If there is really a God then why do people NEED a book to tell them what is right and wrong

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Beachboy
I think a better question would be "If there was no book then would God exist?".

Better question but still just as stupid and trollish as the OP.

Answer your first one .. why are the religious people so uptight and desiring to call me names?

Sigh...

First, I am not religious. I just hate ignorance in all forms. Religious studies are fascinating IMO, even from secular/atheist points of view. Perhaps you should try educating yourself?

Second, God exists or does not exist whether people believe in Him or not.

Third, people believed in God(s) before there was writing, much less books.

Fourth, if you feel like people are calling you names, perhaps you should consider that your thread was an obvious flamebait troll. Either you're extremely stupid or pretending to be extremely stupid, I don't know which is worse.

I do not consider it to be flamebait

I believe there is ONE God.. but why so many different books

I believe that if you seek the answer in your heart you will find what is right and wrong

Do YOU need a book to tell you what moral actions are right or wrong?

Text

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: SaltBoy

Originally posted by: dahunan
Hmm.. will anger really help someone listen.. a couple of you in here sound so angry and arrogant.. sorry .. it was not my intention

AND.. BTW In the original post I NEVER mentioned any specific religion .. did I?

One of my concerns was the Iraqi RELIGIOUS Civil War.. where believers in the same GOD choose to kill each other because they believe a different version..

Well then, they really DON'T believe in the same God now, do they?

Of course they do. It's just that the God they believe in has very little to do with their fighting. It just provides them with one more excuse among many to hate each other. All war is large scale armed robbery and nothing else.
Anyone who thinks that wars would disappear if religion disappeared is pretty much a clueless idiot and/or a bigot obsessed with controlling the beliefs of others (i.e., religion = crimethink).

You are very good at calling people names.. enjoy yourself

 

[6StringSamurai]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: 6StringSamurai
Here is a list of over 700 inconsitencies in the bible.

I went through the first 40 or so before stopping. Those aren't inconsistencies to anybody with at least half a brain. Or you'd have to be one stubborn, prejudiced, closed minded person WANTING to see them as inconsistencies.

Case in point. How much time have you spent actually reading or learning what the bible says compared to googling for anti-bible links?

Funny, I spent the first 21 years of my life in church minimum 3x a week, bible camps, and parents that are childrens church teachers. Care to question my credentials? You'd have to be stubborn, prejudiced, closed minded person wanting to believe that the bible is infallible. Or maybe...you just have enough "faith".

Edit: I know the bible inside and out. I know the feeling of being a true believer in the most fanatical of senses. I know the feeling of living a life of loving god and dedicating my life to him. Reading the bible every night, prayer groups, playing guitar in a praise and worship band. I know the feeling of truly believing that god talked to me and directed my life. Sometimes though man, you just realiaze that no matter how hard you try to believe, the sky will never be green and the grass will never be blue. 21 years I lived it... please don't tell me I just google anti-Christianity links.

 

[thoro86]

Originally posted by: dahunan
You would think that we would have the answer in our hearts?

I just love this kind of thread!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: 6StringSamurai

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: 6StringSamurai
Here is a list of over 700 inconsitencies in the bible. Now, if you choose to believe that there is a god, so be it. If you choose to worship said god, then so be it. I have no problem with these people. I do however find that people that base there religious belief system on the bible, need to wake up. It is filled with errors, politically twisted translations through time, and it was "supposedly" written by man.

I don't understand what any inconsistencies in any book have to do with anyone choosing to maintain a belief in any god.
.

Correct me if I am wrong here, but is the OP not asking "If there is a god, why do people need a book to tell them what is right and wrong? If not, then perhaps I fail reading comprehension.

If I am indeed correct in my comprehension, than my statement stands. The bible is a inaccurate, self-contradicting piece of fiction. That being said, no one should use it as a moral "ruler" , unless mass murder, incest, and extreme social inequality are your "morals".

That is what the OP is asking. However, I think you should try reading it once in your life. Amidst all that mass murder, incest, and extreme social inequality is some really fascinating stories and amazing insight and philosophy. Anyone who thinks it should be taken literally (whether pro or con) has simply missed the point.

