If Mars had always been a hospitable planet

darkxshade

Lifer
Mar 31, 2001
13,749
6
81
Would we have colonized it by now? If not, how much longer do you think it would take? If so, who would be on it, what would the population be like, and how developed/established would the colony be?



Lets assume, there are no sentient life on it. So this is not a discussion of being invaders of an alien planet or any of that sci-fi stuff but more of the social and economic impact of having another home this close to Earth.
 

MontyAC

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2004
4,112
1
81
We're not welcomed:

martians.jpg
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,359
4,640
136
Assuming that it could be (very nearly) fully self sustainable. We could get a few dozen people to mars, and maybe a few dozen more every other year or so. So, we could colonize it, but it would be a small colony.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,731
3,440
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If it were habitable, we would already have colonies there. The motivation to go there would be huge as this would be a ready made world for us to go and explore.
It would have initially had huge implications for theology , but shortly after discovering that mars was habitable, the religious would find places in their dusty old books that "clearly" point out that god made two planets for us. They would find ways to make mars fit.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,010
66
91
I think it all depends what one defines hospitaltable as. If it was exactly like sea level or a forest, then sure why not. But theres plenty of creatures that live places we can't, and we would probably need the planet to be able to provide us with some resources (like the ability to grow food, etc. It's really hard to say because the planet would look much different than it does now.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
If it were habitable, we would already have colonies there.

Plural? Colonies?! Look how much it took to send up the space shuttle to LOW earth orbit. Look at the size of the rockets that it took to send TWO people at a time to the surface of the moon.

http://www.pbchistoryonline.org/middle-school-lessons/023-Cape_Canaveral/NASA-rockets.jpg

Space shuttle was pretty dinky compared to the Saturn rockets. And those sent up 3 people. How many Saturn rockets would it take to have colonies? 100 rockets = 300 people at that rate. But wait - you need supplies on the rocket for a multi-month trip, not to mention supplies for when you get there, etc.

Though, I suspect that if there was some place to actually go, there would be a hell of a lot more research dollars spent on developing a material that could serve as the tether for a space elevator. Being able to get stuff into space for 1% the current cost (per pound) and having a reason to put a LOT of stuff in space would make the development a lot more practical.

But, if it was hospitable - it WOULD be worth doing. But, Mars is NOT hospitable. There's no reason to send humans there, other than to say "hey, look what we did."
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
I doubt it. now i suspect we would have science stations but i really really doubt we would have colonies.

it is very expensive and no real reason to spend that much money for it.
 

Insomniator

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2002
6,294
171
106
Plural? Colonies?! Look how much it took to send up the space shuttle to LOW earth orbit. Look at the size of the rockets that it took to send TWO people at a time to the surface of the moon.

http://www.pbchistoryonline.org/middle-school-lessons/023-Cape_Canaveral/NASA-rockets.jpg

Space shuttle was pretty dinky compared to the Saturn rockets. And those sent up 3 people. How many Saturn rockets would it take to have colonies? 100 rockets = 300 people at that rate. But wait - you need supplies on the rocket for a multi-month trip, not to mention supplies for when you get there, etc.

Though, I suspect that if there was some place to actually go, there would be a hell of a lot more research dollars spent on developing a material that could serve as the tether for a space elevator. Being able to get stuff into space for 1% the current cost (per pound) and having a reason to put a LOT of stuff in space would make the development a lot more practical.

But, if it was hospitable - it WOULD be worth doing. But, Mars is NOT hospitable. There's no reason to send humans there, other than to say "hey, look what we did."

Yeah basically if we knew it was good to go for the past 100 years or so, the push would be HUGE. I think we'd have sent quite a bit there by now.
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81
It would have likely been claimed by China. Their entire economy would have been focused on building spacecraft and they wouldn't have had any problem sending lots of people to try and get there and establish colonies.
 

darkxshade

Lifer
Mar 31, 2001
13,749
6
81
That's the reason I say if Mars had *always* been hospitable(say 99% identical to Earth in terms of sustaining life). This changes the timeline somewhat and possibly the course of history futher back. Certainly we would have discovered it was hospitable quite a while ago.

