If we split the US in two halves, half conservative, half liberal, which would do better?

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spamboy

Banned
Aug 28, 2000
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Ok, brainiancs. Let's think this over. Who's going to be more liberal, a mechanic or a civil engineer? Who's going to be more liberal, a construction worker or an architect?

It's a no brainer, folks.

But I should point out that I mean that more from a "moral" or social perspective and less from a economic perspective. etech's quote is true. When you are older and richer, you tend to think a lot less in the favor of the "little" guy.


And yes, I did read the exit poll data. You'll notice that the people with post-graduate degrees voted in favor of Gore. Or maybe you didn't read it correctly? I don't think that clearly proves me wrong. Quite the opposite.

And no, I don't blindly swallow whatever is fed me. But if studies by reputable sources show that people with more education tend to be more liberal, it doesn't matter who reprints the information, it is still valid. Perhaps we are just a little peeved that centers of learning are teaching something you don't like?

Being stupid does not make you conservative. But being close-minded does. I personally am more libertarian than full out liberal. I really don't mean to offend people, and don't take what I am saying as "If you are conservative you must be dumb," because obviously that is not true. But ignorance does tend to favor conservatism, that's all I'm saying.



 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Spamboy But ignorance does tend to favor conservatism, that's all I'm saying.

And you are still wrong in saying it.

You also misinterpreted the quote. As you get older you realize that it is what you do and not what the government does for you that means the most. You realize how much farther you would have gotten if the government was not wasting so much of the money you earned. You realize that huge government programs for the most part waste more money and accomplish less then letting people do for themselves. As you get older you realize that you don't need or want the government to be your mommy and daddy any more, you have outgrown that need.

I'll qualify the above by saying that most people outgrow those flawed perceptions, some people never grow up.
 

colossus

Lifer
Dec 2, 2000
10,873
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<<

<< Conservative half would do better, as the liberal half would starve >>



most of the cash would go to the conservatives, all the labor and working class would go to the liberals. cash would quickly move over to the liberal side since the conservatives would have no working class (which oils the machinery of capitalism and war), liberal side becomes conservative as their wealth increases, conservative side becomes liberal as their wealth decreases, yadda, yadda, yadda.
>>



I think this is the only reply that hit it on the head exactly. This is the way society behaves. Let's look at some other replies to see if we can find the &quot;political dog chow&quot; the mass media dishes out in health servings:



<< if you count liberal is people who voted for gore in the last election, then basically all the big cities and metropolitan areas would be in the liberal part. all the cosmopolitan and international cities. Statistics show that people with higher education tend to be more liberal, so i'm figuring the liberal side would be far better off >>



The big cities have crowded urban areas that benefit from expanded social policies that are usually enacted by liberal statesmen. The big cities, however, are centered around industrial/technology corporate leaders of America that are the conservative base of America. As for liberals being more &quot;educated&quot;, I think any historian could tell you clearly that conservatives tend to be more educated. Whether this &quot;education&quot; has served a purpose remains to be seen. Hitler was educated well, but he didn't turn out to well. It is true, however, that most Ivy League college students have extremely liberal views, and they just happen to be children of this rich corporate America leaders :)




<< well the liberals would have a nice environment but would spend a little to much on welfare,medicade... programs like that

the conservates would have a very divided class system of a few really rich people and more poor/ middle class people with a horrible environment and a deficit to china b/c of military spending and would have horrible relations with other countries due to their isonlationist stand point
>>



Liberals would have a nice environment because all the production lines would come to a halt. Labor would ask for $300/hour to build a car, and that would pretty much kill any industry. Same applies for any union. They wouldn't have a tax base to stand on even with a tax rate of 80% (cough Europe cough) since their would be no &quot;rich folk stealing wealth from the poor.&quot; Conservatives don't believe in class divisions. They believe that everybody is equal and it's their own responsibility to help themselves. Instead they would feud over which religion, corporate laws, and estate laws. Do you really think they would keep separation of church and state when they want English as a standard language. The trade deficit can largely be owed to public works and not to defense spending. To believe otherwise means you've been successfully brainwashed. Look up SS' influence on the annual budgeting over the past decades. The number one determination in the federal budget is SS. As far as foreign relations, the conservative side would have killed the rest of the world and the liberal side would have been invaded by Columbia :)




<< yup, the large cities would be on the liberal side... liberals seem to get along better with their range of views. just look at current ultra conservatives.. they don't tolerate their moderate wing. rockefeller republican? haha, pretty much extinct. conservative side would go down the slippery slope of merging religion with government..freedoms will go away:p

ask yourself, which side would the kkk chose? :)
>>



While that scares me the the KKK would choose the conservative side, it should also comfort you to know that every member of the KKK caught committing a crime would be promptly put to death right there in the court :) Of course my dark skin color would still make me anxious :)




