If there was a WH40k MMOFPS...

[maniacalpha1-1]

Like PS2, but with an eye for more strategy and less of the recent "everyone must be equally able to rape each other", meaning a space marine/chaos space marine would be heavily armored against regular infantry and able to kill them by the dozens with barely a scratch, and also Titans (none of this "no superheavy vehicle units") what faction would you play? Ork, Chaos(there could be multiple factions per chaos god), Imperium, or?

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Space Marines are just too OP to allow in a MMO in their current lore form because they would can often chew through any regular waves of human infantry be they IG or cultists with ease according to lore and TT.

That doesn't mean they are invincible just that you need to mass firepower and troops to defeat them. The downside of Space Marines is that they relatively only comprise less than 1% of humanities forces which number in the trillions given that in the IoM humanity has basically spread all over the Milky Way and most people live in hive worlds which often have populations which number in the billions.

So you would have to either gimp Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines severely so that they don't automatically curb stomp the single average player or not allow them to be played in game period.

However if I could play a 40K MMO I would be torn between playing a Eisenhorn type inquisitor or a Adeptus Astartes be it loyalist or traitor, etc.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Space Marines are just too OP to allow in a MMO in their current lore form because they would can often chew through any regular waves of human infantry be they IG or cultists with ease according to lore and TT.

That doesn't mean they are invincible just that you need to mass firepower and troops to defeat them. The downside of Space Marines is that they relatively only comprise less than 1% of humanities forces which number in the trillions given that in the IoM humanity has basically spread all over the Milky Way and most people live in hive worlds which often have populations which number in the billions.

So you would have to either gimp Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines severely so that they don't automatically curb stomp the single average player or not allow them to be played in game period.

However if I could play a 40K MMO I would be torn between playing a Eisenhorn type inquisitor or a Adeptus Astartes be it loyalist or traitor, etc.

Nah. Ig would be able to call in artillery. The point of team based games is not to allow one person to be able to destroy everyone they come across. Squad Commanders should be able to call in artillery from either off map Earthshakers, or on map artillery units.

The game would be limited to that there would be fewer marines than IG, but Marines get dreadnoughts, Terminators, etc etc etc.

Of course, IG also gets access to plasma and melta guns, which would rip through marines.

I would play Mechanicus, or IG.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Nah. Ig would be able to call in artillery.

Maybe in a open battle field but Space Marine forces do not use the IG doctrines of warfare, i.e. massing forces and then attacking in a war of attrition.

Given that their numbers are usually low in a theater of operation (especially post-HH era) compared to other forces this means that most chapters of Space Marines are very tactical in how they engage an enemy (even though their methods of warfare may vary along with styles of battle itself) and they usually almost always seek to strike at the heart of the enemy/objective usually by attacking its command and control center.

The point of team based games is not to allow one person to be able to destroy everyone they come across. The game would be limited to that there would be fewer marines than IG.

Which basically means gimping Space Marines.

Of course, IG also gets access to plasma and melta guns, which would rip through marines.

Space Marines have access to all that stuff and have the ability to not need a 2-3 man crew to be able to lug it around or use it on the battlefield.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Maybe in a open battle field but Space Marine forces do not use the IG doctrines of warfare, i.e. massing forces and then attacking in a war of attrition.

Given that their numbers are usually low in a theater of operation (especially post-HH era) compared to other forces this means that most chapters of Space Marines are very tactical in how they engage an enemy (even though their methods of warfare may vary along with styles of battle itself) and they usually almost always seek to strike at the heart of the enemy/objective usually by attacking its command and control center.



Which basically means gimping Space Marines.



Space Marines have access to all that stuff and have the ability to not need a 2-3 man crew to be able to lug it around or use it on the battlefield.

Who cares? Its a game. That's like arguing that the Battlefield series is stupid because you would never use tank that way. Space marines would have access to drop pods and teleporters for their "quick strike" capabilities. but its stupid to think its possible to put in every single aspect of the fluff into the game.

