Question if ssd's are so dependable, then why such short warranties?

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

My son is building a PC for his 4-H project. We already have most of the parts, but I am FINALLY considering having a SSD just for the windows boot disk. Prices have finally come down enough for me to consider using a SSD just to mess around.

However, I was ready to buy one when I noticed it only had a 2 year warranty. I remember when hard drives had 3 and 5 year warranties on them. I've always heard about how SSD's are supposed to be much more dependable, since they don't have
any moving parts. However, if this is the case, then why am I seeing drives with just a 24 month warranty, instead of 3-5 years or something like that?

It makes me have doubts about the reliability of the technology. If the manufacturers won't stamp at least a 3-5 year warranty on it, then how dependable is it?

 

[Furious_Styles]

You had to pay a premium for a 5yr warranty, e.g. the WD Black series. Those mech drives were really good all 3 I had outlasted their warranties by a nice margin. You can still pay a premium for SSDs like the samsung pro line. Even most of the Evo line has 5 year warranties.

 

[sheh]

I think 3+ years is more common.

Here's one $18 120GB SSD with 3 years:

https://amazon.com/dp/B07D7VTDNB/

$30 240GB with 5 years:

https://amazon.com/dp/B07SL9WBCR/

SSDs are more reliable mechanically, but have potential long-term foibles of a different kind.

 

[VirtualLarry]

More warranty costs more $$$, due to statistics and whatnot. You've noticed, and taken advantage of (hopefully), the lower prices in the last few years for SSDs, no? Well, less warranty is one reason (out of several/many) that they are now cheaper than they used to be. Sure, you could pay $500-600 for a 16GB Patriot Torx SSD, with a 10-year warranty, but compare that with now. I think that I would take a 240GB SSD for $24, with a 2-year warranty.

After all, why are you concerned with it failing? Is it too great a financial burden, should it fail on you? Or do you not back up your system like a proper computer operator? Or are you just feeling entitled, and totally out of touch with the market?

Edit: If you're really concerned, I believe that the Samsung PRO SSDs come with a 5-year warranty, and the EVO drives come with a 3-year warranty.

Other companies with good warranties, are Kingston and PNY, I believe.

I don't know about WD, Team, Adata, SanDisk (now owned by WD), or others.

Edit: Ok, I apologize about the "feeling entitled" comment. Just that you think that SSDs should drop in price, like 500% over 5-10 years, and yet, still retain 10-year warranties? You are indeed a bit out of touch, the market doesn't work like that, and standard desktop HDDs haven't had 3-year warranties, in over 5 years.

I guess, I could see having this conversation five years ago, but ... is this your first SSD? Just buy one, they're cheap enough, if you're worried about longevity, don't look at the warranty length, look at the reviews, pick a drive that has a lot of reviews, and see if they're good or not.

If you don't know which ones to pick, just get a Samsung 500GB EVO 860, during BF/CM, for $59.99, and don't look back. Samsung are normally more pricey (like 50-100% more than other brands), and are considered the "Gold Standard" for SSDs in the market.

That said, these are consumer electronics, and there can be DOAs still.

 

[Shmee]

most of the recent good SSDs have 5 year warranties. Crucial MX500, WD Blue 3D, Samsung 860 series.

 

[UsandThem]

It makes me have doubts about the reliability of the technology. If the manufacturers won't stamp at least a 3-5 year warranty on it, then how dependable is it?

Most electronics come with a 1 year warranty. It doesn't mean they aren't reliable.

I have SSDs from 2012 that are still going strong. Like others have said, most brand name SSDs come with 3-5 year warranties, so I'm not sure how much longer the warranty needs to be before you trust their reliability? Heck, many traditional hard drives only come with a one year warranty. And if it happens to be a Seagate, you can almost set your clock by it failing around 13 months.

 

[Furious_Styles]

Most electronics come with a 1 year warranty. It doesn't mean they aren't reliable.

I have SSDs from 2012 that are still going strong. Like others have said, most brand name SSDs come with 3-5 year warranties, so I'm not sure how much longer the warranty needs to be before you trust their reliability? Heck, many traditional hard drives only come with a one year warranty. And if it happens to be a Seagate, you can almost set your clock by it failing around 13 months.