<< Seat of science, engineering, and higher learning would be on the liberal side.
There would be more artists, poets, actors, doctors and multi-cultural professionals on the liberal side.
Lawyers would mostly be on the conservative side. And the majority would only be upper crust, elites on the conservative side. Power would equate with money.
So, you'd have 1/8 of the people of the US on the conservative side, 7/8 other side. The Republicans would support farm subsidies, so the farmers wouldn't have to work. Then the conservatives would all starve to death, leaving plenty of room for the liberals to take back to build cultural sensitivity centers, gay churches, free health clinics, and solar power arrays.
>>



Science, engineering, and higher education would be on the liberal side? What would be their motivating factor? Without the income from capitalistic corporations there would be no motivation for people to work towards goals. Curiosity doesn't put food in your stomach. Personally I'm in med school and while most of my classmates vote liberal they generally act conservative. The conservative side would have the worst entertainment though. Imagine if every song and TV show you ever saw for the rest of your life mirrored everything up to this point. Nobody would push the barriers with creativity as it wouldn't pay (not as high a gauranteed chance of success being an actor is it is being an engineer)
Republicans would not support farm subsidies should they be divided. Remember the rule to minimize government control. Once again the liberal side would have no industry seeing as all the labor bosses would want 10x the current wages. The conservative side would be faced with tons of medical emergencies as people who never saw a vacuum cleaner in their life are forced to use one for the first time because their maid when to the other side. Not to mentioned increased incidences of MI and berry aneurysms as the &quot;lazy rich&quot; are forced to suddenly get down and dirty :)
I take offense at your statement that lawyers would be conservative. You can have them, I don't want 'em!!! Except for the corporate law ones, most lawyers would love to practice in the liberal society where personal injury litigation is supreme. Of course ever citizen in the conservative country would have 8 lawyers planning his/her estate :)




<< Liberals of course. The conservatives would fail because they would have no one to discriminate against, so thus they would turn on themselves. They would kill each other off in a decade. Or make war with the liberals like they did in the civil war. They would lose again as well. Plus they would have suck @ss radio programs like that fat slob Rush Limbaugh. The liberals would struggle but make it because they would work to get along with each other. The more I hear the term &quot;conservative&quot; and see what they say and do, the more disdain I develop for them. And no I don't give a damn about what some of you will say about me either. >>



As much hypocrasy as can be posted in such a small amount of text. Judging by your closed mind and hatred of a group of people you should be on the conservative side :) Yes the radio would suck, but because of the afore mentioned reason. I won't even bother responding to the rest of you post

<< classy >>

because you can't live up to your handle...





<< well wait a second, the kkk is american, and they exist in america.. where would they go? They just happen to be republicans that hate blacks:p Its simple as that >>



&quot;Scott, you just don't get it do you&quot; (quoted from Dr. Evil). Yes the KKK and Waco would be on the conservative side. It would be a scary place. Yet you could sleep peacefully at night knowing you have 700 guns in your house and are legally allowed to &quot;shoot-to-kill&quot; :) Hehe, might be kind of fun. OK, that's sick, sorry. Hate groups would be on the conservative side because the Constitution protects freedom of speech/expression strongly. Crime by hate groups would be eliminated as they would all become human fertilizer.




<< People who have the education to think for themselves do so. Those people are liberals >>



Oh man, another load of feces! While this statement is true, human beings are not taught be robots!!! If you read the history books you're conservative and if you read the newspaper you're liberal. And if you don't think the majority of the mass media is liberal, then you're just fooling yourself. Maybe you should watch Tom on NBC the night of the November election down there in Florida. I loved that line &quot;We Won Florida!&quot;. We? Who's we? The people at NBC studios in New York won Florida? I don't get it....
Remember, educated is a relative term. You get so much from what your brain derives from external stimuli and then you also formulate your own opinions. If you read conservative or liberal propoganda you're educating yourself....straight into a narrow-minded view. By the numbers, there are far fewer register Republicans than Democrats. Those Republicans tend to own more wealth. Those people with more wealth tend to be more educated hence leading to their wealth. By percentage, the portion of conservatives that have a PhD or MS is greater than that of the liberals. The liberals, by number, however, have more PhDs and MSs. Don't let the numbers fool you. Both sides work them. Judging from your one sided post I see you've already been programmed by the robots :)




<< And yes, I did read the exit poll data. You'll notice that the people with post-graduate degrees voted in favor of Gore. Or maybe you didn't read it correctly? I don't think that clearly proves me wrong. Quite the opposite.

And no, I don't blindly swallow whatever is fed me. But if studies by reputable sources show that people with more education tend to be more liberal, it doesn't matter who reprints the information, it is still valid. Perhaps we are just a little peeved that centers of learning are teaching something you don't like?