 

[Injury]

Because God did not make humans perfect and made them capable of not following his commands.

People don't NEED a book to live a life true to themselves, it's merely there for guidance and advice should you feel confused or in need of clarification. People teach the words of the bible as a way to share their feelings on the subjects and help others follow in a path to heaven.

Sorry if this has been stated...

I didn't bother reading any replies because I'm not going to subject myself to all the comments by the people who are just looking to start crap and ridicule people who don't share their beliefs (or lack therof).

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: SaltBoy

Originally posted by: dahunan
Hmm.. will anger really help someone listen.. a couple of you in here sound so angry and arrogant.. sorry .. it was not my intention

AND.. BTW In the original post I NEVER mentioned any specific religion .. did I?

One of my concerns was the Iraqi RELIGIOUS Civil War.. where believers in the same GOD choose to kill each other because they believe a different version..

Well then, they really DON'T believe in the same God now, do they?

Of course they do. It's just that the God they believe in has very little to do with their fighting. It just provides them with one more excuse among many to hate each other. All war is large scale armed robbery and nothing else.
Anyone who thinks that wars would disappear if religion disappeared is pretty much a clueless idiot and/or a bigot obsessed with controlling the beliefs of others (i.e., religion = crimethink).

You are very good at calling people names.. enjoy yourself

Ah... but you can't help but concede that I am right, now can you? Sorry if it hurts your feelings that I tell it like it is.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: SaltBoy

Originally posted by: dahunan
Hmm.. will anger really help someone listen.. a couple of you in here sound so angry and arrogant.. sorry .. it was not my intention

AND.. BTW In the original post I NEVER mentioned any specific religion .. did I?

One of my concerns was the Iraqi RELIGIOUS Civil War.. where believers in the same GOD choose to kill each other because they believe a different version..

Well then, they really DON'T believe in the same God now, do they?

Of course they do. It's just that the God they believe in has very little to do with their fighting. It just provides them with one more excuse among many to hate each other. All war is large scale armed robbery and nothing else.
Anyone who thinks that wars would disappear if religion disappeared is pretty much a clueless idiot and/or a bigot obsessed with controlling the beliefs of others (i.e., religion = crimethink).

You are very good at calling people names.. enjoy yourself

Ah... but you can't help but concede that I am right, now can you? Sorry if it hurts your feelings that I tell it like it is.

No.. I feel like you are pathetic .. and your willingness to label and call people names like you do is more trollish than this thread could ever be.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: SaltBoy

Originally posted by: dahunan
Hmm.. will anger really help someone listen.. a couple of you in here sound so angry and arrogant.. sorry .. it was not my intention

AND.. BTW In the original post I NEVER mentioned any specific religion .. did I?

One of my concerns was the Iraqi RELIGIOUS Civil War.. where believers in the same GOD choose to kill each other because they believe a different version..

Well then, they really DON'T believe in the same God now, do they?

Of course they do. It's just that the God they believe in has very little to do with their fighting. It just provides them with one more excuse among many to hate each other. All war is large scale armed robbery and nothing else.
Anyone who thinks that wars would disappear if religion disappeared is pretty much a clueless idiot and/or a bigot obsessed with controlling the beliefs of others (i.e., religion = crimethink).

You are very good at calling people names.. enjoy yourself

Ah... but you can't help but concede that I am right, now can you? Sorry if it hurts your feelings that I tell it like it is.

No.. I feel like you are pathetic .. and your willingness to label and call people names like you do is more trollish than this thread could ever be.

Who did I call names that you feel so offended?

 

[6StringSamurai]

Originally posted by: Vic
That is what the OP is asking. However, I think you should try reading it once in your life.

Reread my post a few posts above yours.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Hmm.. will anger really help someone listen.

Umm...nothing will help somebody listen. I could preach to you and you could seriously listen intently and it's not going to do anything for you. You need to be receptive and that won't happen until.......I don't know......it's different for everyone.