Given that, there would be far more motivation to send up colonists and the world today as we know it would be signficantly more different. But the question is if we would have made it there by now and to what extent.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91
if mars was hospitable, we would have a 80x interest/drive to be there. Assuming of course right now we only have 1/100 people nerd interest in MARS as being inhospitable.

So yeah, we would be able to pool the resources to get 100 or so people there fairly quickly.

This would not have been much different than colonizing north america. Some would be vanquished, some flourish.
 

darkxshade

Lifer
Mar 31, 2001
13,749
6
81
It would have likely been claimed by China. Their entire economy would have been focused on building spacecraft and they wouldn't have had any problem sending lots of people to try and get there and establish colonies.


We can't use current history really to determine that. China had been well behind as far as industrialization and only within the last couple decades gained significant ground.

I could make the counter agument that if Mars were hospitiable, America would be the first to go having been the only country to have man land on the moon and several decades ago no less. China was still in turmoil during those times and barely getting anywhere.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,586
986
126
No, the radiation traveling to mars would kill us all before we even got there.

NASA disagrees with you.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2004/17feb_radiation/

Another source.

Radiation problem

Aside from the logistics of trying to launch a rocket off the surface of Mars, perhaps the biggest challenge to sending humans to the red planet is radiation exposure in interplanetary space.

Humans on Earth are shielded from radiation by the planet's atmosphere as well as a belt of charged particles – the Van Allen radiation belt – that is held in place around Earth by its magnetic field.

Damaging radiation comes both from solar flares as well as cosmic rays ejected by distant exploding stars called supernova. Beyond low-Earth orbit a spacecraft would have no protection from either of these sources of radiation.

“We are years away from having something that would be operationally relevant to protect astronauts,” said Dr. Marcelo Vazquez , a senior scientist with National Space Biomedical Research Institute in Houston.

This radiation wouldn't immediately kill astronauts, but it could cause problems later in life such as cancer or other diseases caused by tissue degeneration. NASA has only begun to understand the risks and solutions of radiation.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,731
3,440
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This would not be a matter of exploration, it would be a matter of surival. We think we have done away with natural selection in regard to ourselves, but as soon as China gets to mars and starts to defend it, then we are in a tight spot during this scenario.
At first, upon discovering the habitable planet, the world would join hands and start hugging trees as we all sing kumbaya. As soon as the first bastard starts making claims to areas on the new planet, we are immediately reminded of our true nature as the race to colonize the planet would be on. We would have been there for 100 years already as the drive to do it would have been strong enough to completely change the course oh history.
Whats interesting is that this scenario will certainly play out at some point in the future. Maybe not with mars, but venturing out beyond our planet will happen at some point. It will just be largr than the jungle we are used to.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Plural? Colonies?! Look how much it took to send up the space shuttle to LOW earth orbit. Look at the size of the rockets that it took to send TWO people at a time to the surface of the moon.

http://www.pbchistoryonline.org/middle-school-lessons/023-Cape_Canaveral/NASA-rockets.jpg

Space shuttle was pretty dinky compared to the Saturn rockets. And those sent up 3 people. How many Saturn rockets would it take to have colonies? 100 rockets = 300 people at that rate. But wait - you need supplies on the rocket for a multi-month trip, not to mention supplies for when you get there, etc.

Though, I suspect that if there was some place to actually go, there would be a hell of a lot more research dollars spent on developing a material that could serve as the tether for a space elevator. Being able to get stuff into space for 1% the current cost (per pound) and having a reason to put a LOT of stuff in space would make the development a lot more practical.

But, if it was hospitable - it WOULD be worth doing. But, Mars is NOT hospitable. There's no reason to send humans there, other than to say "hey, look what we did."


As for it being hospitable today, in our reality, it COULD be... but it would require habitation environments. We could grow things using the available sunlight and supplemental light, and establish a large biodome of sorts that, through a natural cycle, provides a natural O2/CO2 sustainable recycling system.
It would be quite costly, and it would require some attainable need to even be worthwhile. Is there a valuable resource that can be mined on Mars? If we determine that to be the case, you can bet more of the smart types will begin really putting some effort into making this feasible.