Just for curiosity's sake how many TBW do you have on those drives from 2012? My oldest is an 840 pro that I've used in my main PC for 5 or so years now (OS drive) and honestly I could see it easily going another 5 years without issue.

I've recently got some older SSDs of various makes/models to use for my test bench that have significantly more usage on them.

 

[UsandThem]

Just for curiosity's sake how many TBW do you have on those drives from 2012?
I've recently got some older SSDs of various makes/models to use for my test bench that have significantly more usage on them.

I've never been a heavy data writer, but the old ones are in hand-me down laptops for our kids, so the last time I looked they had like 30 - 35 TB of writes.

Even my SSDs (850 EVO and 960 EVO) in me and my wife's laptops have only like around 15 TB of writes after 4-5 years of use.

They all show they are in good health in Samsung Magician or CrystalDiskInfo.

Edit: Derp, I just released I wrote GB instead of TB. I updated them to the correct amount.

 

[BoomerD]

most of the recent good SSDs have 5 year warranties. Crucial MX500, WD Blue 3D, Samsung 860 series.

My HP EX950 NVMe came with a 5 year warranty.

 

[Shmee]

Ya most the NVMe drives also have good warranties. I was just mentioning recent model SATA SSDs.

 

[Steltek]

More warranty costs more $$$, due to statistics and whatnot. You've noticed, and taken advantage of (hopefully), the lower prices in the last few years for SSDs, no? Well, less warranty is one reason (out of several/many) that they are now cheaper than they used to be. Sure, you could pay $500-600 for a 16GB Patriot Torx SSD, with a 10-year warranty, but compare that with now. I think that I would take a 240GB SSD for $24, with a 2-year warranty.

After all, why are you concerned with it failing? Is it too great a financial burden, should it fail on you? Or do you not back up your system like a proper computer operator? Or are you just feeling entitled, and totally out of touch with the market?

Edit: If you're really concerned, I believe that the Samsung PRO SSDs come with a 5-year warranty, and the EVO drives come with a 3-year warranty.

Other companies with good warranties, are Kingston and PNY, I believe.

I don't know about WD, Team, Adata, SanDisk (now owned by WD), or others.

Edit: Ok, I apologize about the "feeling entitled" comment. Just that you think that SSDs should drop in price, like 500% over 5-10 years, and yet, still retain 10-year warranties? You are indeed a bit out of touch, the market doesn't work like that, and standard desktop HDDs haven't had 3-year warranties, in over 5 years.

I guess, I could see having this conversation five years ago, but ... is this your first SSD? Just buy one, they're cheap enough, if you're worried about longevity, don't look at the warranty length, look at the reviews, pick a drive that has a lot of reviews, and see if they're good or not.

If you don't know which ones to pick, just get a Samsung 500GB EVO 860, during BF/CM, for $59.99, and don't look back. Samsung are normally more pricey (like 50-100% more than other brands), and are considered the "Gold Standard" for SSDs in the market.

That said, these are consumer electronics, and there can be DOAs still.

Here is an 500GB 860 EVO for $52.99+tax shipped for OP.

 

[Furious_Styles]

I've never been a heavy data writer, but the old ones are in hand-me down laptops for our kids, so the last time I looked they had like 30 - 35 TB of writes.

Even my SSDs (850 EVO and 960 EVO) in me and my wife's laptops have only like around 15 TB of writes after 4-5 years of use.

They all show they are in good health in Samsung Magician or CrystalDiskInfo.

Edit: Derp, I just released I wrote GB instead of TB. I updated them to the correct amount.

Seems I'm the same. Just checked 15TB writes on that 840. Nearly 50k hours. I got an older Seagate 2tb mech drive with almost 37K hours. Not bad for that drive. I bought that a year ago or so from someone.

 

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

Yes, there is the potential here for this to be my first SSD. I've been using purely magnetic storage since 1990, though, (ok, actually 1983, when I used a tape drive - just remembered that) and so I don't fully trust the format yet. In the past, I always waited until the new tech was as cheap as the older tech, and had essentially replaced it. That hasn't happened with hard drives. If there aren't any moving parts, then where do SSD's typically fail? Is it the controller chip? If so, why isn't there a backup? I would only be filling up maybe 1/4 of the drive with the OS, if there is a way to install programs on another drive. I would think that leaving 3/4 of the drive empty would allow it to minimize how often it writes to any specific part of the drive.

