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If I Wanted America to Fail

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QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,017
1
76
That's a bunch of bunk. We tried the deregulated approach, and had a huge oil spill in the gulf, the government properly put the brakes on drilling until environmental and safety concerns are addressed.
LOL liberal fail #2. A government-owned company breaking its own regulations and the regulations of our government \= "deregulated approach". That's just beyond ludicrous.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,747
4,619
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LOL liberal fail #2. A government-owned company breaking its own regulations and the regulations of our government \= "deregulated approach". That's just beyond ludicrous.
BP and Haliburton are government owned? I did not know that. Please do tell more.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
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I did address the point the pictures were intended to raise. The point the pictures were intended to raise was govt knows best by showing us examples of pollution from a country where govt knows best. You are fine to disregard the source of the pictures. The rest of us will critique them as we please.
Certainly, it's a free country. That includes the freedom to be dishonest. It brings us back to my original question, "Are you guys even capable of honest arguments?" It would seem not, which only underscores just how hollow your position is.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
0
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I've been reading the comments in other places about this video, it sure seems to have hit a nerve with the hate America liberal crowd, they're going nuts.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
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So if there were no regulations on pollution, private industry wouldn't pollute? That's what you're saying?
He's not saying anything. That would require him to actually make a sincere attempt to discuss the topic at hand. His only interest is deflecting from it, to draw attention from the bankrupt belief that business is good and government is bad.
 

woodie1

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2000
5,947
0
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If I Wanted America to Fail

Simply continue with the current administration. It's a guaranteed recipe for disaster.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
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So if there were no regulations on pollution, private industry wouldn't pollute? That's what you're saying?
If there were no regulations on polluting then some industries would pollute as much as they could.
What you and Bowfinger are being dishonest liars about is that most Republicans support the elimination of all pollution regulation. We don't.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,747
4,619
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If you want America to fail, elect Romney. He and Paul Ryan will give us the austerity that failed in Europe and put UK into a double dip recession.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
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So when senseamp claimed capitalism = ecological disaster ...
Link? Was that in another thread, because I just looked at all his posts and he didn't say it in this one. Once again, "Are you guys even capable of honest arguments?"


But our counter claim of government = ecological disaster is a straw man?
OK, I didn't say that either. You're 0 for 2 on the honesty scale. What I actually said is, "Those aren't examples of what happens when "big govt isnt allowed to run amuck". They are examples of what happens when industry IS allowed to run amok, without a solid framework of environmental regulations to force a reasonable balance between greed and public health." The straw man was, "liberals use pictures from China's ecological disaster as proof of what happens when big govt isnt allowed to run amuck". Which is what I clearly said, had you been interested in honest discussion.


You are so intellectually dishonest it is almost beyond belief.
I was tempted to use this comment to teach Genx87 what irony truly is, but realized that's not right either. Your comment is hypocrisy, plain and simple. The lack of intellectual honesty is yours.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
0
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If you want America to fail, elect Romney. He and Paul Ryan will give us the austerity that failed in Europe and put UK into a double dip recession.
“The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money” – Margaret Thatcher
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
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Really. So if Solyndra went to Obama and said "look, if you let us dump all our toxic waste into the river we can produce your solar panels at a good price and make you look good for your election", Obama would say no? So what if a few hundred people get cancer from pollution. It's "for the greater good" after all!
:rolleyes:

Wow. Speaking of intellectual dishonesty.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,747
4,619
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“The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money” – Margaret Thatcher
The UK tried austerity too.


This is what Romney & Ryan want to imitate.
While they are bashing Obama's recovery, they want to imitate UK's austerity induced stagnation.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
If there were no regulations on polluting then some industries would pollute as much as they could.
What you and Bowfinger are being dishonest liars about is that most Republicans support the elimination of all pollution regulation. We don't.
Speaking of dishonest liars, kindly quote where I said Republicans support the elimination of all pollution regulation. Oh wait, you can't because I never said anything of the sort. I thought you said something about no longer being such a dishonest partisan hack? Here's a hint: you're not doing very well.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
0
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It is so amusing to watch liberals use pictures from China's ecological disaster as proof of what happens when big govt isnt allowed to run amuck in the private sector protecting everything in this country.
They use pictures from China and then get outraged and call you dishonest when you point it out? Typical liberals.
 

