If people are so big on deporting illegals, why not their kids?

[Darthvoy]

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: Darthvoy

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
steppin, legal immigration is how both my parents families came to be here.
I am not a squat & drop child nor am I a racist.

Racism is the tired trump card that is played in every discussion about unarmed invaders.
I have lived in SoCal for 52 years and have seen a thing or two

I say send every illegal packing for home, Mexican, Centeral or South American, Asian.
European or Middle Eastener.

The word born should be removed from Sec.1 of the 14th

funny how if that section wasn't in the constitution from the beginning most of us today would not be "citizen".

You mean those of us who had ancestors who came here legally? Those who were legal US citizens when they had children? What about those who came here as children, legally, and obtained legal citizenship, legally? What do they teach you in middle school these days that makes you so ignorant?

Yes thank you for calling me ignorant (name calling is the most effective way to win in an argument BTW ;-)). Now, you should actually read the constitution, especifically the part we are discussing and when you do come back with an intelligent response.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: StepUp
If you're born in the United States, are you not considered a US citizen despite the citizenship of the parents? I don't think it's a double standard. Is it the law that you don't like? I'm a bit confused by the question.

yes they are and that law needs to get changed. it was written long ago to help the slaves, but it has turned into a giant loophole that is destroying our country.

 

[Moonbeam]

If people are so big on deporting illegals, why not their kids?

I would guess the kids aren't so big on it because they don't want to see their parents deported like the people do.

 

[babylon5]

It's racist only Mexcians can walk over and drop a baby to anchor. What about all the other countries where people want to dump one here too to get citizenship?

On local news, they did a report on Korean parents pay a Korean middlewoman to live in a house, everything taken care of, and have anchor babies here.

I say we let anyone and everyone, criminals or what not, to come and drop one. That would be great for liberals huh?

 

[herkulease]

Originally posted by: babylon5

On local news, they did a report on Korean parents pay a Korean middlewoman to live in a house, everything taken care of, and have anchor babies here.

That makes no sense what so ever. Why would a korean parents pay a korean woman to have an anchorbaby? how would they benefit?

Rights are given to the baby and the mother would be able to stay. the people who are paying get nothing.

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: dullard
The parents broke laws. The kids didn't. Why should we punish people who never broke a law?

What if the kids have NO citizenship in any country? Where do we send them?

Exactly

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
steppin, legal immigration is how both my parents families came to be here.
I am not a squat & drop child nor am I a racist.

Racism is the tired trump card that is played in every discussion about unarmed invaders.
I have lived in SoCal for 52 years and have seen a thing or two

I say send every illegal packing for home, Mexican, Centeral or South American, Asian.
European or Middle Eastener.

The word born should be removed from Sec.1 of the 14th

Legal immigration is ALSO how my parents came here, and It took me almost 15 years to get naturalized AND I've lived in So Cal for 8 years now....

but to call them unarmed invaders is ridiculous

 

[MadRat]

Implying they are an invading army is probably due to some backlash feelings at the hostility so many white Americans get when they cross the border into Mexico. Perhaps if the gates swung both ways the average joe Americans wouldn't mind being able to buy up the dirt cheap Mexican real estate.

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Yep, we need to do away with the "anchor baby" clause. If the parents are here illegally, then the child is also illegal, regardless of where it's born, and remains a citizen of the parent's home nation.
We need also to stop giving ANY kind of government support to illegal immigrants. Not sure how to best improve our immigration policies, but rolling over ahd letting them come in unchecked sure doesn't seem to be the right way.
Of course, I also support rounding ALL illegal immigrants up, and sending them back to where ever they came from, and making them apply for entry, just like everyone else.
Start hitting those who employ them with hefty fines, and even jail time will help reduce the reasons they come in the first place, and while at first, the economy will take a hit, we can recover and be stronger for it. Make welfare recipients who are able to work take jobs to earn that check...Granted, there will always be some people who can't work for whatever reason...those are the people welfare was meant to help, not those who are too fcvking lazy to work...
http://tancredo.house.gov/irc/WYB.2006.06.22.html
"During the eight years of the Clinton Administration, 5,587 employers were fined for violating the laws against employing illegal workers, an average of 698 per year. During the first four years of the Bush Administration, only 218 fines were issued?less than 55 per year. In 2004 only three fines were imposed on employers. This record of non-enforcement raises serious doubts whether new laws will be enforced or ignored."

