"If u reflexively oppose antifa today, u probably would have opposed lunch counter sit-ins in 1960"

[Starbuck1975]

I know you are very concerned about neo-Nazis not having a safe space and getting ass kicked.

Cliche and predictable

 

[werepossum]

I don't remember any lunch counter sit-in participants covered their faces and bodies all in black and ganged up and beat up their opponents with bats, sticks, and other items.

Agreed.

There are some damned stupid people employed by universities nowadays.

 

[werepossum]

Holy shit, you literally just claimed Antifa is equally if not worse than Nazis (which includes literally the the Nazis).

I would agree that its not good to support Antifa, as they are pushing for actual anarchy and share a lot of ideological aims as many "libertarians" in the US (the ones that actively want to overthrow government so they can live in their dystopian utopia). But you really need to actually look at what you're saying as its is straight up bullshit. Hell even comparing Antifa in Europe against the neo-Nazis and white supremacists (Anders Breivik alone has done every bit as much as Antifa), and thus far in the US, Antfia is nowhere even remotely close to what those groups have done here (Timothy McVeigh among others; hell the Charlottesville piece of shit alone, not to mention Dylan Roof, and there's sadly a lot more).

Damnit, copy-pasted text which is why the font changed at the end.

Antifa are NOT anarchists. They are the far left's stormtroopers. A far left progressive or even communist can come to Berkeley and give a speech about vastly expanding the scope and power of government without Antifa making a peep.

 

[Roflmouth]

Great thread from a CUNY professor & historian.

https://twitter.com/studentactivism/status/902972639379161092

LOL, more crying and sobbing because Trump dragged those antifa thugs out of the shadows and into the cold, hard light of day, I see. Don't worry, they're only several hundred more beatings away from everyone realizing they're actually peaceful.

 

[Roflmouth]

Holy shit, you literally just claimed Antifa is equally if not worse than Nazis (which includes literally the the Nazis).

I would agree that its not good to support Antifa, as they are pushing for actual anarchy and share a lot of ideological aims as many "libertarians" in the US (the ones that actively want to overthrow government so they can live in their dystopian utopia). But you really need to actually look at what you're saying as its is straight up bullshit. Hell even comparing Antifa in Europe against the neo-Nazis and white supremacists (Anders Breivik alone has done every bit as much as Antifa), and thus far in the US, Antfia is nowhere even remotely close to what those groups have done here (Timothy McVeigh among others; hell the Charlottesville piece of shit alone, not to mention Dylan Roof, and there's sadly a lot more).

Damnit, copy-pasted text which is why the font changed at the end.

And communists killed tens of millions of people in the Soviet Union and China in the last century. Get a standard.

 

[realibrad]

"White and Negro high school boys squared off in a parking lot fight here today in the worst outbreak of violence in the South's two weeks of demonstrations at lunch counters.

The Police said 250 youngsters of both races milled around the lot as an uncounted number of fist fights broke out. Some of the combatants carried hammers and wrenches.

One white boy received emergency hospital treatment for cuts on his face and left ear, which the police said they believed had been inflicted by a razor. The boy was released after receiving eleven stitches.

The police arrested three Negro high school pupils at the parking lot tonight. One of them pulled a claw hammer from his pocket, Detective Charles L. Ragland Jr. said, and "we scuffled and fell to the ground."

Other policemen subdued the Negro, and he and the two other were take to Police headquarters.

The melee followed another effort by Negroes to obtain service at white-only lunch counter. The movement began in North Carolina about two weeks ago. The police said today's fracas began after a large group of Negro pupils had arrived at Rose's Department Store in a downtown shopping center here and found the forty seats at the lunch counter occupied by white pupils.

The Negroes crowded in back of the white youngsters, witnesses said, and began heckling, pushing and shoving. A few Negroes obtained seats."

Luv to bring razors and claw hammers to my totally 100% non-violent protest.

So you cant understand then?

If I bring a razor to a gay pride parade does that make the parade violent? If a fight breaks out at the parade, does that make it a violent parade?

What people are saying is that you can protest violently or non-violently. A sit-in is a non violent form of protest. People like the non-violent forms of protest. Just because there are non-violent types of protest does not mean there are not violent forms of protest. Just because some protest non-violently does not mean others will not use violent forms. Quite amazing that you are having trouble with this. Its pretty simple really.

 

[Thebobo]

The professor's argument was not that the groups behaved in the same manner, or even that the antifa are always justified or correct in what they do. If you bothered to read the thread, you would know that.

Why read when you can attack!

 

[HTFOff]

Yes, antifa are truly the devil

Blood and Soil!

Good-morrow my elderly canadian friend.

Your romanticization of Pantifa has been anything but reticent. Therefor I truly understand your longing to be young again and "fight the good fight".

Unfortunately, you will be long dead before your blatantly ANTI 1st Amendment fantasies come to fruition. Ergo, you have no skin in this game like most rest of us who will be around to clean up the mess.

