If you are poor w/3 children, the govt pays you $6k for filing your taxes

[nehalem256]

I think this is incorrect. The tax credit is subtracted from your gross income lowering your tax liability. It is not free money.

http://taxes.about.com/od/taxglossary/g/refundable-tax-credits.htm

 

[OverVolt]

http://taxes.about.com/od/taxglossary/g/refundable-tax-credits.htm

Hmm well then.

 

[Matt1970]

I think this is incorrect. The tax credit is subtracted from your gross income lowering your tax liability. It is not free money.

Nope. You can get back more than you paid in.

 

[werepossum]

What social contract?
When did the government accept responsibility for providing a job and roof for every person?

Wasting your time. If he set aside his hate, envy and Marxism there'd be nothing left of him.

I don't have a problem with the government providing a little assistance to the working poor. I do, however, have a problem with a society that allows for multiple generations of people to live on welfare without contributing back.

This, exactly. I'd much rather my tax dollars go toward helping someone who is working than someone who rides welfare as a lifestyle.

I think this is incorrect. The tax credit is subtracted from your gross income lowering your tax liability. It is not free money.

Originally that was true, but now you can get much more than you ever paid in.

 

[Jhhnn]

Funny. Pretty sure that Lyndon Johnson launched the whole "War on Poverty", creating the welfare state, years before the whole trickle down thing.

But don't let a little thing like causality get in the way of your liberal outrage.

EDIT: Also pretty sure that it is not the fault of corporations that a single mom with 3 bastard kids cannot get a job supporting herself.

Capitalism delivered imperfectly even back then, moreso today after 30 years of trickle down humjob.

 

[Jhhnn]

Wasting your time. If he set aside his hate, envy and Marxism there'd be nothing left of him.

Confronted with concepts too deep for your well propagandized mind, hurl false attributions, scream Marxist.

Rush would be so proud of the way you label & dismiss, as if there some actual thought involved, other than the minimum necessary to achieve denial.

 

[werepossum]

Confronted with concepts too deep for your well propagandized mind, hurl false attributions, scream Marxist.

Rush would be so proud of the way you label & dismiss, as if there some actual thought involved, other than the minimum necessary to achieve denial.

Yes, obviously it requires very deep thought to decide that the far left and Marxists are correct on every conceivable issue, but no thought at all to decide the left is more correct on some issues and the right on others.

 

[Jhhnn]

What social contract?
When did the government accept responsibility for providing a job and roof for every person?

Social Contract-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract

Libertopians reject such ideas on a conceptual level, delusionists that they are. Right wingers just believe that unrestrained Capitalism, being perfect & all, automagically creates the best for everybody.

History means nothing to either, other than select bits being a basis for dreamy idealizations.

Propagandists of the wealthy elite believe they have both wrapped around their little finger, & they're right.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yes, obviously it requires very deep thought to decide that the far left and Marxists are correct on every conceivable issue, but no thought at all to decide the left is more correct on some issues and the right on others.

I know we all kinda live in our own reality, but that doesn't mean you get to re-define terms like Marxism, use them as false attribution for their emotional impact.

I like how you're trying to switch gears to "Leftist" a much more vague but equally derogatory term of the American right wing. That's easier to define as suiting your purposes, still bullshit, given that most Americans are well to your left in general while not being Leftists at all. They just don't realize you're talking about them & what they believe. It's a Cold War mentality thing. Or you could jump the shark, go for "collectivist", emulating Charles Koch.

Or, nobody can become non-Marxist non-Leftist until they agree with you completely.

 

[OGOC]

Right wingers just believe that unrestrained Capitalism, being perfect & all, automagically creates the best for everybody.

History means nothing to either, other than select bits being a basis for dreamy idealizations.

The U.S. hasn't had unrestrained capitalism for at least 100 years.

Even Bono now realizes how powerful capitalism is.

http://prismmagazine.org/bono-on-capitalism-with-a-conscience/

The world has taken notice that Bono has adjusted his economic tune. In a November 2012 speech at Georgetown University, Bono said, “Aid is just a stopgap. Commerce [and] entrepreneurial capitalism take more people out of poverty than aid.” One month earlier Bono had shared at a tech conference in Ireland that he was humbled to realize the importance of capitalism and entrepreneurship in philanthropy.

Bono’s affirmation—that business takes more people out of poverty than aid—should be a rallying cry for a new generation.

But don't tell that to the dreamer "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" people.

 

[Jhhnn]

The U.S. hasn't had unrestrained capitalism for at least 100 years.

Even Bono now realizes how powerful capitalism is.

http://prismmagazine.org/bono-on-capitalism-with-a-conscience/

But don't tell that to the dreamer "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" people.

More Marxist! innuendo. How cute.

