If HDDs and DVD-RWs are on the way out...

[VirtualLarry]

And M.2 or U.2 PCI-E storage is getting more popular, are we going to see the death of SATA ports and 2.5" SSDs?

Edit: I like SATA. At least, for HDDs and DVD-RWs / BR drives. A nice, small connector, plenty of bandwidth, great latency properties. Unfortunately, it's not ideal for SSDs, and has largely been surpassed there by PCI-E, at the cutting edge. (And the price reflects that too.)

There just isn't enough room on an ATX mobo, if you're still going to put plenty of PCI-E (vertical) slots on it, to fit more than 2, maybe at a stretch 3, M.2 PCI-E slots. So you couldn't fit 6 M.2 slots on an ATX board, unless you forgo most of the PCI-E slots.

So for people like AdamK47 (sorry, using you as an example due to your .sig), that have 5 SATA SSDs in RAID-0 for storage, they wouldn't be able to go to M.2 for that storage, even if they wanted to, due to the bandwidth increase (PCI-E lanes permitting, I guess), due to the physical layout space on the board.

Unless, maybe, we get ATX boards with rows and rows of M.2 slots on the underside of the board. Hmm. We would need more PCI-E lanes from the CPU/chipset for this though.

 

[Sheep221]

You just answered yourself, SATA SSD is not being phased out because mobos in present ATX format are not large enough to physically support many of them.
I would suggest just get one M 2 as a system drive and the rest being SATA SSDs = win.

 

[cbn]

There just isn't enough room on an ATX mobo, if you're still going to put plenty of PCI-E (vertical) slots on it, to fit more than 2, maybe at a stretch 3, M.2 PCI-E slots. So you couldn't fit 6 M.2 slots on an ATX board, unless you forgo most of the PCI-E slots.

The alternative would be to use add-in-boards with Multiple M.2 slots:

http://www.servethehome.com/the-dell-4x-m-2-pcie-x16-version-of-the-hp-z-turbo-quad-pro/

 

[cbn]

Edit: I like SATA. At least, for HDDs and DVD-RWs / BR drives. A nice, small connector, plenty of bandwidth, great latency properties.

Besides having a different connector, does anyone know if SATA DVD-RWs / BR drives are more durable than their usb counterparts for the purposes of simple playback? In particular I am thinking of the full size SATA ones.

One reason I am asking is because I was quite amazed to find out my Public Library has huge selection of movies (including new releases)/documentaries available for check out in both DVD and Blu-Ray. (EDIT: After reading about some of the problems with Blu-Ray playback software for the PC maybe it is better just to buy a dedicated Blue Ray Player ---> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/blu-ray-dvd-players/blu-ray-players/abcat0102003.c?id=abcat0102003)

Then, of course, Netflix DVD service and Red Box are also a service used by folks.

So I am wondering if for durability purposes it makes sense to go for one of those big SATA optical drives vs. one of those thin usb ones for someone that plans on using an optical drive quite a bit.

If SATA drives are more durable, well then that is one reason to keep them around.

 

[JeffMD]

OP hilariously thinks that computers will only have the main hard drive.

 

[VirtualLarry]

OP hilariously thinks that computers will only have the main hard drive.

I'm not really sure where you got that idea. I specifically mentioned AdamK47's setup, with five RAID'ed SSDs.

My commentary was based around the fact that SSDs, are moving towards M.2 / PCI-E now, because SATA has become such a severe bottleneck for them.

So people that want all SSD storage on their rigs, have to either stick with SATA SSDs for storage, and lose out on huge sequential transfer rates, or find some way (such as those HP multi-M.2 PCI-E x16 cards that cbn so helpfully linked) to shoehorn in as many M.2 PCI-E slots as they need.

 

[jkauff]

I have both a DVD-RW and a BD-RW drive, full-size SATA. I don't think either provide any particular advantage over slim USB drives for playback.

I use my Blu-ray writer for off-site data backups (the Library of Congress has standardized on BD-R for archiving), and I also back up my movies to my hard drives (the discs get stored off-site, too), so the read/write quality is important to me.