Being stupid does not make you conservative. But being close-minded does. I personally am more libertarian than full out liberal. I really don't mean to offend people, and don't take what I am saying as &quot;If you are conservative you must be dumb,&quot; because obviously that is not true. But ignorance does tend to favor conservatism, that's all I'm saying.
>>



Glad to see you're trying to avoid stepping on toes, but the last statement just puts your Hallucis Longus in your mouth. First thing I learned in biostatistics at UCLA (a very liberal public school) was that statistics a way of presenting lies in an appealing manner. I don't care which way you slice it or dice it. All you need is a simple bias such as polling location and the whole poll is useless. With that said, intelligent people in my class voted for both Gore and Bush. They interpreted each candidates approach towards solving our country's problems differently.
I don't see how being close-minded makes you conservative. Perhaps I'm too narrow minded to see the point? My parents are immigrants to this county and started off with $0 and 30 years later we're that &quot;1%&quot; which Gore refers too. It's all because of my parents education and hard work - 1 MS and 1 PhD. I think &quot;narrow-mindedness tends to favor illogical thinking&quot; as Tuvoc or Spock would say :)

I too tend to believe in libretarian views with respects to social policy as far as peoples rights. Do whatever you want, but face the consequences and don't infringe on others. If you don't want to wear a seatbelt, don't. But you can't file an insurance claim. Want to drive 200 mph? Go ahead, but not on public roads.

With respects to goverment control, I think the government is not as intelligent as I am. Sorry if that sounds egotistic, but it's true (to me at least). I believe in my capabilites and my responsibility to control my future and well being. I still think a government is necessary to enforce laws and protect people's rights (as deemed per Constitution), but it should not be there to be used as a cruch for those who have the ability to better themselves but are to lazy to do so. If the goverment gave me back 10% of my payroll taxes and told me that I would get no SS I would be in heaven. I have the self control to save money. For those people who don't have the control, they need the help of the government to control their unchecked desires. If the governemt was not there to enforce the CAL-OSHA standards I could be hurt by a malevolent employer and for the most part I would be powerless to defend against it without the aid of powerful litigation. I could afford it, but most people could not. In such a case the government should enforce the very laws it established at the request of its citizens.

With respects to governent controlling public works, I'm mixed. There's a lot of pork out there, but there's a lot of good. If the government didn't national highways most private companies would not have done so. In the case of energy crisis, any monkey could have seen this country's power crisis coming 3 years before now. You can't have unchecked population growth and a huge booming economy without building your infrastructure. Any dolt who plays C&amp;C for a few hours can figure that out!

With all that babble being said, any form of extreme nation would nullify the pacifying effects of a centerist action and would condemn itself. Like the human body, all things in moderation. Conservatives would die of Mercury poisoning in their water within two years and liberals would die of starvation and bankruptcy in two years.
 

Capn

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2000
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Colussus, long post, you should write a book or something. :)

In any case, the exit poll data is inconclusive. Gore had the majority of votes from those without highschool education (~60%). Bush took the advantage in those with college education, and Gore took took the advantage with those in post graduate education. You can't gain any kind of meaningful generalizations from these numbers, intelligent people can disagree on political issues.


And yes Engineers are conservative regardless of party. Go to an engineering school, then go to a liberal arts school in california (no offense) which one is more liberal? Statistically engineers tend to be male, and males tend to be more conservative than women.
 

tm37

Lifer
Jan 24, 2001
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<< i was just pointing who lays in the same bed as you. minus the racial intolerance and they are republicans. minus hate the blackpanthers aren't liberals besides, we're talking about current groups.. ithink the panthers were 60-70s militia groups, cults and kkk/white power groups exist today. >>



So basically because the KKK are conservative and also preach hate (totally unrelated), I automatically fall in to that group? I am now a bigot? You are a fool.

Yes birds of a feather flock together, but just because someone shares some of my beliefs DOES NOT MEAN I EMBRACE THEIR BELIEFS!

The KKK are free to preach anything that they wish because in this country you are penalized for actions not thought. Stalin was a Comunnist (socialist) he believed in BIG GOVERNMENT so I guess you feel it is OK to Slaughter people for their beliefs? Oh stalin doesn't live in The USA? WHo cares? the aguement is just as absurd as yours.

Do I agree with the KKK on white supremicy? HELL NO! Do I think they sould be allowed to meet and speak? Yes I do Keep them above water. Small groups that are vocal donot frighten me nearly as much as Large underground groups. As Dennis Miller said -> &quot;the difference between Adolf Hitler and Davis duke was free speach.&quot;

Liberals want to control how I run my life and that is Wrong. The government should insure that I don't harm another persons property or Person. There should be a saftey net to help people get back on their feet when they fail, Not support them after they decide they are failures. The government should provide me with Infastructure, Military, police protection, Education, and the other Basics. I Believe the governments regulatory power should be minimum not overwhelming.