I guess I'm comparing the warranty with IDE and SATA hard drives I was purchasing as long as 25 years ago. I didn't pay a premium, but I got 3 to 5 year warranties on the drives I did buy. What caused the typical warranty periods to decay to such short periods compared to what they used to be? Did all the HDD manufacturers get together, say "Hey, these warranties are costing us money - let's all shorten them to 12 or 24 months unless people are willing to pay extra!" - something along those lines?

Right now I'm getting by with some Seagate Constellation ST33000650NS drives. Bought several, partitioned and slow formatted. Ran them through their paces, including listening for unusual noises and running them with a 'burn-in' testing program overnight on each. Although the 3TB drives were used, and were a little bit noisier than I'm used to, they were enterprise drives, so I sort of expected it. I got each drive for $35 shipped during a sale. (seller raised the price to about $50 perhaps a week after I bought mine) Since I tested each pretty extensively, I'm happy with them. I do back up my primary documents and photos every month or two. Granted, I should probably automate the process.

I'm sort of TOYING with the idea of us getting a SSD just to make it faster to boot up, return from sleep, etc. If I wanted to just use it for the Windows 10 operating system files, what brand/deal would you recommend? What size should I get? I would be pairing it with one of the Constellation ST33000650NS drives for the games and other install files to go on. I'll probably leave it partitioned with about 2TB for Windows, and perhaps 1TB for Linux future install.

 

[UsandThem]

I'm sort of TOYING with the idea of us getting a SSD just to make it faster to boot up, return from sleep, etc. If I wanted to just use it for the Windows 10 operating system files, what brand/deal would you recommend? What size should I get? I would be pairing it with one of the Constellation ST33000650NS drives for the games and other install files to go on. I'll probably leave it partitioned with about 2TB for Windows, and perhaps 1TB for Linux future install.

What kind (2.5" SATA SSD or M.2 NVMe/SATA)?

Regardless of what kind you want, don't go smaller than around a 500 GB version. SSDs in capacities like 128 GB or 256 GB are slower than the larger sizes. If you want one to install the OS on along with some programs, 500 GB is perfect.

If you're looking at 2.5" SSDs, drives like the Samsung 860 EVO, Crucial MX500, Western Digital Blue 3D NAND, and the Sandisk Ultra 3D NAND are generally the "big four" most people go with (now that Intel has pretty much left the SATA market).

 

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

What kind (2.5" SATA SSD or M.2 NVMe/SATA)?

Regardless of what kind you want, don't go smaller than around a 500 GB version. SSDs in capacities like 128 GB or 256 GB are slower than the larger sizes. If you want one to install the OS on along with some programs, 500 GB is perfect.

If you're looking at 2.5" SSDs, drives like the Samsung 860 EVO, Crucial MX500, Western Digital Blue 3D NAND, and the Sandisk Ultra 3D NAND are generally the "big four" most people go with (now that Intel has pretty much left the SATA market).

- I had to look at the motherboard that we'll use, and I do see that it supports "turbo m.2", so evidently I have a choice there. I had just assumed I'd be using a SATA SSD.

 

[UsandThem]

- I had to look at the motherboard that we'll use, and I do see that it supports "turbo m.2", so evidently I have a choice there. I had just assumed I'd be using a SATA SSD.

If it can use a NVMe drive, you might as well get one of those. They are about the same price as SATA SSDs anymore, and are 3-4 times faster.

Here's an older article from 2015 when NVMe drives began showing up that (simply) explains what the differences are: https://www.pcworld.com/article/2899351/everything-you-need-to-know-about-nvme.html

Edit: It looks like they've updated the article a bit, and now say it was published in March of 2019. However, it was originally published back in April 2015 (TomsHardware seems to do that a lot as well).

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yes, there is the potential here for this to be my first SSD.

Well, congrats on making the leap.

If there aren't any moving parts, then where do SSD's typically fail? Is it the controller chip? If so, why isn't there a backup?

That's kind of like, NASA-level redundancy. On a consumer device, that doesn't really happen.

That would be like saying, why don't city buses have TWO bus drivers, in case one has a heart attack or gets shot at. Well, the fares would cost twice as much.

Backups of data are the user's job.

