if we can require licenses for guns, why not babies?

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
Yea...hyperbole but stories like this make me think it's worth exploring.

http://woodtv.com/2015/02/19/2-will-spend-life-in-prison-for-sexual-assault-of-1-year-old/

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (WOOD) — Both of the people who admitted to sexually assaulting a 1-year-old in 2012 will spend the rest of their lives in prison.
Thursday, Kent County Circuit Court Judge Dennis Lieber sentenced Michael Emory to three consecutive life sentences.
Stevie Foehl received one life sentence for a count of first-degree criminal sexual conduct and a concurrent sentence of between 13.3 and 20 years in prison for other convictions. She was also ordered to pay the Kent County Sheriff’s Department $1,437.
The pair pleaded guilty in January to multiple counts each for sexually assaulting a 1-year-old girl in their Alpine Township apartment in October 2012. They video-taped one other as they took turns assaulting the girl.
Authorities started investigating the pair after Emory allegedly coerced a Coopersville 14-year-old who he met online into a sexual relationship. They then discovered video evidence of the assault of the 1-year-old on Emory’s computer. Emory and Foehl were arrested in Spartanburg, S.C. in August 2013
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
How is this incident remotely related to the idea of licenses to have babies?

The article didn't claim it was the couple's baby at all...
 

Blanky

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 2014
2,457
12
46
There are many examples of this being a good idea, but it takes little imagination to think of ways in which the state would abuse it. enforcing it would also be rather horrific and the greatest experiment in control of humans ever attempted, if the government really decided it was something it wanted to do. You'd have to kidnap kids at puberty and give them some reversible treatment.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,553
7,723
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China already does to an extent.

I don't think people should need to acquire licenses. Instead, all women should be given free birth control from menarche, of whichever method they want. If they choose not to use it, they lose the ability to have an abortion, unless in cases of rape/incest, or danger to the mother.

Additionally, the state has to provide medical care to any and all pregnant women who want to give up their kid for adoption.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
China already does to an extent.

I don't think people should need to acquire licenses. Instead, all women should be given free birth control from menarche, of whichever method they want. If they choose not to use it, they lose the ability to have an abortion, unless in cases of rape/incest, or danger to the mother.

Additionally, the state has to provide medical care to any and all pregnant women who want to give up their kid for adoption.

WTF? We don't want people not smart enough to use contraception to have babies, we want to ensure that they abort them prior to 2nd trimester. We ought to be providing free abortions and free pregnancy testing to All. We need far less idiots, not more; we're allowing ourselves to be illegally invaded, we really have enough low level workers coming over as is.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,553
7,723
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WTF? We don't want people not smart enough to use contraception to have babies, we want to ensure that they abort them prior to 2nd trimester. We ought to be providing free abortions and free pregnancy testing to All. We need far less idiots, not more; we're allowing ourselves to be illegally invaded, we really have enough low level workers coming over as is.

I think you missed the part where free birth control is provided to every woman.

Unless you think that the government should be mandating abortion for all of the rabble you deem unworthy of having children.

WTF indeed.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
How about less licences. Enough paperwork as it is. What next a breathing licence? Use your stomach not your your ribs!
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
I think you missed the part where free birth control is provided to every woman.

Unless you think that the government should be mandating abortion for all of the rabble you deem unworthy of having children.

WTF indeed.

WTF indeed, indeed. The free BC makes sense, but what is this stuff about not getting an abortion if they don't use the BC? That doesn't even make sense. At all.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,553
7,723
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WTF indeed, indeed. The free BC makes sense, but what is this stuff about not getting an abortion if they don't use the BC? That doesn't even make sense. At all.

It's called compromise, which is why "it doesn't make sense. At all." to the average person who doesn't actually understand what goes into it.

But first, let's be clear on what we believe and don't believe.

I don't personally have a problem with allowing women to make decisions about the cells growing inside them, whether cancer, or a fetus. It's their body, so if they don't want it in there, then they should have the right to take it out. The logical extension is that I believe every person has the right to kill themselves. To end their own consciousness and physical life. Which means that a pregnant woman can kill herself, so why can't she terminate a mass of cells inside her, up to a certain point, of course. Because compromise.

That said, I don't cheer on every abortion as something inherently good. Preferably, women shouldn't get pregnant unless they want to get pregnant. Hence, provide every single woman inside the US with free birth control of their choosing. Pill, estrogen patch, IUD, whatever. Those things can play hell with their hormones, so they can find the method that works for them.

Once they have that form of birth control, they need to use it. If they choose not to use it/ accept it, then tough titties when they get knocked up. Unless it was from rape/incest, or if it turns out that having a child can kill them. Because compromise.

This does multiple things.

1. It should drastically reduce the amount of abortions in the US, which is ostensibly good compared to whatever the number is now. So, anyone who is anti-choice should support this compromise, because the perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good.

2. It makes the costs of birth control essentially zero for the average woman, so that it isn't an excuse.

3. Since we're virtually outlawing abortion for the vast majority of women, the state is clearly saying it has a vested interest in rearing up some fetuses. Which means the state gets to provide free healthcare for the pregnant mother so the fetus/kid can develop as well as possible so that it can one day be a functioning member of society.

I'm not sure what is complicated in understanding that by providing free BC to women, you are also saying that you either use it, or you carry that fetus to term.

Because compromise.

Or, we can require licenses for having children, or encourage women to abort their fetuses based on particular criteria that you get to pick.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
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It's called compromise, which is why "it doesn't make sense. At all." to the average person who doesn't actually understand what goes into it.

