If I were to design a console

futurefields

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2012
6,470
32
91
It'd be like this -

CPU1 - Qualcomm Snapdragon dual core 1.2-1.5ghz SOC
GPU1 - Adreno iGPU (iGPU on the Snapdragon)
RAM1 - 1GB SDRAM (768mb for CPU 256mb for iGPU)

^this stuff runs the OS and peripheral services and draws all the menu graphics and animations

And then when a game starts up the rest of the system turns on

CPU2 - AMD Quad-Core desktop CPU @ 2.4ghz
RAM2 - 4GB DDR3 System RAM
GPU2 - AMD GPU (PS4 equivelant but with dedicated VRAM)
RAM2 - 2GB GDDR5

^ 100% of the power of these processors for the games as all the OS is being handled by the Qualcomm SOC.

Would save a ton of power also when games aren't running,but probably use slightly more when games are running because im going with a desktop cpu (albeit with quad cores instead of 8)
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
I'd rather have a design team to direct to make games.

Any 3D modelers, animators, and texture artists here?
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
My dream console is a Wii U without the dumb tablet remote but with the ability to upscale normal Wii and Gamecube games to 1080p like Dolphin can.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
It'd be like this -

CPU1 - Qualcomm Snapdragon dual core 1.2-1.5ghz SOC
GPU1 - Adreno iGPU (iGPU on the Snapdragon)
RAM1 - 1GB SDRAM (768mb for CPU 256mb for iGPU)

^this stuff runs the OS and peripheral services and draws all the menu graphics and animations

And then when a game starts up the rest of the system turns on

CPU2 - AMD Quad-Core desktop CPU @ 2.4ghz
RAM2 - 4GB DDR3 System RAM
GPU2 - AMD GPU (PS4 equivelant but with dedicated VRAM)
RAM2 - 2GB GDDR5

^ 100% of the power of these processors for the games as all the OS is being handled by the Qualcomm SOC.

Would save a ton of power also when games aren't running,but probably use slightly more when games are running because im going with a desktop cpu (albeit with quad cores instead of 8)

Not a bad design, use a low power ARM part to host the OS and background services. If memory serves, Nvidia is supposed to be integrating an ARM based processor onto their Maxwell GPU boards. And AMD has offiicially announced designs with x86 and ARM parts on the same die.


My dream console is a Wii U without the dumb tablet remote but with the ability to upscale normal Wii and Gamecube games to 1080p like Dolphin can.

Aim a little higher. Wii U is comparable to the PS3 in performance times. Aiming for 1024x600 rendering resolutions at 30fps is simply not acceptable today. Thats part of why the Xbox One is getting so much flak, 720p30 for its biggest titles. The likelihood of the XB1 lasting 10 years is laughable, when ARM tablets will surpass it in late 2016, late 2017 at the latest.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Sounds like we are gimping performance over PS4/XBO just to save 10 cents a year on electricity.

Let me guess it should have a green 4500 RPM hard drive that idles after 5 seconds too?

Pass. I'll keep my PS4.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
it would be extremely difficult. You would have to make sure it was more powerful than tablet computers for at least 4-5 years. You would also have to make it around $300 or less.

I...really don't know. Probably would make a PS4.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
It'd be like this -

CPU1 - Qualcomm Snapdragon dual core 1.2-1.5ghz SOC
GPU1 - Adreno iGPU (iGPU on the Snapdragon)
RAM1 - 1GB SDRAM (768mb for CPU 256mb for iGPU)

^this stuff runs the OS and peripheral services and draws all the menu graphics and animations

And then when a game starts up the rest of the system turns on

CPU2 - AMD Quad-Core desktop CPU @ 2.4ghz
RAM2 - 4GB DDR3 System RAM
GPU2 - AMD GPU (PS4 equivelant but with dedicated VRAM)
RAM2 - 2GB GDDR5

^ 100% of the power of these processors for the games as all the OS is being handled by the Qualcomm SOC.

Would save a ton of power also when games aren't running,but probably use slightly more when games are running because im going with a desktop cpu (albeit with quad cores instead of 8)

And you get the same outdated underpowered crap the current consoles are. But yours would cost more.

Also ARM and x86 cant share memory space. So not sure how you would want it to actually work.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,802
4,663
136
We're reaching a point where higher end hardware would just put more developers out of business trying to maximize their graphics for it. The Vita is powerful hardware for instance, but you might as well still use a regular PSP if all the home brew titles were available for it. Those are the titles keeping that hardware afloat, not the big budget AAA with unbelievable graphics.
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,181
35
91
Whenever someone creates these threads and names specific hardware components, I stop reading. You have no idea what goes into creating a game console. Hardware is the last step. The Xbox One didn't even have its clock speed finalized until a few months before release.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
No, it would out perform PS4 and also be much better to develop for.

For starters, non unified RAM.

Lets say you have 3GB of textures. Now you have to use main RAM to store all 3GB of textures and swap them in and out of the 2GB as needed, leaving 1 GB main RAM left.

PS4 will have 5GB free.

You could write a good texture manager that had textures in one place at a time (massive bandwidth hit negating split memory advantage) but you'd have to have impose strict texture block sizes to avoid eventual memory fragmentation (negating the easier to program clause). Even if VMM and page table manipulation can hide the fragmentation you'd have physical cache line misses out the ass.