Most all optical drives are cheap Chinese imports these days. The only exceptions are a couple of companies that still make quality BD-RW SATA drives.

That said, if you only want to watch movies, you can get a nice, small Sony Blu-ray drive for about $70 that if connected to the web will also play Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc. I have one in addition to my computer drive, hooked up to my TV.

 

[plopke]

There just isn't enough room on an ATX mobo, if you're still going to put plenty of PCI-E (vertical) slots on it, to fit more than 2, maybe at a stretch 3, M.2 PCI-E slots. So you couldn't fit 6 M.2 slots on an ATX board, unless you forgo most of the PCI-E slots.

I still dont see the problem with U.2 replacing sata , except that cables are expensive but i assume thats because they aren't mass produced?

Everytime i bring up U.2 the following arguments always appear:
The cables are bulky. But they aren't ? not much more or less the same cable mess as sata i would say?

The cable is untrustworthy, all my data is going over them : nothing new since IDE,sata,....

they take up to much space, well the entire point of U.2 would be for raid setup and very big 3.5 drives or multiple 2.5 inch drives.

PCIe Adapter : So making a entire custom peace of hardware instead of using U.2 , I find it a bit silly , but yes it could work

We can use PCIe slots :Scales a little better then M.2 slots. But you would end up in big PCIe adapters in the end. Useless in smaller form factors.

stacking or vertical M.2 : Except asus motherboards trying out with vertical connectors not popular since you need some brace to hold them, This might actually work if the bracing is like make a standard?

Uniform connector : M.2 is even to fat, for extra slim builds it will be soldered on SSD's that come in one package , so i could say M.2 is only made for intermediate laptops. Uniform connectors makes one platform almost always suffer in some way.

So the only argument for me so far which make U.2 not optimal for desktops would be pricing of the implementation, but i find it hard to believe a custom PCIe slotted card to hold one or multiple M.2 drives is cheaper.

PS for all we know with optane\3DXpoint we might get all our SSDs in dimmm format ;p

 

[cbn]

That said, if you only want to watch movies, you can get a nice, small Sony Blu-ray drive for about $70 that if connected to the web will also play Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc. I have one in addition to my computer drive, hooked up to my TV.

Those players seem like a good deal and by all accounts I have seen the video and audio quality of blu-ray is superior to anything offered by a streaming service.

With that mentioned, I wonder what will happen with 4K Blu-ray. Will the next PlayStation (and Xbox) help bring this format into the mainstream? (Current 4K Blu-ray players at Best Buy start at $400).

 

[cbn]

Regarding Blu-Ray for the PC, I am surprised Microsoft never rolled out a version of the following app for Windows:

http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/apps/dvd-blu-ray-setup

(Notice the publisher of the Blu-ray player app in the link above is Microsoft)

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Those players seem like a good deal and by all accounts I have seen the video and audio quality of blu-ray is superior to anything offered by a streaming service.

If you just need something that can playback blu-rays, they're actually a very good deal. PowerDVD 16 Ultra (which you need for 7.1 channel audio) is €100 all by itself. Never mind the system its going to run on.

Don't bother with PC blu-ray playback, unless you demand the absolute best quality.

Edit; Blu-rays have far better image quality then any streaming service...

With that mentioned, I wonder what will happen with 4K Blu-ray. Will the next PlayStation (and Xbox) help bring this format into the mainstream? (Current 4K Blu-ray players at Best Buy start at $400).

I'd wait a few years for the dust to settle on those. Buying first-gen players is usually a bad idea.

Regarding Blu-Ray for the PC, I am surprised Microsoft never rolled out a version of the following app for Windows:

http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/apps/dvd-blu-ray-setup

(Notice the publisher of the Blu-ray player app in the link above is Microsoft)

Likely some licensing concerns.

 

[cbn]

If you just need something that can playback blu-rays, they're actually a very good deal. PowerDVD 16 Ultra (which you need for 7.1 channel audio) is €100 all by itself. Never mind the system its going to run on.

For Cyberlink, do you happen to know if they update the AACS keys on the older versions of PowerDVD Pro and Ultra? Or does a person have to upgrade to the newest version in order to play the newest Blu-ray titles.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I'm not really sure where you got that idea. I specifically mentioned AdamK47's setup, with five RAID'ed SSDs.