Why not just use orbital bombardments? Or hell, just open up a warp rift, and GG the entire map.

Who cares if they gimp space marines numbers wise? Is this supposed to be counter strike where every single player is effectively on the same ground as another? Planetside 2 effectively limits the number of certain units that a team can field and no one complains about that.

Also I don't know what game you play where IG needs 2-3 men crew to use melta or plasma guns. They are 1 man units.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Who cares? Its a game. That's like arguing that the Battlefield series is stupid because you would never use tank that way. Space marines would have access to drop pods and teleporters for their "quick strike" capabilities. but its stupid to think its possible to put in every single aspect of the fluff into the game.

Why not just use orbital bombardments? Or hell, just open up a warp rift, and GG the entire map.

Who cares if they gimp space marines numbers wise? Is this supposed to be counter strike where every single player is effectively on the same ground as another? Planetside 2 effectively limits the number of certain units that a team can field and no one complains about that.

Also I don't know what game you play where IG needs 2-3 men crew to use melta or plasma guns. They are 1 man units.

Relax.

I don't really care myself either but I was only responding to your comments to clear out the inconsistencies and trying to explain why SM would either have to be severely gimped in their iteration in a MMO game compared to what people would expect from them or overpowered if they were to reflect what people envision in terms of their lethality in game that revolves around combat.

As for the last part I was actually thinking about lascannons, auto-cannons, etc which SM/CSM use as individual heavy weapons but regular IG need a 2-3 man team to use.

 

[alcoholbob]

How about you start the game as IG, and if you get to a high enough level, they induct you in the Space Marines.

 

[KaOTiK]

How about you start the game as IG, and if you get to a high enough level, they induct you in the Space Marines.

Lore wise it wouldn't make sense at all. SM chapters select the cream of the crop of young males. They have to be young (like pre/early teen) because the genoseed that is implanted in them that changes their bodies only works on ones that age.

My choice, if I knew I could pilot a Titan, IG, otherwise SM I love them too much. Though Eldar would be high up there as well.

 

[notposting]

Would be difficult -- as mentioned, SM are so strong everyone would have to be one. And gimping the heck out of them, kind of defeats the purpose. Look at Space Marine...they were basically bad assssss in that game. Which was completely appropriate (and fun). I think they would have to be NPC characters, making cameo appearances.

But I loves me some WH40K, so I dunno...if someone could make it work...yeaaaah.

 

[DigDog]

Rogue Trader > WHM40K.

Back when one beak-nosed space marine would be worth six orks. If there was such a mmo, i wouldnt play it

 

[splat_ed]

Personally, I'd be all for the Orcs... bring on da madboyz!

(I used to tabletop with an Orc army back when they had hop-splat guns - great for wiping out the enemy army, or your own if they bounced the wrong way - and the old, admittedly game-slowing, rules for madboyz...)

 

[KaOTiK]

Personally, I'd be all for the Orcs... bring on da madboyz!

(I used to tabletop with an Orc army back when they had hop-splat guns - great for wiping out the enemy army, or your own if they bounced the wrong way - and the old, admittedly game-slowing, rules for madboyz...)

Orcs in 40k and fantasy always have lots of ways of killing their own, especially in fantasy lol. They are always fun armies that is for sure.

 

[Zenoth]

The developers (whomever they may be) wouldn't respect the lore letter-by-letter in a WH40K game, simply because it wouldn't be practical to do so for a WH40K video game, be it MMO or anything else. It would otherwise need to be specified that the game in question is a "real take" on the actual lore rather than something more... say... adventurous and daring (therefor not exactly respecting all aspects of the lore). The original Dawn of War is a good balance demonstration of pure game-play related adjustments VS fluff elements/inspiration and "rules" so that it can ultimately be enjoyed as a video game per se. If you want lore with entertainment you can play tabletop WH40K. Although I do agree that DoW2 on its own even though is a video game does portray at the very least the Space Marines in a more "lore-friendly" manner than the original DoW did with its massive armies (of Space Marines that is) on the field at once (whereas in DoW2 it is more focused on specific squads with named infantry, as it "should" have been if you want to point at the lore as a reference material prior to developing the game).