Yours Truly,

HTFOff

 

[Blackjack200]

So you cant understand then?

If I bring a razor to a gay pride parade does that make the parade violent? If a fight breaks out at the parade, does that make it a violent parade?

Parades are not confrontational in nature. If protestors bring weapons to a protest or demonstration, and then use them, it's kind of hard to argue that it's a non-violent protest.

What people are saying is that you can protest violently or non-violently. A sit-in is a non violent form of protest. People like the non-violent forms of protest. Just because there are non-violent types of protest does not mean there are not violent forms of protest. Just because some protest non-violently does not mean others will not use violent forms. Quite amazing that you are having trouble with this. Its pretty simple really.

Luv to surround white kids sitting on stools and start harassing them and shoving them as part of my non-violent protest.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Good-morrow my elderly canadian friend.

Your romanticization of Pantifa has been anything but reticent. Therefor I truly understand your longing to be young again and "fight the good fight".

Unfortunately, you will be long dead before your blatantly ANTI 1st Amendment fantasies come to fruition. Ergo, you have no skin in this game like most rest of us who will be around to clean up the mess.

Yours Truly,

HTFOff

I'm not romanticizing anything asshole. Simply tired of apologists for nazis/fascists doing the whole false equivalence thing. When you do that it simply shows you for an ass. Enjoy being an ass.

 

[Svnla]

The professor's argument was not that the groups behaved in the same manner, or even that the antifa are always justified or correct in what they do. If you bothered to read the thread, you would know that.

I did read it and my point still stands. Peaceful protest by lunch counter non violent protesters >>>>>>>>>>> gang up and beat up opponents with weapons by antifa thugs. Sure, the lunch counter protesters were not perfect by any means but feel free to post a link or two about how those lunch counter protesters organized, ganged up and beat up anyone with sticks and bats just because their views were different and then chased their opponents to beat them up some more as antifa.

Lunch counter protesters wanted to be treat EQUAL but antifa just want to beat people up (see links below). Lunch counter protesters did not cover their faces to hide like cowards as antifa. See the difference yet?

Even liberal news sources and Pelosi are calling antifa out =

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...-attack-right-wing-demonstrators-in-berkeley/

http://www.latimes.com/local/califo...ws-as-the-number-of-1503866891-htmlstory.html

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...berkeley-clashes/ar-AAqXs5l?OCID=ansmsnnews11

 

[werepossum]

99% of the Nazis don't even go outside, they just sit in their mum's basement as angry adults.

So fucking what? Antifa is a violent group that hates all there is to hate about western society. Fuck them and everyone who supports them, they are as bad as the Nazis.

I agree that Antifa are a violent group of far lefties every bit as fascist as they can even imagine about the right and I cannot stand them, but I disagree that they are as bad as Nazis. The ONLY historical example of Nazis is World War II Germany; the movement was born, flourished, and thankfully was stamped out in one generation. Therefore anyone professing the Nazi ethos must support their unique blend of racism, racial superiority, and genocide. The left wing agenda items are freely available in other groups without Nazi affiliation, as is the nationalism and other right wing elements. Even Fascism has much less virulent examples like Italy or Spain, although admittedly neither example has anything to recommend it. It's not like even Communists, since there have been small, peaceful communes and even Communist governments that at least weren't racist, genocidal, or even intentionally more murderous than is required to remain in power. There is NO such group with the Nazi ethos in history. Nor did the Nazi party in any way limit its evil to that necessary to retain power; instead they committed genocide on groups with zero power or ability to ever form any real threat.

Literally no other group in the world is that bad. Literally no other group in the world is even close. I'd be happy if the Antifa and the neo-Nazis annihilated one another, but Antifa is not even close in evil. No one is.

 

[realibrad]

Parades are not confrontational in nature. If protestors bring weapons to a protest or demonstration, and then use them, it's kind of hard to argue that it's a non-violent protest.

No, its really not. Its actually amazing that you assume a weapon implies offense. A weapon can be used in defense or offense. Knowing that people are violent and that they may attack you for peaceful protests, it would seem quite reasonable to bring weapons in case of violence.

Again, you are not using logic here. The sit-in is non-violent. Just because others use violent methods or acts does not change the tool of protesting that is non-violent. Try this one more time... think of the hypothetical I gave you about protesting outside of a church saying there is no god. I would expect that it should go peacefully but it may not. It would not be unreasonable for me to use violence to protect myself if someone started attacking me. In the case that happens, it does not mean that my sign saying there is no god being held above my head is violent.

Luv to surround white kids sitting on stools and start harassing them and shoving them as part of my non-violent protest.

You may not realize this, as I suspect that you are not all that able to understand things you disagree with, but surrounding people and harassing them is not a sit-in. Its also not a sit-in shooting them, stabbing them, kicking them ect. So, if you can, try to think critically.

 

[Jhhnn]

Antifa are NOT anarchists. They are the far left's stormtroopers. A far left progressive or even communist can come to Berkeley and give a speech about vastly expanding the scope and power of government without Antifa making a peep.

