If someone tries to steal your car should you have the right to shoot and kill them?

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If someone tries to steal your car should you have the right to shoot and kill them?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Other (answer in thread)


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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,409
9,300
136
It seems that way, It just baffles me that people care more about their car than a human life. I'm surprised at the "What if he's got a gun?!... Best kill him just incase" mentality.

It's the thiefs decision. If he doesn't stop when you ask him and you have a gun then shoot him.

He decided to steal the car.
And he decided that the car was worth risking his life for.

Its nothing to do with monetary loss or "incase mentality" its to do with personal responsibility and taking ownership of your own actions.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,125
30,076
146
Of course, but he didn't bring a gun, he didn't suggest a life or death situation, he didn't threaten you. He wants a car, that is all.

to be perfectly honest, and everyone here agrees with me on this--you can't make that assumption, neckbeard. No one is going to steal your car without making a threat. If they can't threaten you, they can't steal your car.

this is a joke.
 

unxpurg8d

Golden Member
Apr 7, 2000
1,373
0
71
Dude cut me some slack, I'm just trying to get people to debate about the merit of killing someone who is no threat to you but is stealing your car, that is all. I'll grant you the situation has become convoluted, but I want this argument based on logic and reason rather than the notion that people who will steal a TV will happily massacre small animals, or the notion that I should kill everyone who might have a gun when I get in an argument with them just incase.

Oh! Wait! I didn't say I would let people arguing with me live (armed or not) - they can steal my car though. :biggrin:
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
its reasonable to assume that anyone trying to enter your vehicle, while you are in it, without your permission intends to do you great bodily harm that could cause death.

It's reasonable to assume they are happy to hurt you, not kill you. It's not reasonable to assume that someone who breaks into your house or car will happily kill you.

IF he has no gun AND he is NO THREAT, he IS NOT stealing my car.

Because I do have a gun and I am a threat.

OK he's very threatening, but wont kill you. I don't know dude, I just don't want this argument based on the paranoia of "what if he has a gun!?" or "if he'll steal a car he'll happily massacre baby seals" I'm trying to get people to have this debate without assumptions of potentially being killed.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
It seems that way, It just baffles me that people care more about their car than a human life. I'm surprised at the "What if he's got a gun?!... Best kill him just incase" mentality.

You're wrong. I don't value my car more than a human life, but trash isn't of any value so why are you comparing it to human life? This thief is nothing more than trash, he decided as much when he decided the value of property is worth more than the value of life. Oh but he's not killing anyone so he can't possibly value human life less than property right? FUCKING WRONG MORON. The only reason the fucking thief is stealing is because he values the property more than the human life. He is willing to cause unknown amounts of harm to someone just because he wants to profit from it. Sure maybe not physical harm, but financial and psychological harm. The thief is the one setting the value of life below property, not the one ending the thieves life over it.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
He's a troll.

Put HAL9000 on your ignore list.

He should be banned. This is like his fifth gun thread where he will argue against everyone b/c he is right and everyone else is wrong. Other trolls have been banned for inciting the forum numerous times. I suggest reporting his OP that he's trolling.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,125
30,076
146
Dude cut me some slack, I'm just trying to get people to debate about the merit of killing someone who is no threat to you but is stealing your car, that is all. I'll grant you the situation has become convoluted, but I want this argument based on logic and reason rather than the notion that people who will steal a TV will happily massacre small animals, or the notion that I should kill everyone who might have a gun when I get in an argument with them just incase.

no one, not once, ever made that connection in this thread. We're not that daft.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
It's the thiefs decision. If he doesn't stop when you ask him and you have a gun then shoot him.

He decided to steal the car.
And he decided that the car was worth risking his life for.

Its nothing to do with monetary loss or "incase mentality" its to do with personal responsibility and taking ownership of your own actions.

Why did he decide car = life?

to be perfectly honest, and everyone here agrees with me on this--you can't make that assumption, neckbeard. No one is going to steal your car without making a threat. If they can't threaten you, they can't steal your car.

this is a joke.

Haha funny.

Oh! Wait! I didn't say I would let people arguing with me live (armed or not) - they can steal my car though. :biggrin:

Good call, arguing shits! Kill em.
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
But that's insane?! Why would you go, well he punched me, therefore he will happily kill me, it's like getting into a fight with your wife, she slaps you and you blow her head off, because "What if she had a gun" or "well she hit me therefore she might kill me"

It's nothing like that.

As for the bad guy... Some crazy guy is hitting me trying to steal my car!!! I have no idea what he's going to do or how far he intends to escalate this. I have no idea if he's got a gun or other weapon. Him telling me so means nothing. Therefore I have to assume the worst in order to protect my life.

Because if I take his word... the word of a thief and assailant... as gospel truth... and he's lying... I'm dead.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
and he finally officially and completely jumped the shark


Nothing to see here folks....move along. Move along
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
He should be banned. This is like his fifth gun thread where he will argue against everyone b/c he is right and everyone else is wrong. Other trolls have been banned for inciting the forum numerous times. I suggest reporting his OP that he's trolling.