Just a small example.

CPU roughly the same aggregate performance (half cores and I'll just round up double the clock) but high clock = more leakage = more heat and power consumption.
 
Last edited:

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
And you get the same outdated underpowered crap the current consoles are. But yours would cost more.

Also ARM and x86 cant share memory space. So not sure how you would want it to actually work.

If I'm not mistaken, the OP specified that the ARM parts would have their own dedicated RAM, so your point isn't really valid. Second, AMD's upcoming ARM/x86 hybrids will be sharing both RAM and cache. But that is still a ways out. Microsoft and Sony could easily have stuck a vastly more powerful APU into their consoles, but they had to keep the costs down to an acceptable level. Or, in MS's case, to put in the utterly worthless Kinect. ;)

Sounds like we are gimping performance over PS4/XBO just to save 10 cents a year on electricity.

Let me guess it should have a green 4500 RPM hard drive that idles after 5 seconds too?

Pass. I'll keep my PS4.

Could use an SSD, and I expect people will be installing SSDs into their PS4s if they haven't done so already. Again, cost though.


Whenever someone creates these threads and names specific hardware components, I stop reading. You have no idea what goes into creating a game console. Hardware is the last step. The Xbox One didn't even have its clock speed finalized until a few months before release.

Eh? General hardware is going to come up pretty early on in the process, not at the end. Specifics may not be nailed down until the final year of development, but vendors are going to be courting and bidding very early.

Second, the Xbone was originally going to have a CPU clock of 1.6Ghz and a GPU clock of 800Mhz. They raised it in the 11th hour to 1.75Ghz and 853Mhz to try close the gap to the PS4 and because developers were panning them. Microsoft seems to have screwed up with the Xbox One at every stage of the process.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
PS4 will have 5GB free.

PS4 only allows access to 5GB of the 8GB pool to developers.

CPU roughly the same aggregate performance (half cores and I'll just round up double the clock) but high clock = more leakage = more heat and power consumption.

I think he failed to draw the distinction for most, but I'm pretty sure he was trying to say, "I'm not going to use those crappy netbook chips in my console!" He specifically mentioned AMD's desktop part, which would be Steamroller vs. Jaguar. Also, high frequency chips tend to be built on a process that is more tolerant to it. Chips like Jaguar are usually not built on that same process.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
Aim a little higher. Wii U is comparable to the PS3 in performance times. Aiming for 1024x600 rendering resolutions at 30fps is simply not acceptable today. Thats part of why the Xbox One is getting so much flak, 720p30 for its biggest titles. The likelihood of the XB1 lasting 10 years is laughable, when ARM tablets will surpass it in late 2016, late 2017 at the latest.

Honestly I think the concept of console hardware lasting 5 years is a joke. Instead of a $400 console that they milk for that long, I would rather buy a Wii U-level console today for $200 and then in three or four years buy a console that creams either the Xbone or the PS4 for $200.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
PS4 only allows access to 5GB of the 8GB pool to developers.

Which is still more than the 2GB on the GPU specified. So you get lower vram on the same part and you are supposed to call that good enough?

Honestly that's aiming too low. You can probably get ~GTX760 performance in a $500 box if you are buying so many parts at once for the volume discount. A GTX760 is much better (especially for 1080p) than any APU out there.
 

futurefields

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2012
6,470
32
91
Lets say you have 3GB of textures. Now you have to use main RAM to store all 3GB of textures and swap them in and out of the 2GB as needed, leaving 1 GB main RAM left.

No, the system would have 2GB dedicated VRAM so they would not be using 3GB worth of textures. You don't think 2GB of VRAM is enough for 1080p? On a console? I think it's more than enough and textures could look stunning.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
No, the system would have 2GB dedicated VRAM so they would not be using 3GB worth of textures. You don't think 2GB of VRAM is enough for 1080p? On a console? I think it's more than enough and textures could look stunning.

Its silly to use dedicated memory unless there is a purpose to do so. For example speed. In the consoles there is no purpose to use dedicated VRAM. And the only thing you get with dedicated memory is lack of flexibility for maximum memory usage and added costs.
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,832
37
91
I wish broadband was fast enough to stream 4k resolution games and the platform would be a simple client and a gamepad that I could play on any compatable device. To hell with hardware, I want gaming to be as simple and streamlined as Netflix. Grab a gamepad, turn on laptop, TV or whatever and click on app, choose game and play.
 

futurefields

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2012
6,470
32
91
Its silly to use dedicated memory unless there is a purpose to do so. For example speed. In the consoles there is no purpose to use dedicated VRAM. And the only thing you get with dedicated memory is lack of flexibility for maximum memory usage and added costs.

There is certainly a purpose of using dedicated memory - you can use GDDR5 for graphics and DDR3 for system. Because that's the type of memory that works best in their respective roles.

XB1 uses all DDR3 - good for system use but mediocre for graphics (low bandwidth)
PS4 uses all GDDR5 - good for graphics but mediocre for system use (high latency)

It would also save on cost, you don't need 8GB of GDDR5 in a console that only has power to run 1080p at most when pushing "next gen" graphics. 2GB is more than sufficient here. And since DDR3 is both cheaper and better suited for system RAM, it's a win-win situation.