But first, let's be clear on what we believe and don't believe.

I don't personally have a problem with allowing women to make decisions about the cells growing inside them, whether cancer, or a fetus. It's their body, so if they don't want it in there, then they should have the right to take it out. The logical extension is that I believe every person has the right to kill themselves. To end their own consciousness and physical life. Which means that a pregnant woman can kill herself, so why can't she terminate a mass of cells inside her, up to a certain point, of course. Because compromise.

That said, I don't cheer on every abortion as something inherently good. Preferably, women shouldn't get pregnant unless they want to get pregnant. Hence, provide every single woman inside the US with free birth control of their choosing. Pill, estrogen patch, IUD, whatever. Those things can play hell with their hormones, so they can find the method that works for them.

Once they have that form of birth control, they need to use it. If they choose not to use it/ accept it, then tough titties when they get knocked up. Unless it was from rape/incest, or if it turns out that having a child can kill them. Because compromise.

This does multiple things.

1. It should drastically reduce the amount of abortions in the US, which is ostensibly good compared to whatever the number is now. So, anyone who is anti-choice should support this compromise, because the perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good.

2. It makes the costs of birth control essentially zero for the average woman, so that it isn't an excuse.

3. Since we're virtually outlawing abortion for the vast majority of women, the state is clearly saying it has a vested interest in rearing up some fetuses. Which means the state gets to provide free healthcare for the pregnant mother so the fetus/kid can develop as well as possible so that it can one day be a functioning member of society.

I'm not sure what is complicated in understanding that by providing free BC to women, you are also saying that you either use it, or you carry that fetus to term.

Because compromise.

Or, we can require licenses for having children, or encourage women to abort their fetuses based on particular criteria that you get to pick.


And if the birth control fails?

http://youngwomenshealth.org/2009/11/03/success-and-failure-rates-of-contraceptives/
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,553
7,723
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Well, first off, when you choose your method, you get taught how to use it, and the failure rate. This means the inherent failure rate, along with not using it properly, or at all.

Second, nothing is stopping the woman from asking the man to wear a condom, or for the woman to understand her own fertility cycle and when she is most likely fertile.

Third, there is no perfect answer to this question until Science™ develops some injectable form of BC that is basically 100% effective and can be synched to a smart phone so that the woman knows it is on or off, and controls it herself.

Fourth, depending on the method, if a woman can prove that she was actually using the BC correctly, then offer an exemption. I mean, money back guarantee type of exemption, if this doesn't work, come in for 1 Free Abortion.

So, either compromise, or go with the status quo. I don't personally have a problem with the status quo, as I stated. Like personal freedom? Then a woman has the right to remove cells growing inside of her that she doesn't want growing inside her. That said, I commented as a compromise to the whole abortion good/evil, licenses to procreate thing. I can't think of a more comprehensive compromise myself, but I'm probably biased.

Care to offer up something that allows women freedom to make their own decisions about their bodies, without it upsetting the FreeMensMovement™/Conservatives so much that they continue making it a perpetual wedge issue while TheMastersOfTheUniverse™ continue hollowing out our country for their own profit?
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
Well, first off, when you choose your method, you get taught how to use it, and the failure rate. This means the inherent failure rate, along with not using it properly, or at all.

Second, nothing is stopping the woman from asking the man to wear a condom, or for the woman to understand her own fertility cycle and when she is most likely fertile.

Third, there is no perfect answer to this question until Science™ develops some injectable form of BC that is basically 100% effective and can be synched to a smart phone so that the woman knows it is on or off, and controls it herself.

Fourth, depending on the method, if a woman can prove that she was actually using the BC correctly, then offer an exemption. I mean, money back guarantee type of exemption, if this doesn't work, come in for 1 Free Abortion.

So, either compromise, or go with the status quo. I don't personally have a problem with the status quo, as I stated. Like personal freedom? Then a woman has the right to remove cells growing inside of her that she doesn't want growing inside her. That said, I commented as a compromise to the whole abortion good/evil, licenses to procreate thing. I can't think of a more comprehensive compromise myself, but I'm probably biased.

Care to offer up something that allows women freedom to make their own decisions about their bodies, without it upsetting the FreeMensMovement™/Conservatives so much that they continue making it a perpetual wedge issue while TheMastersOfTheUniverse™ continue hollowing out our country for their own profit?

Thanks but I like the way it is here in Canada. The Supreme Court tossed out the old law and no government since would/will touch the issue with a 10 foot pole. Most people here don't see it as something that needs to be regulated by law and are happy with that. It's a medical procedure and fully covered under our universal medial insurance system and that's pretty much it.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,553
7,723
136
Thanks but I like the way it is here in Canada. The Supreme Court tossed out the old law and no government since would/will touch the issue with a 10 foot pole. Most people here don't see it as something that needs to be regulated by law and are happy with that. It's a medical procedure and fully covered under our universal medial insurance system and that's pretty much it.
Right, you have the unfortunate displeasure of living in a socialist hellhole.

Unlike you, I'm here in enlightened Georgia, USA!

Ethical treatment of Embryos

We in Georgia are taking the lead on this issue. Human life at all stages is precious including as an embryo. We need to get out in front of the science and technology, before it becomes something no one wants. The mixing of Human Embryos with Jellyfish cells to create a glow in the dark human, we say not in Georgia. This bill is about protecting Human life while maintaining good, valid research that does not destroy life.
http://kirbyforgeorgia.com/481-2/#prettyPhoto
 
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