JohnnyGage

Senior member
Feb 18, 2008
703
0
71
Speaking of dishonest liars, kindly quote where I said Republicans support the elimination of all pollution regulation. Oh wait, you can't because I never said anything of the sort. I thought you said something about no longer being such a dishonest partisan hack? Here's a hint: you're not doing very well.
I think he was addressing Sensamp, so probably not directed at you.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
15,947
4,057
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I think he was addressing Sensamp, so probably not directed at you.
It depends on how representative of the Republican party one thinks the Teabagger contengent is. If they had their way, they would eliminate the EPA and have stated so several times.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,876
460
126
Yes, I know. My point is that your point is dishonest. Rather than considering the photos honestly, addressing the point they were intended to raise, you tried to spin them into a phony argument you could attack. "Oh, lookie, liberals don't know China is big government. Loliberals! /smirk." (Paraphrased, of course.) It's a classic straw man. You continuing to hack at your straw man doesn't change the fact it is one.
The point they were intended to make was a total lie. That's kind of our point. The left is the side attempting to move American to be more like Red China, not the right. I think the Dems are on balance better on environment and conservation than are the Republicans, but the video is spot-on about these regulations killing America. I think in great measure it's because China's government-run economy is allowed unfettered access to our market - although that's a self-eliminating problem as the generation being schooled now is probably the last able to be a consumer culture. Future generations will have to toil to pay back China.

EDIT: If you show Chinese environmental disaster photos and claim this is the Republicans' dream, expect to be considered as either totally dishonest or totally idiotic. And I'm specifically not ruling out both.
 
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monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
0
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I think he was addressing Sensamp, so probably not directed at you.
I included Bowfinger since I agree with Genx87 that showing pictures of a totalitarian/authoritarian country like China is inherently dishonest with regards to Republicans and environmental regulation.
It seemed to me that Bowfinger was calling Genx87 dishonest for calling senseamp on it. To be clear as a Republican I support some environmental regulation but not all of it.
If I was too quick to call Bowfinger a liar by his support of the photos then I apologize.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
0
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It depends on how representative of the Republican party one thinks the Teabagger contengent is. If they had their way, they would eliminate the EPA and have stated so several times.
By eliminating the EPA would they eliminate all laws and regulations concerning the environment also?

As if you'd give me an honest answer.
 

alzan

Diamond Member
May 21, 2003
3,861
2
0
After enacting enough regulation in the United States to send electronics manufacturing to china. Apple regulated itself about labor practices at one of their suppliers when Chinese govt policy didnt. How did they ever do that? Oh that is right, a vigilant public sent a msg to Apple. They didnt like labor practices at a supplier of Apple. If the public is able to do that from thousands of miles away. Imagine what it could do closer to home?
Government regulations are just one of the reasons the manufacturing went to China: a significant amount of the raw materials are in abundance in China, cheaper labor costs, and virtually non-existant regulations from the government as far as human rights and environmental concerns, etc. You might want look at some from the air pictures of Beijing to put non-governmental regulations, as far as air quality is concerned, into perspective.

Kudos to Apple and to the people who forced them to take a hard look at their labor practices! As the social media networks grow and people are made aware of companies bad practices we'll hopefully see a lot more of these actions; or to put it another way, one down, several hundred thousand to go.

It's great that people are getting involved and are sometimes able to force change, but private sector companies are fully capable of regulating themselves if they choose to; but when they don't and people can't make them change, then the government needs to step in. Besides, it's really not the governments, or peoples, fault that companies don't choose to act ethically or legally, is it?

alzan
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
The point they were intended to make was a total lie. That's kind of our point. The left is the side attempting to move American to be more like Red China, not the right.
Perhaps in some areas, but the exact opposite is true with respect to the environment. I'm pretty sure everyone understood that those photos were narrowly focused on the environment.


I think the Dems are on balance better on environment and conservation than are the Republicans, but the video is spot-on about these regulations killing America.
The video was pure BS, a non-stop series of straw man claims and empty innuendo. It was designed to make wing-nuts feel good by reinforcing what they've been brainwashed to accept as truth. It's RNC propaganda, nothing more.

That said, regulations are certainly problematic in specific cases, and those cases should be fixed. That hardly justifies the breathless hyperbole, "these regulations are killing America". It would be just as accurate to say it's the lack of regulations (or at least the lack of enforcement) that's killing America. For every case you can cite of a bad regulation, I can offer an example of a bad non-regulation. We'll start with the Finance sector and work our way out.


I think in great measure it's because China's government-run economy is allowed unfettered access to our market - although that's a self-eliminating problem as the generation being schooled now is probably the last able to be a consumer culture. Future generations will have to toil to pay back China.
That I agree with. What does this have to do with over-regulation? The fact that China imposes almost no regulation doesn't mean we should race to the bottom to meet them ... unless you truly do want those pictures to represent America too. We set the bar higher because we recognize the need to balance greed against the best interests of the American people. China doesn't strike that balance, plus their standard of living is far lower than ours. Give them free access to our markets and they have a huge competitive advantage. The problem there is the free access, however, not that we demand our businesses be good citizens.


EDIT: If you show Chinese environmental disaster photos and claim this is the Republicans' dream, expect to be considered as either totally dishonest or totally idiotic. And I'm specifically not ruling out both.
I took the photos as sarcasm, intended to caution Republicans about being too eager to slash regulations. Regulations are mostly a good thing, even though at times they go too far or are enforced over-zealously. The solution is to fix those specific problems, not bounce around screeching about how regulations are making America fail.
 
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