Not trolling, arguing. / debating. ;)
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
He should be banned. This is like his fifth gun thread where he will argue against everyone b/c he is right and everyone else is wrong. Other trolls have been banned for inciting the forum numerous times. I suggest reporting his OP that he's trolling.

Fifth? This is like his 10th or 15th thread about firearms that he trolled.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
It's nothing like that.

As for the bad guy... Some crazy guy is hitting me trying to steal my car!!! I have no idea what he's going to do or how far he intends to escalate this. I have no idea if he's got a gun or other weapon. Him telling me so means nothing. Therefore I have to assume the worst in order to protect my life.

Because if I take his word... the word of a thief and assailant... as gospel truth... and he's lying... I'm dead.

Why do you have to assume that someone who hits you is trying to kill you?! WHY?! Why does it logically follow that all who hit and steal, kill?

and he finally officially and completely jumped the shark


Nothing to see here folks....move along. Move along

I love shark
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,409
9,300
136
Why did he decide car = life?

So whats his reasonable expectation of the behaviour of the victim?

Does he get to decide how far things are allowed to be escalated? "me punching him in the face and taking his car is ok, but him shooting me is completely unreasonable"
 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
0
0
It's reasonable to assume they are happy to hurt you, not kill you. It's not reasonable to assume that someone who breaks into your house or car will happily kill you.



OK he's very threatening, but wont kill you. I don't know dude, I just don't want this argument based on the paranoia of "what if he has a gun!?" or "if he'll steal a car he'll happily massacre baby seals" I'm trying to get people to have this debate without assumptions of potentially being killed.
That assumption is the logical fallacy of your scenario.
You cannot pre-determine to what level a "threat" intends to act. By placing the variable "threat" into the equation, you change the results in ways you cannot predict.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
Read up on car jackings then come back and argue. Stealing a car is entirely different from a car jacking. I don't have anything more valuable than a human life, no matter how much that human's choosing to waste it, but car jackings are NOT the same thing - I definitely value MY life more than a car jacker's. There are a lot of people that depend on me and need me. Even if I didn't think I was more valuable than the car jacker all the people I love DO come first.

OK, so the guy walks up to you, you are in the car at traffic lights, you aren't paying attention the guy opens your door (it is unlocked) grabs you pulls you out of the car, drops you on the road gets in the car, and attempts to drive away, This is the situation.
 

hdfxst

Senior member
May 13, 2009
851
3
81
I understand that, but I'm not asking what the law is where you live, I'm asking what you think it should be.


I think the castle doctrine in pa is a great law and should not be changed,but if i look out my window and see someone stealing my car or truck i will not shoot them.But if your trying to forcefully take my vehicle from me well you better make sure your organ donor card is up to date.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
So whats his reasonable expectation of the behaviour of the victim?

Does he get to decide how far things are allowed to be escalated? "me punching him in the face and taking his car is ok, but him shooting me is completely unreasonable"

I've ammended the situation below

That assumption is the logical fallacy of your scenario.
You cannot pre-determine to what level a "threat" intends to act. By placing the variable "threat" into the equation, you change the results in ways you cannot predict.

Ok i've amended it:

OK, so the guy walks up to you, you are in the car at traffic lights, you aren't paying attention the guy opens your door (it is unlocked) grabs you pulls you out of the car, drops you on the road gets in the car, and attempts to drive away, This is the situation.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
OK, so the guy walks up to you, you are in the car at traffic lights, you aren't paying attention the guy opens your door (it is unlocked) grabs you pulls you out of the car, drops you on the road gets in the car, and attempts to drive away, This is the situation.

so you're assuming the driver isn't wearing their seat belt right? why wouldn't the driver be wearing their seat belt?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,125
30,076
146
It seems that way, It just baffles me that people care more about their car than a human life. I'm surprised at the "What if he's got a gun?!... Best kill him just incase" mentality.

the thing is, with someone threatening to take your car, there is a reasonably high chance that this person's life is not worth valuing over anything.

Sure, that's not always the case--desperate people do desperate things; but unless he flashes a badge and needs to commandeer my car for official use (lol--does that ever happen?? :hmm:), then I'm going to opt on the side of caution and assume as, well, anyone should assume, that my life is worth more than his life.

again, he put himself in this situation, and as most criminals understand that, they tend to be packing. so, there you go.
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
Why do you have to assume that someone who hits you is trying to kill you?! WHY?! Why does it logically follow that all who hit and steal, kill?

It's call "Self Preservation", moron. It is the most basic of all animal instincts. Nobody attacks you in a nice way or with love & sunshine in their hearts. If you are going to protect yourself you have to prepare for and expect the worst.

What if you assumed he was telling you the truth and he wasn't... and he shot you while you were being compliant? What then smart guy? Guess what. You should have assumed the worst. You'd still be alive.
 

guyver01

Lifer
Sep 25, 2000
22,135
5
61
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and to answer the question..

If the car thief was British, eating a cookie and calling it a biscuit... then yes... i'd uzi his ass.