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If USA and Canada converts all street and public lighting to LED or Compact Fluorescent..

Qianglong

Senior member
Lets say all street lighting (for the road and highways) are converted to high intensity LED instead of the current high pressure sodium bulbs, and public lighting are converted to Compact FLuorescent, how much will it help the environment by cutting down on electricity usage and therefore emission?

Also, would want to help the government to do the conversion but paying a one time fee of lets say $50 ~ $100?
 
I'm pretty sure that high pressure sodium lights are about the most efficient lights there are, even more than CFL and LED.
 
Originally posted by: Heisenberg
I'm pretty sure that high pressure sodium lights are about the most efficient lights there are, even more than CFL and LED.

I didn't think there was anything commercially available that was more efficient than LED.
 
There was an estimate that if all of the households in Canada switched to CFLs, it would save enough electricity to power a city of 100K people for a solid year. If all of North America did it, it could power a city of a million for a year. That's a decent amount of power saved, quite a few power plants that could be shut down.

No idea about street lighting, although there probably aren't nearly as many as there are lights in houses, I'm betting they draw more power, so perhaps the savings would be about the same? Different technology though, so I doubt it applies.
 
I'm pretty sure that high pressure sodium lights are about the most efficient lights there are, even more than CFL and LED.

I have no idea, but this link seems to indicate otherwise.

To answer the OP's question, I'd need to know what the expected breakeven point was and if there were any other externalities (like extremely hazardous byproducts from the manufacture of the newer lights). And I have no idea what you're saying in your second sentence.
 
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: Heisenberg
I'm pretty sure that high pressure sodium lights are about the most efficient lights there are, even more than CFL and LED.

I didn't think there was anything commercially available that was more efficient than LED.

I think low pressure sodium is the most efficient light source. LED is more efficient only for very dim lights. Even for for room lighting, flourescent still pwns LED.
 
The lights you see now on the street produces roughly 1300 lumens per watt. Its why it's such a dull color because the CRI factor is ridiclously low.

Anyways, to your discussion. it will help tremendously i'm sure.....
 
Originally posted by: glenn1
I'm pretty sure that high pressure sodium lights are about the most efficient lights there are, even more than CFL and LED.

I have no idea, but this link seems to indicate otherwise.

To answer the OP's question, I'd need to know what the expected breakeven point was and if there were any other externalities (like extremely hazardous byproducts from the manufacture of the newer lights). And I have no idea what you're saying in your second sentence.
That article mentions LED's that put out 150 lumens per watt. IIRC high pressure sodium lamps were/are about 140 lumens per watt. So it may be that LED's have finally surpassed sodium recently and I just didn't know.
 
Originally posted by: Sphexi
There was an estimate that if all of the households in Canada switched to CFLs, it would save enough electricity to power a city of 100K people for a solid year. If all of North America did it, it could power a city of a million for a year. That's a decent amount of power saved, quite a few power plants that could be shut down.

No idea about street lighting, although there probably aren't nearly as many as there are lights in houses, I'm betting they draw more power, so perhaps the savings would be about the same? Different technology though, so I doubt it applies.

With a population of almost 340million, how would North American be able to shut down a few power plants if it saved the power of 1 million, or less than 1/3rd of a percent of the population 😛
 
Originally posted by: Sphexi
There was an estimate that if all of the households in Canada switched to CFLs, it would save enough electricity to power a city of 100K people for a solid year. If all of North America did it, it could power a city of a million for a year. That's a decent amount of power saved, quite a few power plants that could be shut down.
Thats good because all those employees out of work so suddenly are going to hop on welfare.

 
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: Heisenberg
I'm pretty sure that high pressure sodium lights are about the most efficient lights there are, even more than CFL and LED.

I didn't think there was anything commercially available that was more efficient than LED.

🙂
 
Originally posted by: Sphexi
There was an estimate that if all of the households in Canada switched to CFLs, it would save enough electricity to power a city of 100K people for a solid year. If all of North America did it, it could power a city of a million for a year. That's a decent amount of power saved, quite a few power plants that could be shut down.

No idea about street lighting, although there probably aren't nearly as many as there are lights in houses, I'm betting they draw more power, so perhaps the savings would be about the same? Different technology though, so I doubt it applies.

That is quite a bit of energy save, but I doubt we'd really be able to shut down any power plants from that alone.

As for the OP. Well you'd have to look at the overall cost. How much will it cost to convert to more efficient lighting, will the new lights offer equal output (so will you need to add more lights to get the same coverage), and many other questions.
 
Originally posted by: mchammer
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: Heisenberg
I'm pretty sure that high pressure sodium lights are about the most efficient lights there are, even more than CFL and LED.

I didn't think there was anything commercially available that was more efficient than LED.

I think low pressure sodium is the most efficient light source. LED is more efficient only for very dim lights. Even for for room lighting, flourescent still pwns LED.


well, seeing how you are dead wrong about LED vs Flourescent, I have to assume you are wrong on the sodium also
 
Originally posted by: Heisenberg
I'm pretty sure that high pressure sodium lights are about the most efficient lights there are, even more than CFL and LED.

If it hasn't been said already, there's a reason bud growers use CFLs and LEDs instead of HPS (unless it's personal growing) they don't use nearly as much power.
 
Originally posted by: Qianglong
Lets say all street lighting (for the road and highways) are converted to high intensity LED instead of the current high pressure sodium bulbs, and public lighting are converted to Compact FLuorescent, how much will it help the environment by cutting down on electricity usage and therefore emission?

Also, would want to help the government to do the conversion but paying a one time fee of lets say $50 ~ $100?