There will, however, be times in your life when you have the potential for the opportunity to see the Truth. Odds are you'll miss every single one of them, unfortunately. But I'll tell you this, in all seriousness, I will say a prayer speficially for you today.....dahunan, some anonymous dude I don't know on some insignificant forum. Not that you get saved. Just that, if it's God's Will, that while passing one of those many avenues of grace you'll have an extra shred of pause to contemplate before writing it off and moving on.

I'm not arrogant. I'm fricking honest. Chritsianity isn't some feel good religeon....nobody should ever try to coerce you into joining the club with insincere promises of boundless bliss.....it's not freaking morphene. Those zombie church-goers who are going to go out of their way to be nice to you and talk in that pleasant high pitch soft voice and be exceedingly gracious and smile all wide-eyed are doing you a disservice because sooner or later you're going to see them sinning and go, whoa, so this stuff may not be real afterall, when "that" shouldn't have been what you were signing up for in the first place.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: 6StringSamurai

Originally posted by: Vic
That is what the OP is asking. However, I think you should try reading it once in your life.

Reread my post a few posts above yours.

So you went from one form of literal interpretation to another, and still miss the point. Can't help you there.

 

[SaltBoy]

Originally posted by: Vic
Of course they do. It's just that the God they believe in has very little to do with their fighting. It just provides them with one more excuse among many to hate each other. All war is large scale armed robbery and nothing else.
Anyone who thinks that wars would disappear if religion disappeared is pretty much a clueless idiot and/or a bigot obsessed with controlling the beliefs of others (i.e., religion = crimethink).

Good point, but I don't see religion going away any time soon, and I *DO* see religion as arguably the biggest influence on war. If you want religion in general to go away because you're an agnostic/atheist, then your pushing your agnostic/atheist religion on others who have a more concrete faith.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: 6StringSamurai

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: 6StringSamurai
Here is a list of over 700 inconsitencies in the bible.

I went through the first 40 or so before stopping. Those aren't inconsistencies to anybody with at least half a brain. Or you'd have to be one stubborn, prejudiced, closed minded person WANTING to see them as inconsistencies.

Case in point. How much time have you spent actually reading or learning what the bible says compared to googling for anti-bible links?

Funny, I spent the first 21 years of my life in church minimum 3x a week, bible camps, and parents that are childrens church teachers. Care to question my credentials?

That's got absolutely nothing to do with reading or learning what the Bible says. In some ways church is a horrible place for a kid to do so.

One quick question before we agree to disagree. Do you really believe those are all inconsistencies?

 

[Reckoner]

Someone please lock this thread, these type of threads go nowhere

 

[Reckoner]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: 6StringSamurai

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: 6StringSamurai
Here is a list of over 700 inconsitencies in the bible.

I went through the first 40 or so before stopping. Those aren't inconsistencies to anybody with at least half a brain. Or you'd have to be one stubborn, prejudiced, closed minded person WANTING to see them as inconsistencies.

Case in point. How much time have you spent actually reading or learning what the bible says compared to googling for anti-bible links?

Funny, I spent the first 21 years of my life in church minimum 3x a week, bible camps, and parents that are childrens church teachers. Care to question my credentials?

That's got absolutely nothing to do with reading or learning what the Bible says. In some ways church is a horrible place for a kid to do so.

One quick question before we agree to disagree. Do you really believe those are all inconsistencies?

How can a church be considered a bad place for learning/interpreting the bible?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: SaltBoy

Originally posted by: Vic
Of course they do. It's just that the God they believe in has very little to do with their fighting. It just provides them with one more excuse among many to hate each other. All war is large scale armed robbery and nothing else.
Anyone who thinks that wars would disappear if religion disappeared is pretty much a clueless idiot and/or a bigot obsessed with controlling the beliefs of others (i.e., religion = crimethink).

Good point, but I don't see religion going away any time soon, and I *DO* see religion as arguably the biggest influence on war. If you want religion in general to go away because you're an agnostic/atheist, then your pushing your agnostic/atheist religion on others who have a more concrete faith.

