the Northern and Central California counties (you know, the vast majority of the state -geographically- that always votes Red) were just waiting for a reason to jump on him. I, personally, think that a lot of it was repressed anger over the Willie Brown years.

You do capture some of the issues of the campaign. Frankly, I'm not informed enough to split the hairs between the harms Enron did that Davis can't be faulted for, and the harms Enron led to that Davis made worse. But I do find it ironic for him to take the blame for the wrongs caused - some directly, some leading him to handle them poorly - by the Republican Enron who was happy to see him damaged, and moreover to put into power (no pun intended) the Enron ally Arnold.

What you allude to is how CA is more complicated than 'just a blue state', as I referenced with my comment about electing Reagan and Jerry Brown side by side, and the string of Republican governors elected before Davis. You're right that there was a general lack of enthusiasm about Davis, ripe for exploitation, much as there was a general lack of enthusiasm about Al Gore in 2000 - but I think the policy impact was high (in both cases).

I'm probably one of the ten people in the state who actually read through some of Davis's side in the election summarizing things he'd done, and it was a governor I had no idea about - he'd done a lot of good for the state that no one knew about. But you're right too that there was some backlash ripe from the Willie Brown period - to this day, as a liberal democrat, Willie give me the willies, the man oozes a sense of corruption, IMO. But somehow, the guy no one seems to be able to stand, wielded power masterfully.

And in contrast, 'public servant' Davis, who Arnold later praised and credited with helping him become skilled at governing, lost power in a humiliating recall.

We're a weird state politically, and we owe the nation an apology for Nixon and Reagan, but get credit for Earl Warren.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
61
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The same curse is everywhere. You can vote for this idiot democrat or that fool republican.

:D

The founding fathers knew this. This is one reason why they gave the federal government very little power.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Craig234
Californians put our current Republican governor, Arnold, in office when they recalled the previous governor, a democrat, for no good reason, after having elected a number of republican governors, mostly bad.

No good reason? As if making the state go bankrupt isn't reason enough.

The hilarious part of it all is that Arnold is allowing the same legislature to spend so it really doesn't matter - and in fact we should have left governor Davis in office just like Karl Rove warned us to. Because then it would have kept the Democratic face on the Democratic Party?s utter failure in CA.

Now there has been a delay, however small, and a Republican face to pin on the state?s economic collapse.

Yet wait, isn't this topic regarding voting? Yes, Arnold is a true example that Republicans can elect someone to office, but to call HIM a Republican would be a disgrace in of itself. He is RINO and I oppose any concept that he belongs to the same party I do.

He was placed into office to be a roadblock to the populous bankruptcy and he has instead bowed to it. To hell with him, his legacy will be a small bump in California?s fall. Shouldn?t even be worthy of recognition. Arnold has failed to do anything other than look at himself in the mirror ? he is an example in that you can betray your base you to get elected. Much like Bush.

You know, you might want to look at some actual numbers instead of listening to whatever ass clown commentator is popular with Republicans today. California certainly has its economic issues, but fundamentally it has a good, diversified economic foundation...which is more than I can say for a lot of red states inhabited by folks talking about the "downfall" of California's economy. Deficit spending can cause problems, as it does on the national scale (which is far worse than California's situation, thanks in no small part to Bush and the Republicans), but it can't ruin an economy.

Personally, I think it's just sour grapes...California has a great economy that is superior to the economy of most countries, and the folks living in Bugdick, Arkansas are jealous.