LEDs don't cost money, they save money

AND the environment at the same time. I don't see why those "FAT CATS" in Washington won't do it.
 
The trend is toward more efficient LED's with better color rendering while lowering the price. LED's like HID/CFL lighting cannot be driven directly off utility mains either so drivers are needed on both accords. In the next 5-10 years a transition to LED is very realistic. We're looking into it right now. :Q

Perhaps the best use for current (monochromatic) LED technology now is traffic signals. You can spot an LED immediately by its very true color and when it turns on and off its sharp attack and decay times. Incandescent lamps have particularly long decay times. Invisible (IR) LED's can also be used for other purposes - to send out encoded messages to receivers in motorcars for emergencies, traffic conditions, and who knows what else. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: MS Dawn
Perhaps the best use for current (monochromatic) LED technology now is traffic signals. You can spot an LED immediately by its very true color and when it turns on and off its sharp attack and decay times. Incandescent lamps have particularly long decay times. Invisible (IR) LED's can also be used for other purposes - to send out encoded messages to receivers in motorcars for emergencies, traffic conditions, and who knows what else. 🙂
I love the pure green LEDs. It's such a very perfect color.
Again, I'm also glad to see I'm not the only one to notice little things like the response time of LEDs vs incandescent.🙂 I can always spot LED indicators on cars and trucks by how quickly they turn on and off.

I do notice something odd though in cars - some of the LEDs seem to blink rapidly, which I generally see in things powered by AC, which I assume just relies on the LED to deal with keeping the power flowing the right way. Is it just because the alternator puts out a lousy DC waveform, or is it a cheap LED driver?

 
Originally posted by: Jeff7

I do notice something odd though in cars - some of the LEDs seem to blink rapidly, which I generally see in things powered by AC, which I assume just relies on the LED to deal with keeping the power flowing the right way. Is it just because the alternator puts out a lousy DC waveform, or is it a cheap LED driver?

They are driven with PWM regulators and because of the rapid attack/decay the pulses are noticeable. Take a solar cell and connect it to a recording device and you will convert this into an audible waveform. 🙂

An incandescent light can actually "transmit" its driven frequency too! Light from a standard bulb running on 60Hz ac will superimpose a feeble hum into a loudspeaker that's driven by an amp with a simple silicon solar cell attached to its input. Beware though if you try this and the amplifier is powerful the speaker may be destroyed if the light is turned on and off while the amp is turned up. If the amp can amplify single digit frequencies it will also severely stress the speaker's voice coil and challenge its travel limits! :Q

 
Originally posted by: Sphexi
There was an estimate that if all of the households in Canada switched to CFLs, it would save enough electricity to power a city of 100K people for a solid year. If all of North America did it, it could power a city of a million for a year. That's a decent amount of power saved, quite a few power plants that could be shut down.

No idea about street lighting, although there probably aren't nearly as many as there are lights in houses, I'm betting they draw more power, so perhaps the savings would be about the same? Different technology though, so I doubt it applies.

Saving the power demands of a city of a million = quite a few power plants?

While very gradually replacing the high pressure sodium lamps with piles of LED's (as the lamps failed) would save some energy, simply removing a perfectly good high pressure sodium lamp and replacing it with and LED would actually increase the power demands: LED's just don't grow on trees; it takes energy to make them. It'd be like tearing a house down and rebuilding it so you could squeeze in an extra half inch of insulation. (shot in the dark approximation)

Oh, also a consideration: in colder climates, particularly 2 story homes where the majority of lighting used is on the lower floor, the claim that energy is "saved" is exaggerated. The "wasted" energy of an incandescent bulb is heat - heat for your home. The only energy wasted (during the months you're heating your home) is the light that shines through your window to the outside. I probably should point out that in the big picture, this is true in homes that have electric heating. In homes with fossil fuel heating (coal, natural gas, propane, or oil), these fuels can be turned into heat at the home with far more efficiency than they can be converted to electricity at a power plant, and then sent to the home where they ultimately are changed back into heat.

i.e.
fossil fuel -> electricity -> home -> CFL bulb in a house with electric heat when it's cold outside: no energy is saved. The incandescent bulb's heat is not "wasted energy."

fossil fuel -> home -> heat;
small amount of fossil fuel -> electricity -> home -> CFL = saved energy. Not at the household level; the house uses just as much energy; but the inherent inefficiency of conversion of fossil fuels to electricity is where the savings occurs.

And, in my case,
3 tons of coal -> nice bright fire in the coal stove -> keeping my house at 75 to 80 degrees in the main living areas, cooler in the bedrooms for sleeping -> I can enjoy the nice warm glow of the fire and not turn on any lightbulbs in the room with the stove -> at a very small fraction of the cost to heat with any other fuel.
 
Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Depression would be at an all time high. Fluorescent lights really make me tired and tend to bring me down.

I agree. I love seeing the orange city lights when I drive around.
 
Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Depression would be at an all time high. Fluorescent lights really make me tired and tend to bring me down.

LOL the conversion would be to LED NOT fluorescent.

The worst looking streetlights were uncoated mercury vapor lamps. Yuck!
 
In Toronto, the city is piloting a project with LED based street lighting. Hopefully it will take off and become the norm in the coming years.

I am sure a few Luxeon 5W LED grouped together will product enough light to light up the streets 😛 Just look at the surefire flashlight.
 
Originally posted by: Qianglong
In Toronto, the city is piloting a project with LED based street lighting. Hopefully it will take off and become the norm in the coming years.

I am sure a few Luxeon 5W LED grouped together will product enough light to light up the streets 😛 Just look at the surefire flashlight.

LS' are yesterday's news now. 😉

Wait until you see what's coming by next Creesmas. :laugh:
 
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