For our dream-world scenario... well, if early missions and the earliest observations would have suggested it MIGHT be habitable, the space programs of the world would be very different today.
Not different in "we have a few percent of light-speed" different, nor "colonies EVERYWHERE" different, but different nonetheless. How?
Earliest observations of Mars, nearly one hundred years ago, perked our curiosity with detailed drawings and possibilities. If those were far and above different, we would have focused our observational efforts.
By the time we started surveying the planets with more technological efforts, Mars would have been a prime focus above all else. Space exploration and every lander and observation platform would have been designed with different goals than they had been in reality, and by today, we would probably have already sent at least one human to Mars.
Quite likely, we would have had a landing team there already, doing manned surveys.
Our space exploration efforts would be focused on the new problem of moving more bodies than shuttles, and the challenges of the longer mission and radiation, as the primary objectives, would probably already be "solved."
Propulsion likely wouldn't be any different, with all this in mind, but we'd likely have the ability and means to send teams of 25 or more to establish working colonies (again, provided there is some short-term goal that can actually be had).

Large, self-sufficient city-sized colonies? Probably wouldn't be possible. But I could imagine a solution of a habitable mini-colony acting as a ferry to Mars.

It would have been what was assembled in space, instead of the ISS. Shuttles or something would send 10 up at a time, and when they reached capacity, they would move to Mars orbit.
The first few years of this effort would involve sending ready-to-assemble parts for a vehicular launch platform to be installed on Mars. I think it would be possible this was already constructed by now, had we figured out awhile ago Mars could be habitable for humans.

Of course this is moot, I realize, because the engineering effort required in reality is a far different animal than this habitable-Mars scenario.

It's too bad, really. Damn Nature screwed this everything up: no massive iron core = no strong magnetic field = no ability to protect atmosphere from solar winds = cannot hold onto atmosphere.

It could "receive" an atmosphere faster than it loses it, but as we see today, eventually time will see our star erasing any atmosphere that gets built up. Based on evidence thus far, it is quite likely Mars had an atmosphere very similar to Earth's, at one point. But as we see - it's not there anymore.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
Plural? Colonies?! Look how much it took to send up the space shuttle to LOW earth orbit. Look at the size of the rockets that it took to send TWO people at a time to the surface of the moon.

http://www.pbchistoryonline.org/middle-school-lessons/023-Cape_Canaveral/NASA-rockets.jpg

Space shuttle was pretty dinky compared to the Saturn rockets. And those sent up 3 people. How many Saturn rockets would it take to have colonies? 100 rockets = 300 people at that rate. But wait - you need supplies on the rocket for a multi-month trip, not to mention supplies for when you get there, etc.

Though, I suspect that if there was some place to actually go, there would be a hell of a lot more research dollars spent on developing a material that could serve as the tether for a space elevator. Being able to get stuff into space for 1% the current cost (per pound) and having a reason to put a LOT of stuff in space would make the development a lot more practical.

But, if it was hospitable - it WOULD be worth doing. But, Mars is NOT hospitable. There's no reason to send humans there, other than to say "hey, look what we did."
If mars was habitable we'd have space elevator by now.
 
Nov 7, 2000
16,403
3
81
Unsure. We might have a base there, but i still think its cost prohibitive to send all the materials you would need for a colony. Even if Mars was exactly like Earth in terms of resources and stuff, the equipment you would need to actually get things developed is immense. Moving people and food/water for them is one thing, moving the necessities to jumpstart a modern society is another.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,731
3,440
136
Wouldn't it also be a one way trip? (with current technology)

Not really. But eventually, there would be so many people living there they would consider that home and they wouldn't have a need to leave. It could be a good opportunity to start a brand new civilization with science at its center, free from the historical baggage that we carry here. Educated, rational people would start the civilization and it would have a better chance of developing in a more positive way than things went here. Mars could start with all of the good that earth has to offer without any of the garbage religion and bad politics.
It would be awesome to live in a clean, virgin world with lots of new things to discover while maintaining the knowledge that we have learned.
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,365
16
0
None, because Venus would also be hospitable, and women from Venus look better than women from Mars.
 

coldmeat

Diamond Member
Jul 10, 2007
9,234
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106
I imagine even our religions would be drastically different, right? Who knows how that would have affected our history.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,913
3
0
I'm convinced floating colonies on Venus are the way to go.. seems much more plausible. Basically shoot over a huge balloon, tether it to the surface, kick your feet back and relax.