Does that make me a racist? Because the KKK also believe that? If you honestly feel conservities are behind or support Hate groups than you are a moron. You make a blanket statement to accuse those that do not agree with your views of being intolerate hate-mongers. But the liberals are all nice huh? Not one democract has ever done anything wrong How this- It you are a liberal than you are a lying, womanizing pig. See Clinton was, and most liberals accually support him.

Do you get it? If you want to debate liberal verus conservitive ideals or polical policies bring it on. It would apprear that you are more interested in name calling because you relize it is the only way you can win.
 

Aihyah

Banned
Apr 21, 2000
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Yes birds of a feather flock together, but just because someone shares some of my beliefs DOES NOT MEAN I EMBRACE THEIR BELIEFS!

lol! did i ever say that? no! all this extra stuff comes from you.. and you alone. Your explosive reaction speaks more then anything i said:p time for you to scroll up and double check:p
 

spamboy

Banned
Aug 28, 2000
1,033
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Can't we all just agree to disagree?

Lets all get together for a group hug and a campfire sing-along. Then we can go endangered species hunting. Everyone will be happy!
 

lowfatbaconboy

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2000
1,796
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the only problem is this forum is mostly conservative and old man murray forums is mostly liberal
so u put the same post on 2 diff sites and u would get 2 different and completely convincing answers.

Here for being liberal u get bashed most of the time and at OMM u get bashed if ur conservative...

and IMO the OMM guys have much better debating skills
 

colossus

Lifer
Dec 2, 2000
10,873
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<< Can't we all just agree to disagree?

Lets all get together for a group hug and a campfire sing-along. Then we can go endangered species hunting. Everyone will be happy!
>>



If you have a campfire you just released more greenhouse gases which killed off the endangered species, and with no animals to kill we'll just shoot each other :)

Humans beings are so self destructive....
 

stonerdave

Golden Member
Jul 26, 2000
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One thing I see is that, at least in my opinion, liberals seem to think that people are basically good and conservatives that they are basically evil. I see a difference in the ability to trust and the degree to which a person is anxiety free. The problem for conservatives is, though, that people really are basically good, the problem for liberals is that people don't know that and think the opposite. Thus we get the pendelum effect. Loosen up too much and people start acting out their bad feelings with impunity. Tighten up too much and you supress the human spirit.

nicely said.

to answer the original poster's question, i'd become so scared of either side i'd force myself into exile. preferably a tropical climate.
 

tm37

Lifer
Jan 24, 2001
12,436
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<< ask yourself, which side would the kkk chose? >>





<< i was just pointing who lays in the same bed as you. minus the racial intolerance and they are republicans. minus hate the blackpanthers aren't liberals besides, we're talking about current groups >>






<< i'm simply pointing out who you share your bed with >>





<< not really, any group that agrees with most of your party platform is pretty much a supporter >>




Hmm.. So I support the KKK? Now these are all words you have posted. You may not be calling my a racist but you are IMPLYING that somehow we are connected in a way that makes me look bad.

Do they support Conservitism? Yes they do. Why? Because conservitism IS ABOUT TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF. If you blow it is your fault. Do they go to far? Of course they do.

You make not think that you called me a racist but you infer that we are all of the same cloth. That is simply not the case. Conservitives accually are HARDER on THOSE WHO COMMIT HORRIBLE ACTIONS.

If you were trying to be cute or funny you are Sick, If you actually believe that because The Clan Is conservitive that make me like the clan on race relations than you are an IDIOT.
 

Soccerman

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I hate to say I told you so... though flames haven't erupted yet..

btw, read my last before this one, everyone seems to have skipped by it..

as for who tends to be more liberal or conservative, that's hard to say. I think it comes more from what kind of childhood and parents you have, then anything else. IMHO, if you believe in Christianity, you'd be more based on the left.

anywho, I could talk waayy too long, but seeing ass people here complain about long posts, I'll leave it at that for now..
 

almostmakingit

Senior member
Mar 3, 2001
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Now I'm thoroughly confused...

If We insist on government (state run schools) that are to mold the childrens minds early..

If We find religious groups to scapegoat and pick on..

If We seize and redistribute wealth..

and if we remove any notion of self determination, or self defense.. Are we liberal of Conservative?

Was Hitler, Liberal or Conservative?
 

Aihyah

Banned
Apr 21, 2000
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Hmm.. So I support the KKK? Now these are all words you have posted. You may not be calling my a racist but you are IMPLYING that somehow we are connected in a way that makes me look bad.


apparently u can't even read the qoutes you post yourself:p They support you and share many of your beleifs:p