Capitalism is extremely powerful to the point of destroying itself & the economy along with it w/o the reasonable constraints imposed by enlightened egalitarian democracy. Otherwise, it degenerates into oligopoly & oligarchy as in the third world. I don't want to destroy it at all. As you point out, it has operated under such constraints for 100 years, with varying degrees of benefit for us all. We narrowly averted economic catastrophe in 2008, indicating that constraints were simply inadequate. We have achieved the grossest inequality of income, wealth, opportunity & power since 1928, another symptom of failure to reasonably govern wrt Capitalism. Which is not to suggest that there be no differences, either.

I don't really like the welfare state model, but Capitalism in it's present form offers no realistic alternative if we're to serve the common welfare, which is our right & obligation as citizens in this Constitutional Republic.

 

[OGOC]

More Marxist! innuendo. How cute.

If you're going to throw out generalities and extremes that attack "delusionist" libertopians and right-wingers, and trash capitalism even though you admit we don't really have capitalism, then I'm going to feel free to mention Marxism.

Capitalism is extremely powerful to the point of destroying itself & the economy along with it w/o the reasonable constraints imposed by enlightened egalitarian democracy.

As you point out, it has operated under such constraints for 100 years, with varying degrees of benefit for us all. We narrowly averted economic catastrophe in 2008, indicating that constraints were simply inadequate. We have achieved the grossest inequality of income, wealth, opportunity & power since 1928, another symptom of failure to reasonably govern wrt Capitalism. Which is not to suggest that there be no differences, either.

I don't really like the welfare state model, but Capitalism in it's present form offers no realistic alternative if we're to serve the common welfare, which is our right & obligation as citizens in this Constitutional Republic.

You agree there hasn't been unrestrained capitalism for at least 100 years. You praise the (ever-increasing) restraints put on capitalism during the past 100 years. Then, after 100 years of adding restraints to capitalism, you say, "See? Capitalism doesn't work."

People restrain, morph, socialize, crony-ize, big-government-ize, insert-more adjectives-here real capitalism, and then when they don't like the result, they blame capitalism and say we need more of that stuff we added to capitalism that broke it.

 

[jackstar7]

If you're going to throw out generalities and extremes that attack "delusionist" libertopians and right-wingers, and trash capitalism even though you admit we don't really have capitalism, then I'm going to feel free to mention Marxism.

You agree there hasn't been unrestrained capitalism for at least 100 years. You praise the (ever-increasing) restraints put on capitalism during the past 100 years. Then, after 100 years of adding restraints to capitalism, you say, "See? Capitalism doesn't work."

People restrain, morph, socialize, crony-ize, big-government-ize, insert-more adjectives-here real capitalism, and then when they don't like the result, they blame capitalism and say we need more of that stuff we added to capitalism that broke it.

Cronyism would and does exist regardless of any bit of government.

 

[Jhhnn]

If you're going to throw out generalities and extremes that attack "delusionist" libertopians and right-wingers, and trash capitalism even though you admit we don't really have capitalism, then I'm going to feel free to mention Marxism.

You agree there hasn't been unrestrained capitalism for at least 100 years. You praise the (ever-increasing) restraints put on capitalism during the past 100 years. Then, after 100 years of adding restraints to capitalism, you say, "See? Capitalism doesn't work."

People restrain, morph, socialize, crony-ize, big-government-ize, insert-more adjectives-here real capitalism, and then when they don't like the result, they blame capitalism and say we need more of that stuff we added to capitalism that broke it.

Heh. The reason that capitalism was ever controlled in the first place was because of its excesses & failures.

And, uhh, haven't we been on a deregulation march since the Carter years? The same timeframe in which our current malaise came to be? I believe we have.

 

[Matt1970]

If you're going to throw out generalities and extremes that attack "delusionist" libertopians and right-wingers, and trash capitalism even though you admit we don't really have capitalism, then I'm going to feel free to mention Marxism.

You agree there hasn't been unrestrained capitalism for at least 100 years. You praise the (ever-increasing) restraints put on capitalism during the past 100 years. Then, after 100 years of adding restraints to capitalism, you say, "See? Capitalism doesn't work."

People restrain, morph, socialize, crony-ize, big-government-ize, insert-more adjectives-here real capitalism, and then when they don't like the result, they blame capitalism and say we need more of that stuff we added to capitalism that broke it.

Oh he's a Marxist alright. What's worse is he truly despises capitalism yet has no problem enjoying the luxuries it has provided for him.

 

[ivwshane]

Oh he's a Marxist alright. What's worse is he truly despises capitalism yet has no problem enjoying the luxuries it has provided for him.

Interesting...I didn't hear him say he despised capitalism at all. I did hear him say that it needs to be regulated and you guys retorted that the reason we are where we are is due to regulations, which completely ignores the fact that regulations are the result of capitalisms "evils", you then promptly ignored that point and made the bogus arguement that he despises capitalism.