Religion didn't cause any of the wars that America has fought. War is fought for power and resources.

I don't understand your comment about a "more concrete faith." An atheist can be just as zealous in their faith as a nun if they want to be.

 

[6StringSamurai]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: 6StringSamurai

Originally posted by: Vic
That is what the OP is asking. However, I think you should try reading it once in your life.

Reread my post a few posts above yours.

So you went from one form of literal interpretation to another, and still miss the point. Can't help you there.

Sigh. You miss the point that you are making assumptions about my knowledge of religion and the bible. Unlike you, I will not attempt to guage your level of knowledge over an internet forum. However, you have lost your credibility. If you truly believed in your religion of choice, you would not have to assume a condescending tone with those that differ in opinion. Have a wonderful day.

 

[SaltBoy]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: SaltBoy

Originally posted by: Vic
Of course they do. It's just that the God they believe in has very little to do with their fighting. It just provides them with one more excuse among many to hate each other. All war is large scale armed robbery and nothing else.
Anyone who thinks that wars would disappear if religion disappeared is pretty much a clueless idiot and/or a bigot obsessed with controlling the beliefs of others (i.e., religion = crimethink).

Good point, but I don't see religion going away any time soon, and I *DO* see religion as arguably the biggest influence on war. If you want religion in general to go away because you're an agnostic/atheist, then your pushing your agnostic/atheist religion on others who have a more concrete faith.

Religion didn't cause any of the wars that America has fought. War is fought for power and resources.

I don't understand your comment about a "more concrete faith." An atheist can be just as zealous in their faith as a nun if they want to be.

When I say concrete, I mean the Gods and/or principles that they worship (Jesus, Allah, Jehovah, marijuana, whatever, etc.) Agnostics and Athiests don't worship concrete things, unless I'm mistaken.

 

[6StringSamurai]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: 6StringSamurai

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: 6StringSamurai
Here is a list of over 700 inconsitencies in the bible.

I went through the first 40 or so before stopping. Those aren't inconsistencies to anybody with at least half a brain. Or you'd have to be one stubborn, prejudiced, closed minded person WANTING to see them as inconsistencies.

Case in point. How much time have you spent actually reading or learning what the bible says compared to googling for anti-bible links?

Funny, I spent the first 21 years of my life in church minimum 3x a week, bible camps, and parents that are childrens church teachers. Care to question my credentials?

That's got absolutely nothing to do with reading or learning what the Bible says. In some ways church is a horrible place for a kid to do so.

One quick question before we agree to disagree. Do you really believe those are all inconsistencies?

No, I do not believe that every single one of those 700 are inconsistencies. The majority are inconsitencies with the way it is taught. I am simply saying that, I can respect anyones decision to believe in god, hell my parents are fanatics, and we can still get along fine. I do expect to be able to say though, that the bible is not the word of god, and whether someone believes it or not, respect my opinion and debate civily. (not saying you didn't but in general )

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: 6StringSamurai

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: 6StringSamurai

Originally posted by: Vic
That is what the OP is asking. However, I think you should try reading it once in your life.

Reread my post a few posts above yours.

So you went from one form of literal interpretation to another, and still miss the point. Can't help you there.

Sigh. You miss the point that you are making assumptions about my knowledge of religion and the bible. Unlike you, I will not attempt to guage your level of knowledge over an internet forum. However, you have lost your credibility. If you truly believed in your religion of choice, you would not have to assume a condescending tone with those that differ in opinion. Have a wonderful day.

Ah... did I rain on your little hate parade?

FYI: I already made it clear that I am not religious. So I'm not sure what credibility of my "religion of choice" I am supposed to have lost. As to my condescending tone, you jumped into this thread with spam about the obvious (that the Bible is inconsistent, as though no one knew that) and then ranted your personal anecdote about how terrible religion has been in your life as though we should care. All you did was reveal your own personal bitterness and hate, so I just shoved a mirror in front of your face.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: SaltBoy

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: SaltBoy

Originally posted by: Vic
Of course they do. It's just that the God they believe in has very little to do with their fighting. It just provides them with one more excuse among many to hate each other. All war is large scale armed robbery and nothing else.
Anyone who thinks that wars would disappear if religion disappeared is pretty much a clueless idiot and/or a bigot obsessed with controlling the beliefs of others (i.e., religion = crimethink).