Additionally, a lot (if not most) of the gamers whom happen to simply "like" the WH40K franchise due to either Dawn of War or DOW2 (or any other DoW games) haven't touched tabletop WH40K in their life and probably never read a single WH40K novel or codex. That in itself isn't a "bad thing" at all, but the developers wouldn't necessarily make a WH40K game "just for the franchise fans" whom happen to know the actual lore in details. That probably wouldn't be financially viable enough, so they'd have to go fishing where the fish bites. The targeted audience of pretty much any WH40K game wouldn't mind or at least wouldn't be aware of the "real lore" of the WH40K universe (at least not in details), and therefor wouldn't exactly "complain" that 'x' or 'y' scenario presented in any WH40K game makes "sense" (or not) such as playing as Space Marines and devastating hills after hills of fixed fodder cultist mooks to level up from in a MMORPG style game.

They could easily make an MMORPG out of the WH40K franchise though, you can make an MMORPG out of pretty much anything anyway. That doesn't mean it'll be successful, I'm just saying you can make an MMORPG out of anything really. But if they do they'll have to "adjust" (balance) both lore and/or game-play mechanics so that it can be enjoyed by everyone, especially if they are paying a monthly fee (heck even if it was F2P). I for one love the video games "take" on the WH40K universe. I do prefer the way it is portrayed and detailed from the novels and the codex entries, and I did play my share of tabletop WH40K a couple of years ago (haven't since at least a good six years or so by now though). But ultimately I also like the games (especially DoW1), although I perceive them as an alternate "vision" of the universe since I understand that for the current WH40K games that we do have none of them could actually follow each and every single cemented rules (and events as depicted in novels or codex) of the real WH40K fluff to be what they are.

I think I would actually really like a WH40K MMORPG (or MMO FPS), probably action-based with dynamic combat in the veins of TERA (can't really look back at the single-target selection system anymore since I played TERA's dynamic combat system, I think I'm spoiled now). I wouldn't mind much about the lore in such a game and that's the entire point I guess. If I want WH40K lore I won't look for that in a WH40K game as a general rule, especially not in one that is an MMORPG. If the devs feel like it they could have players of such an MMORPG be able to create a male or female characters of any factions you can think of and they'd probably all end up in the same hub worlds or cities together which wouldn't make any sense whatsoever, but in the game itself it could still be enjoyable for "what it is", rather than "what it 'should' be". Can you imagine Dark Eldars players buying goods from NPC Chaos Space Marines vendors in an Imperium of Man Hive World (hub) whilst a mob of Craftworld Eldar, Kroot, Space Marines, IG grunts and Orcs go about their daily business in the surroundings, without a single fight? Well not "in the lore", sure, but in a video game that wants to be an MMORPG "based on" the WH40K universe? Heck why not.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Bear in mind that I am talking about a first person shooter, in an FPS you wouldn't need to have problems like having factions that totally hate each other interacting on certain neutral worlds. It would just be a matter of how do you avoid gimping certain units...

I suppose WH40k might be a little tough for MMOFPS treatment. Maybe Star Wars would be better...WH40k couldn't probably go without space marines, but SW certainly could leave Jedi out of the playable classes and just give us a combined land/air/space MMOFPS.

 

[EDUSAN]

a game like Defiance could be used as the base to a WH40K MMO. With a lot of shooting...

but the thing is that it would need to be over the top at everything. Space Marines are killing machines of flesh and bones.
You cant do 3 enemies vs 1 SM. Their bolters Ammo is like shooting rockets.
The game would need to throw at you waves and waves of orks and bigger and bigger enemies.