For once it would be nice if you guys could debate actual points made instead of red herrings and straw man arguements, it would also be nice if you'd at least acknowledged good points made that you cannot refute so we know that your ears are working at the very least.

 

[JEDIYoda]

The best part of this is you do not even have to be a citizen and your kids don't even have to be in this country.

link plz.....

 

[Veliko]

Oh he's a Marxist alright. What's worse is he truly despises capitalism yet has no problem enjoying the luxuries it has provided for him.

If you're going to throw out generalities and extremes that attack "delusionist" libertopians and right-wingers, and trash capitalism even though you admit we don't really have capitalism, then I'm going to feel free to mention Marxism.

The problem is that you're both wedded to capitalism in the same way that someone feels wedded to Creationism; you're emotionally invested in it and feel personally insulted whenever someone so much as suggests that changes need to be made.

 

[ivwshane]

The problem is that you're both wedded to capitalism in the same way that someone feels wedded to Creationism; you're emotionally invested in it and feel personally insulted whenever someone so much as suggests that changes need to be made.

Did you expect something different from a righty whose every arguement is based on emotion and gut reaction? My guess is that righties share a gene with Neanderthals (I'm not being hyperbolic either, emotions in an age of an awakening of human intelligence doesn't seem like a superior trait to the more logical/inquisitive homo Sapiens).

 

[davmat787]

What social contract?
When did the government accept responsibility for providing a job and roof for every person?

I won't, but one could argue that through so many regulations, laws, incomprehensible tax code, .etc that it is virtually impossible to provide for ones family through a subsistence life style. Hell, if a city can fine you for collecting rain water, the .gov bears _some_ responsibility to its citizens if they are going to make the alternatives impossible.

 

[Matt1970]

Interesting...I didn't hear him say he despised capitalism at all. I did hear him say that it needs to be regulated and you guys retorted that the reason we are where we are is due to regulations, which completely ignores the fact that regulations are the result of capitalisms "evils", you then promptly ignored that point and made the bogus arguement that he despises capitalism.

For once it would be nice if you guys could debate actual points made instead of red herrings and straw man arguements, it would also be nice if you'd at least acknowledged good points made that you cannot refute so we know that your ears are working at the very least.

Funny, you didn't hear him say he despised capitalism yet you heard me say the reason we are where we are is due to regulations. For once it would be nice if you heard what was actually being said rather than what you want to hear.

 

[Jhhnn]

The problem is that you're both wedded to capitalism in the same way that someone feels wedded to Creationism; you're emotionally invested in it and feel personally insulted whenever someone so much as suggests that changes need to be made.

They've fully integrated 30-40 years of well formulated & extremely effective right wing propaganda into their belief system. They defend it reflexively, holding to false premises created by leaps of faith. They never look deep enough to realize that they have leaped. The people at Heritage, Cato, Club for Growth & the rest are the best in the business, except maybe the Israelis. Those efforts have been bought & paid for by America's wealthiest to serve their own interests and none other.

I suspect some of the ravers learned their first words from Rush on the radio.

 

[Veliko]

Funny, you didn't hear him say he despised capitalism yet you heard me say the reason we are where we are is due to regulations. For once it would be nice if you heard what was actually being said rather than what you want to hear.

So you acknowledge that he didn't actually say that he despised capitalism?

 

[Jhhnn]

I said-

More Marxist! innuendo. How cute.

Capitalism is extremely powerful to the point of destroying itself & the economy along with it w/o the reasonable constraints imposed by enlightened egalitarian democracy. Otherwise, it degenerates into oligopoly & oligarchy as in the third world. I don't want to destroy it at all. As you point out, it has operated under such constraints for 100 years, with varying degrees of benefit for us all. We narrowly averted economic catastrophe in 2008, indicating that constraints were simply inadequate. We have achieved the grossest inequality of income, wealth, opportunity & power since 1928, another symptom of failure to reasonably govern wrt Capitalism. Which is not to suggest that there be no differences, either.

I don't really like the welfare state model, but Capitalism in it's present form offers no realistic alternative if we're to serve the common welfare, which is our right & obligation as citizens in this Constitutional Republic.

To which you replied-

Oh he's a Marxist alright. What's worse is he truly despises capitalism yet has no problem enjoying the luxuries it has provided for him.

What you believe so fervently obviously cripples your intellect, your ability to comprehend, just as the perpetrators of such notions intended. You believe in things that you don't understand, & therefore can't articulate. But you believe anyway, in a fashion & structure much more religious than rational.

In another time, another place, you'd be screaming to burn the heretics.

 

[Incorruptible]

This is just wrong, they shouldn't be getting any tax dollars and the welfare should be cut.