Good point, but I don't see religion going away any time soon, and I *DO* see religion as arguably the biggest influence on war. If you want religion in general to go away because you're an agnostic/atheist, then your pushing your agnostic/atheist religion on others who have a more concrete faith.

Religion didn't cause any of the wars that America has fought. War is fought for power and resources.

I don't understand your comment about a "more concrete faith." An atheist can be just as zealous in their faith as a nun if they want to be.

When I say concrete, I mean the Gods and/or principles that they worship (Jesus, Allah, Jehovah, marijuana, whatever, etc.) Agnostics and Athiests don't worship concrete things, unless I'm mistaken.

Ah, I see. To answer: a disbelief is a belief unto itself.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Well there is a kind of moral agency.

God told Adam if he ate the apple he would shurly die. He also told him he was free to choose. If he did not eat the apple, he would remain the same not knowing good and evil.

Maybe you could learn something from reading the bible.

Is your mind closed or open?

Are you really sure about what is going to happen when you die?

What is up with people seeing angels? Are they just all liars?


Talk to an Psychologist and they will tell you everyone has a need to develop their spiritual self. This is one of the higher needs. Why are we here? Does your life have a purpose? Perhaps if life has no meaning and there is no purpose to life, then Maybe you should just give up now and avoid years of suffering.

Life, Death, then what?

These are Rhetorical questions. I am not advising anyone to commit suicide. I am just using it as an argumentative position. At no time am I advising anyone to kill themselves.

I remember this scene from a dirty harry movie where he goes up in a bucket and tells this guy not to jump because people will see it and then they will all want to throw up. Very interesting scene. It seems everyone is seeking for some meaning from life. You will only find misery from alcohol and drugs. So then what is someone to do?

The problem I'm having with your questions, is that they assume that an existance without a god or religious beliefs is automatically an existance of suffering and pain. Life is pain, life is work, life is happiness - it's everything that you make it.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: 6StringSamurai

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: 6StringSamurai
Here is a list of over 700 inconsitencies in the bible.

I went through the first 40 or so before stopping. Those aren't inconsistencies to anybody with at least half a brain. Or you'd have to be one stubborn, prejudiced, closed minded person WANTING to see them as inconsistencies.

Case in point. How much time have you spent actually reading or learning what the bible says compared to googling for anti-bible links?

Funny, I spent the first 21 years of my life in church minimum 3x a week, bible camps, and parents that are childrens church teachers. Care to question my credentials?

That's got absolutely nothing to do with reading or learning what the Bible says. In some ways church is a horrible place for a kid to do so.

One quick question before we agree to disagree. Do you really believe those are all inconsistencies?

How can a church be considered a bad place for learning/interpreting the bible?

I didn't say it always was, but that in some ways it can be.

But Ill tell you this, kids grow up hearing the stories of the Bible like nursery rhyms and they end up totally desensitized to it. They turn incredibly powerful messages into games, and, ya, the kids KNOW it all, but they don't UNDERSTAND or feel it. And then, sure enough, time comes for flexing your independence fro your parents later in life and the first thing to get the axe is all that church stuff that mommy and daddy "made" you absorb.

I'm debating this with my own kids. Christianity is a choice. How can I put my kids in classes on Sunday morning that make it all seem like unquestioned fact? That's indoctrination, not salvation. And they may very well end up resenting it as they get older like these countless rebel wankers like Marilyn Manson.

 

[SaltBoy]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
I'm debating this with my own kids. Christianity is a choice. How can I put my kids in classes on Sunday morning that make it all seem like unquestioned fact? That's indoctrination, not salvation. And they may very well end up resenting it as they get older like these countless rebel wankers like Marilyn Manson.

I think the thing that is missing from children such as these is the principle of faith.