So a child born to two illegals becomes illegal. What did the child do to deserve this. It wasen't the actions of the partents that you bestow onto the child. This type of thinking just shows how much incesitive of a nation we live in. Again most of the great things that are in this country are from immigrants. Don't forget that the people who were originally here were not Europeans but native americans. So who are the illegals. We took over, created a government and called ths shots on who is legal and illegal.

 

[ntdz]

Who's big on deporting illegals?

 

[babylon5]

Not Democrats or radical leftists or greedy business owners. More the Merrier.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I was under the impression that they could change this with just a law, not an amendment.
For one thing people who are here illegaly are not given the same rights and protections as everyone else since they are not citizens. So therefore, could they not pass a law saying that children born of parents that are no legally in the country are not citizens.
I am sure this would end up in the courts in the long run.

Anyone else have any hard facts about this idea?

EDIT: From wikipedia

Under United States law, any individual born within the United States is automatically recognized as legally being a US Citizen, regardless of the legal status or the citizenship of that individual?s mother or father. Most people who use the term ?Anchor Baby? either believe that current law is based on a faulty interpretation of Citizenship Clause of the US Constitution, or believe that the interpretation is valid but outdated and that the Constitution should be amended to eliminate what is commonly known as Birthright Citizenship.

Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the US Constitution states that:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

This is sometimes referred to as the Citizenship Clause of the US Constitution, with the interpretation of the phrase ?subject to the jurisdiction thereof? being the main point of debate.

So there is some debate on this issue.

Well... you do know the purpose of the three Amendments.. and the wording fit the purpose.. It freed the slave and made him a citizen and as such the vote.. ya have to have that wording just as it is written.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I was under the impression that they could change this with just a law, not an amendment.
For one thing people who are here illegaly are not given the same rights and protections as everyone else since they are not citizens. So therefore, could they not pass a law saying that children born of parents that are no legally in the country are not citizens.
I am sure this would end up in the courts in the long run.

Anyone else have any hard facts about this idea?

EDIT: From wikipedia

Under United States law, any individual born within the United States is automatically recognized as legally being a US Citizen, regardless of the legal status or the citizenship of that individual?s mother or father. Most people who use the term ?Anchor Baby? either believe that current law is based on a faulty interpretation of Citizenship Clause of the US Constitution, or believe that the interpretation is valid but outdated and that the Constitution should be amended to eliminate what is commonly known as Birthright Citizenship.

Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the US Constitution states that:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

This is sometimes referred to as the Citizenship Clause of the US Constitution, with the interpretation of the phrase ?subject to the jurisdiction thereof? being the main point of debate.

So there is some debate on this issue.

Well... you do know the purpose of the three Amendments.. and the wording fit the purpose.. It freed the slave and made him a citizen and as such the vote.. ya have to have that wording just as it is written.

WHy couldn't it say "All persons LEGALLY born in the US"??

It doesn't seem fair to reward the children of people who broke the law? They have dual citizenship and with Mexicans demonstrating under Mexican flags and expecting the US to provide them every service in Spanish, dual citienship for them just doesn't strike me as that being a good thing for this country

 

[Tom]

"It doesn't seem fair to reward the children of people who broke the law?"


That child has just as much right to live where he/she is born as you do.

And btw, immigrants don't destroy the United States, they are one of the chief drivers of economic growth, and always have been.

There is only one true reason for anti-immigrant attitudes. Take any seemingly rational reason, and whittle away all the rhetoric, and all that is left at the core is hate.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Tom
"It doesn't seem fair to reward the children of people who broke the law?"


That child has just as much right to live where he/she is born as you do.

Only because that is what our law says. I disagree with the way the law is written and I think it needs to be changed.

That child gets to have dual citizenship because his parents broke the law. That sure seems to me to be giving him an unfair advantage. I also don't think having dual citizenship will help encourage the Mexican community to assimilate into our culture.