Because that speaker would not be a Nazi or White Supremacist, people you acknowledge to be the worst.

 

[Jhhnn]

LOL, more crying and sobbing because Trump dragged those antifa thugs out of the shadows and into the cold, hard light of day, I see. Don't worry, they're only several hundred more beatings away from everyone realizing they're actually peaceful.

Please. Trump dog whistled every right wing fascist bigot in America out from under their rocks. He still is. That's what the Arpaio pardon is all about.

 

[MajinCry]

Antifa are fascist? Do they have supporting corporate entities that benefit from their actions? 'Scuse me if I'm wrong, but isn't fascism when corporations hold the power?

Actually, just looked it up the now. I'm gonna go with Orwell's definition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#George_Orwell

Fascism, at any rate the German version, is a form of capitalism that borrows from Socialism just such features as will make it efficient for war purposes... It is a planned system geared to a definite purpose, world-conquest, and not allowing any private interest, either of capitalist or worker, to stand in its way.

Not sure how Antifa fits that bill.

 

[Jhhnn]

Antifa are fascist? Do they have supporting corporate entities that benefit from their actions? 'Scuse me if I'm wrong, but isn't fascism when corporations hold the power?

Actually, just looked it up the now. I'm gonna go with Orwell's definition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#George_Orwell

Fascism, at any rate the German version, is a form of capitalism that borrows from Socialism just such features as will make it efficient for war purposes... It is a planned system geared to a definite purpose, world-conquest, and not allowing any private interest, either of capitalist or worker, to stand in its way.

Not sure how Antifa fits that bill.

They don't. White supremacists differ from Nazis only in the scope of what they want to achieve.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Antifa are fascist? Do they have supporting corporate entities that benefit from their actions? 'Scuse me if I'm wrong, but isn't fascism when corporations hold the power?

Actually, just looked it up the now. I'm gonna go with Orwell's definition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#George_Orwell

Fascism, at any rate the German version, is a form of capitalism that borrows from Socialism just such features as will make it efficient for war purposes... It is a planned system geared to a definite purpose, world-conquest, and not allowing any private interest, either of capitalist or worker, to stand in its way.

Not sure how Antifa fits that bill.

They kill kittens and punch nazis. They are the antichrist.

 

[woolfe9998]

Trump is horrible, but most of the horrible shit he's doing - wrecking the environment, brutalizing immigrants, and bombing innocent people in the Middle East, liberal Obama was doing too.

No, Obama didn't do a fraction of the "horrible shit" that Trump is doing on a daily basis. Abusing rivals like a child over twitter? Inflaming tensions with foreign powers- allied and otherwise - by acting like a barbarian? Lying to the public every five minutes? Playing up xenophobia as a way to win elections? Appointing loons, conspiracy theorists, and incompetents to important government positions? Vilifying Muslims and Mexicans? And even with the examples you've given, I can't agree. On the environment especially. Obama not only rejected the Keystone pipeline, but his stimulus bill was a major factor in a large expansion of solar and wind power in the US, which growth curve continues today. While Trump made us one of three countries on the planet to not be in the Paris Accord.

Obama was nowhere near perfect, but I'm going to have to reject this statement as a poorly conceived false equivalence.

 

[FFFF]

These are the kind of academics that vote to censor speech on universities grounds.

Pure lunatics.

 

[1sikbITCH]

I don't remember any lunch counter sit-in participants covered their faces and bodies all in black and ganged up and beat up their opponents with bats, sticks, and other items.

That would be the people they protested against.

 

[Stokely]

So were the sit-ins themselves violent, or were the reaction to them violent? That's an important difference. I don't know that much about them but some quick googling mentioning violence is talking about the reaction.

 

[HomerJS]

I don't remember any lunch counter sit-in participants covered their faces and bodies all in black and ganged up and beat up their opponents with bats, sticks, and other items.

I do remember at least reading a history book, Allies shooting Nazis and nobody made a moral equivalence between the two

 

[Jhhnn]

So were the sit-ins themselves violent, or were the reaction to them violent? That's an important difference. I don't know that much about them but some quick googling mentioning violence is talking about the reaction.

Anybody who thinks segregation was maintained by peaceful means is out of their minds.

 

[Starbuck1975]

There is a good article on the Atlantic that breaks this discussion down nicely because it talks about "means" vs "ends".

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...-the-alt-right-and-black-lives-matter/538320/

For Nazis and white supremists, because their "ends" are immoral, it is irrelevant to defend or justify their "means", and they should therefore not expect or receive free speech protections. There is precedence that hate speech is not free speech.

For antifa, their "ends" are seemingly moral, but their "means" are not always, not to mention that their anarchist tendencies really don't fit in a rational society, regardless of who they may be "fighting" at the present moment. We have government agencies far better equipped to monitor and keep extremists under a watchful eye and in check. Vigilante violence never ends well.