Of course, if the user wants, they can run RAID-1 (mirroring), if they fear their SSD failing on them.

I would only be filling up maybe 1/4 of the drive with the OS, if there is a way to install programs on another drive. I would think that leaving 3/4 of the drive empty would allow it to minimize how often it writes to any specific part of the drive.

No need. Just don't quite "fill them to the brim". They should be fine.

Did all the HDD manufacturers get together, say "Hey, these warranties are costing us money - let's all shorten them to 12 or 24 months unless people are willing to pay extra!" - something along those lines?

Yes, that's effectively what happened.

Right now I'm getting by with some Seagate Constellation ST33000650NS drives. Bought several, partitioned and slow formatted. Ran them through their paces, including listening for unusual noises and running them with a 'burn-in' testing program overnight on each. Although the 3TB drives were used, and were a little bit noisier than I'm used to, they were enterprise drives, so I sort of expected it. I got each drive for $35 shipped during a sale. (seller raised the price to about $50 perhaps a week after I bought mine) Since I tested each pretty extensively, I'm happy with them. I do back up my primary documents and photos every month or two. Granted, I should probably automate the process.

Constellation drives are nice. REAL Enterprise drives.

I'm sort of TOYING with the idea of us getting a SSD just to make it faster to boot up, return from sleep, etc. If I wanted to just use it for the Windows 10 operating system files, what brand/deal would you recommend? What size should I get? I would be pairing it with one of the Constellation ST33000650NS drives for the games and other install files to go on. I'll probably leave it partitioned with about 2TB for Windows, and perhaps 1TB for Linux future install.

500GB Samsung 860 EVO for SATA 2.5", and maybe a Samsung 970 EVO or EVO Plus, the the Samsung NVMe drives have a bit of a premium. I'm personally OK with an Intel 660p 1TB for under $100.

Wait, when you say "pairing it with 3TB Constellation", and "2TB for Windows and 1TB for Linux", do you mean that you would be looking at a 3TB SSD (really, 4TB-class, since they don't really come in 3TB capacities)? That gets... pricey.

I think that WD has a 4TB M.2 (not sure if NVMe or SATA) in their new WD Red SSD lineup. Or maybe their 4TB WD Red SSD only comes in SATA 2.5". I forget.

Most NVMe SSDs (for consumers) top out at 2TB.

 

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

By 'pairing', I meant that the SSD would essentially just be for the operating system. The PC would also have one of the Seagate Constellation drives for storing programs.

 

[Billy Tallis]

The PC would also have one of the Seagate Constellation drives for storing programs.

Don't do that. It would be stupid to buy a SSD and barely use it. If you're going to buy a SSD (which you absolutely should before making any other hardware purchases), then get one that's reasonably large and use it to hold everything except for your movie collection and your largest video games. Even a completely full low-end SSD will vastly outperform a 10k RPM hard drive for interactive usage, so leaving all your programs on spinning rust would be masochism.

 

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

Don't do that. It would be stupid to buy a SSD and barely use it. If you're going to buy a SSD (which you absolutely should before making any other hardware purchases), then get one that's reasonably large and use it to hold everything except for your movie collection and your largest video games. Even a completely full low-end SSD will vastly outperform a 10k RPM hard drive for interactive usage, so leaving all your programs on spinning rust would be masochism.

What do you mean by 'barely use it'? By putting the OS on there, it would be used every time the system booted up and shut down. Wouldn't that make a huge difference in bootup and shutdown times?

 

[VirtualLarry]

What do you mean by 'barely use it'? By putting the OS on there, it would be used every time the system booted up and shut down. Wouldn't that make a huge difference in bootup and shutdown times?

Yes, SSDs make bootup and shutdown faster. But they can do so much more! Leave your programs, swapfile/pagefile, etc., on the SSD.

 

[UsandThem]

Yes, SSDs make bootup and shutdown faster. But they can do so much more! Leave your programs, swapfile/pagefile, etc., on the SSD.

Exactly.

People can buy 1TB NVMe drives for under $100 now (such as the MyDigitalSSD SBXe, Kingston A2000), and I've seen quality 2TB SSDs like the Western Digital Blue 3D NAND drives go for $180. It's so nice not using spinners outside of external backup purposes (when you can walk away while it does its writing).