And btw, immigrants don't destroy the United States, they are one of the chief drivers of economic growth, and always have been.

I'm all for letting in as many doctors, scientists, technicians, engineers, archtitects, etc as we can get our hands on.

Why are we opening the doors to uneducated but restrict the educated people who want to come here? That seems pretty stupid to me.
If we need more labor, then bring people in legally. Then they can vote, drive, organize, tell their employer to "take this job and shove it", or whatever else it is free people enjoy.

There is only one true reason for anti-immigrant attitudes. Take any seemingly rational reason, and whittle away all the rhetoric, and all that is left at the core is hate.

I think the only reason anyone with any sense would supports illegals coming to this country is because they are addicted to cheap labor. I suggest they move themselves and their jobs to Mexico or even China.

Oh, that's right, they've already done that, now they need cheap labor to do the jobs that can't be outsourced overseas. Well, then get ready for a fight.

You say I'm hateful at the core. Is that all you have to argue with? Well, then I say you don't really care about the illegals or if they have rights and you don't care about the hard working american blue collar workers. You only care about the almighty greenback because your greedy all the way to the bone.


People like you who profess to care for the illegals at the expense of the hard working blue collar Americans make me sick.

 

[Tom]

I did not say you are hateful. And I don't care about "illegals" any more than I care about blue collar Americans. All are people to me.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Tom
And btw, immigrants don't destroy the United States, they are one of the chief drivers of economic growth, and always have been.

Any research to back that up?
I am sure that those using illegals are fattening up their wallets, but what is the effect on the rest of the economy, with dollars being sent outside the country, and with cities and towns left with the bills for medical care and education?

 

[1EZduzit]

People are people and human nature being what it is the the longer we ignore the illegal problem the worse it's going to get. I guess if you like cheap labor then you can afford to be "generous", but it hurts the blue collar workers who have to compete with them.

Like I pointed out earlier, if we need more people then let them come here legally and have the same rights as the rest of us. Let's also open that door to the professionals, lord knows we have a shortage of doctors, nurses, engineers, etc. in this country. They're people too.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Tom
And btw, immigrants don't destroy the United States, they are one of the chief drivers of economic growth, and always have been.

Any research to back that up?
I am sure that those using illegals are fattening up their wallets, but what is the effect on the rest of the economy, with dollars being sent outside the country, and with cities and towns left with the bills for medical care and education?

there isn't anything magical about it. labor is a key component of creating wealth and growth, who is doing the work doesn't change that basic principal of economics.

immigrants buy food, pay rent, go to movies, just like everyone else. if they send money back to their families in other countries, that is no different than buying a Japansese car, or a Chinese made motherboard.

medical care and education are not net drains on an economy, they both make economies more efficent and productive, at least if delivered in rational ways.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Tom
And btw, immigrants don't destroy the United States, they are one of the chief drivers of economic growth, and always have been.

Any research to back that up?
I am sure that those using illegals are fattening up their wallets, but what is the effect on the rest of the economy, with dollars being sent outside the country, and with cities and towns left with the bills for medical care and education?

there isn't anything magical about it. labor is a key component of creating wealth and growth, who is doing the work doesn't change that basic principal of economics.

You mean the law of supply and demand? I say the illegals can go striaght to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

immigrants buy food, pay rent, go to movies, just like everyone else. if they send money back to their families in other countries, that is no different than buying a Japansese car, or a Chinese made motherboard.

Actually it is because they push down wages for legal Americans. Just because something is good for you doesn't mean it's good for the whole copuntry.

medical care and education are not net drains on an economy, they both make economies more efficent and productive, at least if delivered in rational ways.

Cool, yopu can start paying for my medical insurance since I can't afford it. :disgust:

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Tom
immigrants buy food, pay rent, go to movies, just like everyone else. if they send money back to their families in other countries, that is no different than buying a Japansese car, or a Chinese made motherboard.

Money sent to family overseas is just that -- money that left the USA, without going through the local economy.
On the other hand, money paid for a Japanese car goes through the local economy as well, as you have car salesmen, transport, advertising, etc... Not to mention that most car companies have a factory or two in the USA.
Anyway, your argument fails on the simple fact that illegals also buy Japanese cars or Chinese made motherboards, so in that respect they are no different than the rest of the country.

medical care and education are not net drains on an economy, they both make economies more efficent and productive, at least if delivered in rational ways.