My commentary was based around the fact that SSDs, are moving towards M.2 / PCI-E now, because SATA has become such a severe bottleneck for them.

So people that want all SSD storage on their rigs, have to either stick with SATA SSDs for storage, and lose out on huge sequential transfer rates, or find some way (such as those HP multi-M.2 PCI-E x16 cards that cbn so helpfully linked) to shoehorn in as many M.2 PCI-E slots as they need.

When Microcenter stops selling 3.5" SATA HDDs, start to worry about it. Maybe the chipset after the chipset that comes out after that will drop SATA. Maybe.

That said, just because SATA is in the chipset doesn't mean it has to be implemented - expect more entry level motherboards to have 2-3 SATA ports plus USB3.1 and m.2, instead of 4-6 SATA Ports + eSATA.

 

[BSim500]

My commentary was based around the fact that SSDs, are moving towards M.2 / PCI-E now, because SATA has become such a severe bottleneck for them.

In actual normal usage outside of synthetic benchmarks, it really hasn't. The biggest advantage of SSD's isn't the sequential, it's the random & access times. Likewise, setting up 5x 1TB SSD's in RAID0 to store some video files is an ultra-fringe case given most people will buy a 6TB HDD instead saving themselves $1,200 in the process... SATA ports along with HDD's are going to be here for a long while. See PS/2 & VGA ports, RS232 serial (COM) & parallel port headers and legacy PCI slots on Skylake motherboards as good examples of how long old standards endure just because The Next Big Thing (tm) comes out. Samsung Pro's have 10 year warranties. What use is that if you couldn't use them next year? Motherboard designers do generally understand people reuse existing expensive stuff, have longer upgrade cycles, and regularly offer different sub-classes of board with different connectivity options. You're more likely to see 1-3x M2 slots + 4-6 SATA slots continue as mainstream with various alternative niche options for the 12 people on the planet who want to run out and blow $1,900 on RAIDed Samsung 950 PRO's to put their 3TB of funny cat videos on...

As for optical drives, it's easy to hang round tech forums giving the impression "I didn't include one in my latest Mini-ITX self-build, therefore no one anywhere ever uses them". In reality, most PC's sold are full size notebooks (15.6") and most of them still come with an optical drive, as do OEM desktops (Dell Inspiron, etc). People still rip and watch CD's, DVD's & Blu-Ray's, despite a few streaming services "competing" with barely 5-15% of the content, far worse picture quality and "rotating availability". HTPC's use them (because you'd look a right dork if a friend turned up with a disc you don't already have pre-ripped and isn't on any streaming service and you had to admit a $750 Home Theatre PC couldn't do simple stuff like "play films from more than one source" like your neighbors $50 standalone). Optical drives are still widely used as a secondary / tertiary backup medium (one that's a damn site more reliable for storing long-term static data over 1-20 years than an unpowered TLC SSD / flash drive is, is immune to ransomware, etc). OS's & older games are still installed by them. The list goes on. As for SSD's completely killing off HDD's (not just replacing boot / game drives but everything including mass data storage too), someone wake me up when I can buy a 3TB MLC SSD for $85...

 

[Insert_Nickname]

For Cyberlink, do you happen to know if they update the AACS keys on the older versions of PowerDVD Pro and Ultra? Or does a person have to upgrade to the newest version in order to play the newest Blu-ray titles.

About once every half year or so, it'll inform you that you need to update the keys. Don't know if it actually does anything though. I'm still on 12, and I've not had anything not play yet.

The latest update for 12 is dated 2015-09-08;

Updates to PowerDVD 12 Ultra build 5612
Installing this patch update adds support for the latest Blu-ray movies.

Of course YMMV.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Too bad that SATAe is only x2 (as I understand it). If there was a viable conversion cable that would plug into a mobo SATAe port, and give you a U.2 cable end for a PCI-E SSD, that could actually make SATAe popular.

 

[cbn]

Too bad that SATAe is only x2 (as I understand it).

Its x 2, but uses PCIe 2.0 (rather than PCIe 3.0).