Although im pretty sure that, twisting a bit the lore, they could come up with a story that would make it worth it without nerfing the SM for no reason (maybe the seed got corrupted and every new SM is weaker than the original ones, the emperor has betrayed them and is doing something to them, maybe the enemies came up with some kind of kryptonite for SM)

would love to play one though, but i wouldnt like it to be as slow paced as regular MMOs

 

[Daverino]

My thinking would be that the triangular fighting in a Space Marines MMO would be SM->Orks->Eldar. Factions like the IG and the Necrons would be NPCs, at least to start. Necrons would be endgame stuff, I would think.

 

[Possessed Freak]

Rogue Trader > WHM40K.

Back when one beak-nosed space marine would be worth six orks.

Yeah and people would demand Squats in an expansion.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Isn't the basic lore that space marines are hulking death machines simply because everything they fight is a hulking death machine? They use bolters because nothing short of a rocket explosion will stop an orc, Eldar have been practicing warfare for centuries if not millenia, Necrons are damn near impossible to actually stop, and so on?

Isn't this a case where most everybody who isn't an IG is basically on a par with dem Spess Mehreens?

 

[EDUSAN]

i pretty much think that orks are not that hard to kill, but they are waaaay too many.

But yeah... they have IG as a power meter. If a IG can kill it, it was weak (?)

 

[PowerYoga]

In the name of balance it wouldn't be realistic to have space marines playable at all, they're just too OP. I'd also say people wouldn't like to be 1 shotted left and right by a space marine terminator either. This actually reminds me of some asian mmorpg where the top player of the server gets to be the "raid boss" for a week or something.

To be realistic, having space marines or even other races playable would really mean the need to balance each race and not respecting the lore. See the dawn of war series: space marine units are balanced by having more hp per unit but smaller squad sizes.

 

[EDUSAN]

not being able to play a space marine would make the game like...95% less attractive to me

i just wanna be one...

i guess everyone would love a game like W40K: Space Marine, but with some kind of RPG thing with skills and something like that... and MMO

 

[PowerYoga]

I mean, keeping in mind that the majority of the battles in wh40k occurs between the IG vs everyone else with SMs being combo breakers...

people love the SM because they're big and awesome and filled with OPness, but even in the tabletop games they are balanced for gaming purposes.

 

[EDUSAN]

well... the game would need to be all about critical missions in which the IG couldnt handle it.

or maybe there could be a way to make the SP numbers low. Maybe something like: Each week 25% of the max level human population would be given the chance to be a Space Marine for a week. So, eventually everyone will be able to be a SM, without making the server filled with SM ...

i dont know... im not in the gaming industry, but i guess that with a bit of thought they could make it work... they just need to think and not copy

 

[PowerYoga]

If that's the case then wouldn't the SMs just play like normal avatars instead of the superhuman ones like they're supposed to be?

I mean if they're fighting greater demons, warbosses and taking down chaos titans all the time it wouldn't feel very special at all. I guess a good case study to look at would be star wars galaxies. Everybody wanted to be a jedi because they were supposed to be awesome and super cool and casuals couldn't get them, but when they lowered the bar so that everyone was a jedi it didn't feel very special to be one at all. It's difficult to "balance" something that's supposed to be uber and not take away from the feel of "uberness", especially in a FPS.

I think overall it would just have to be about balance. I wouldn't mind a type of progression gameplay where you started out as a initiate and worked your way up to 1st company terminators.

 

[EDUSAN]

the problem is that EVERYONE will eventually get to wear a Terminator Armor. Thats basically the issue in the MMO system.

Maybe make your characters die eventually in combat in a very honorable way once you get to be a Space Marine, so you have to start all over (but you should get something out, some kind of "special" exp, or something) with a new char.

that would make the space marines numbers low.

Maybe an event every week that is SUPER HARD and every Space Marine is summoned to that battle. And the enemy should be able to like..wipe half the space marines