You must be high, since if an illegal doesn't pay taxes, and takes advantage of state-sponsored medical services -- again, without paying taxes -- someone has to pay for it.

there isn't anything magical about it. labor is a key component of creating wealth and growth, who is doing the work doesn't change that basic principal of economics.

You can hardly justify bringing-in foreign workers when you have unemployment in your own country.
The only reason to bring more workers is to avoid paying a fair market wage: foreign workers won't be able to unionize, will probably be forced to live in squalor, and probably won't be covered by other protections granted to citizens; the USA isn't the first to propose, or to bring in foreign workers, and there is no reason to believe it will be a pretty sight.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Tom
immigrants buy food, pay rent, go to movies, just like everyone else. if they send money back to their families in other countries, that is no different than buying a Japansese car, or a Chinese made motherboard.

Money sent to family overseas is just that -- money that left the USA, without going through the local economy.
On the other hand, money paid for a Japanese car goes through the local economy as well, as you have car salesmen, transport, advertising, etc... Not to mention that most car companies have a factory or two in the USA.
Anyway, your argument fails on the simple fact that illegals also buy Japanese cars or Chinese made motherboards, so in that respect they are no different than the rest of the country.

medical care and education are not net drains on an economy, they both make economies more efficent and productive, at least if delivered in rational ways.

You must be high, since if an illegal doesn't pay taxes, and takes advantage of state-sponsored medical services -- again, without paying taxes -- someone has to pay for it.

Immigrants should pay taxes, as far as I know they do. Except if they are in the underground economy, but then that isn't just immigrants, but lots of citizens too, who don't pay their fair share of taxes. Doesn't have anything to do with immigration.

My point about the Japanese cars, Chinese motherboards is about whether or not it makes sense to make sending money abroad illegal, or that there is somethng wrong with it, which you had implied.

in other words, criticizing immgrants for sending money home doesn't seem like a valid criticism to me, and is hypocritical given the average American's willingness to send lots of money abroad for their own reasons, something that is clearly illustrated by our huge trade imbalance.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Tom

in other words, criticizing immgrants for sending money home doesn't seem like a valid criticism to me, and is hypocritical given the average American's willingness to send lots of money abroad for their own reasons, something that is clearly illustrated by our huge trade imbalance.

When they can come and take someone's home and all his property to pay for medical bills, but an illegal has sent all his money out of the country and it can't be traced, then that's hypocritical.

And the idea that letting in illegals will help our trade balance is questionable. How about we pay the american worker to make the things we need right here in America. That would help the trade balance too.

It's not the American workers fault that they can live on 8 cents an hour in China.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Tom
in other words, criticizing immgrants for sending money home doesn't seem like a valid criticism to me, and is hypocritical given the average American's willingness to send lots of money abroad for their own reasons, something that is clearly illustrated by our huge trade imbalance.

Your argument has no value, as I've already pointed out:

• If someone sends $500 out of the country, then all that $500 ends-up outside of the country.
• If someone buys a $500 computer, that was manufactured in China, not all the $500 end up in China

Trade imbalance is a whole different matter, so stop raising it, as if illegals are going to help improve that situation.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Tom
in other words, criticizing immgrants for sending money home doesn't seem like a valid criticism to me, and is hypocritical given the average American's willingness to send lots of money abroad for their own reasons, something that is clearly illustrated by our huge trade imbalance.

Your argument has no value, as I've already pointed out:

• If someone sends $500 out of the country, then all that $500 ends-up outside of the country.
• If someone buys a $500 computer, that was manufactured in China, not all the $500 end up in China

Trade imbalance is a whole different matter, so stop raising it, as if illegals are going to help improve that situation.

I didn't raise it as a matter of economics, but ethics. What immigrants do with their earnings isn't a matter the state should control, unless you are opposed to economic freedom.

But since you bring it up, since immigrants do their work in the United States, obviously that would have a positive effect on the trade balance. That is true of any production or economic activity that takes place inside our borders, obviously.