If France doesn't "matter" anymore - what's the definition of a country that does?

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Fencer128

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Jun 18, 2001
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A lot of people think that France's views are redundant now. I've heard the phrase "does not matter". My question is what makes a country's viewpoint/actions valid in your eyes? Is it their military strength? Whether they agree on principles you or something else/a combination?

I'm viewing this in the context of world/big decision making

Cheers,

Andy
 
Phokus

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: Fencer128
A lot of people think that France's views are redundant now. I've heard the phrase "does not matter". My question is what makes a country's viewpoint/actions valid in your eyes? Is it their military strength? Whether they agree on principles you or something else/a combination?

Cheers,

Andy
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Whether or not their prime minister's lips are firmly implanted on the US' arse?
rolleye.gif
 
hdeck

hdeck

Lifer
Sep 26, 2002
14,530
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Originally posted by: Fencer128
A lot of people think that France's views are redundant now. I've heard the phrase "does not matter". My question is what makes a country's viewpoint/actions valid in your eyes? Is it their military strength? Whether they agree on principles you or something else/a combination?

Cheers,

Andy
Click to expand...

any country opposing war because they are anti-US doesn't matter.
 
J

Jimbo

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: Fencer128
A lot of people think that France's views are redundant now. I've heard the phrase "does not matter". My question is what makes a country's viewpoint/actions valid in your eyes? Is it their military strength? Whether they agree on principles you or something else/a combination?

Cheers,

Andy
Click to expand...

Well, if you really want to hear something unpleasant, other countries only mean something if we say they do.

Most countries in the world just are not that significant.

 
EagleKeeper

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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A country that does not change its direction based on external public opinion.

If they commit, then stick with the commitment.
 
F

Fencer128

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
A country that does not change its direction based on external public opinion.

If they commit, then stick with the commitment.
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Couldn't that apply to France? - I see arguements both ways.
 
E

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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It depends on the context.

If you are talking about wine then France is an important nation.


If you are talking about being able to affect world events, other than having been placed on the UNSC for some reason, then France is fairly impotent and therefore inconsequential.
 
F

Fencer128

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: etech
It depends on the context.

If you are talking about wine then France is an important nation.


If you are talking about being able to affect world events, other than having been placed on the UNSC for some reason, then France is fairly impotent and therefore inconsequential.
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Good point - I mean in regard to major world decisions.

What makes a country's opinion important in this case?

Andy
 
E

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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I don't know Andy, why don't you tell us why you think France is so important in this case.

 
D

Dudd

Platinum Member
Aug 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: Fencer128
Originally posted by: etech
It depends on the context.

If you are talking about wine then France is an important nation.


If you are talking about being able to affect world events, other than having been placed on the UNSC for some reason, then France is fairly impotent and therefore inconsequential.
Click to expand...

Good point - I mean in regard to major world decisions.

What makes a country's opinion important in this case?

Andy
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Whether they have an army that is both able and willing to stand up for it's countries beliefs. France would give the US a good fight if it came to that, but I'd bet everything I had that it doesn't come to that. Also, countries that have a major influence on our economy "matter". The Middle East matters until we can find another source of energy. China matters because it is a largely untapped market of a billion people. Turkey and Kuwait matter because they have the ability to provide logistical support to our army. North Korea matters because they have the bomb and just might be irrational enough to use it. Besides that, very few countries matter. Countries only matter if their economic or military assistance is needed and is in doubt, but besides that, no one matters because they lack the ability and the resolve to stand up to us militarily.
 
F

Fencer128

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: etech
I don't know Andy, why don't you tell us why you think France is so important in this case.
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I'm trying to see if you really can label a country inconsequential on the world stage. I think that a lot of people are wrongly deciding that certain countries aren't worth listening to because they don't have the same opinion. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me. So, to see if I'm right - I turned the question round.

I wanted someone to tell me how they would decide who's worth listening to.

Andy
 
E

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
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Originally posted by: Fencer128
Originally posted by: etech
I don't know Andy, why don't you tell us why you think France is so important in this case.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to see if you really can label a country inconsequential on the world stage. I think that a lot of people are wrongly deciding that certain countries aren't worth listening to because they don't have the same opinion. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me. So, to see if I'm right - I turned the question round.

I wanted someone to tell me how they would decide who's worth listening to.

Andy
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What are the reasons that France is opposing enforcing the resolutions and agreements that they signed?



 
F

Fencer128

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: Fencer128
Originally posted by: etech
I don't know Andy, why don't you tell us why you think France is so important in this case.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to see if you really can label a country inconsequential on the world stage. I think that a lot of people are wrongly deciding that certain countries aren't worth listening to because they don't have the same opinion. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me. So, to see if I'm right - I turned the question round.

I wanted someone to tell me how they would decide who's worth listening to.

Andy
Click to expand...

What are the reasons that France is opposing enforcing the resolutions and agreements that they signed?
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From talking to French people on the ground - they tell me its because America has only wanted war from day one. They do not believe for a minute that war could be avoided through disarmament - and this 2nd UN resolution has only be tabled to make it easier for the US to go to war - not to aid inspection. That's why they don't have a problem with an unconditional veto in this case. It's like people believing France is in it for the oil. Its what you believe - and nothing they've seen makes them think that Bush would stop at disarmament - or is serious about trying to achieve it through non-war means. Not my views - theirs.

Andy

But how does this link to this thread?
 
A

AmerDoux

Senior member
Dec 4, 2001
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Andy, there is no such thing as a country who's opinion does not matter. The United States s based on the principal that all men are created equal and all men have an equal voice in matters. Some folks have lost sight of this. While I do not agree with the French position, I welcome the fact that they are free to express it. :)
 
F

Fencer128

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: AmerDoux
Andy, there is no such thing as a country who's opinion does not matter. The United States s based on the principal that all men are created equal and all men have an equal voice in matters. Some folks have lost sight of this. While I do not agree with the French position, I welcome the fact that they are free to express it. :)
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I agree - it should also mean that we don't stop listening just because we don't like what someone says presently.

Andy
 
ElFenix

ElFenix

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Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
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france matters. its just a useless UN that doesn't.
 
F

Fencer128

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,700
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Originally posted by: ElFenix
france matters. its just a useless UN that doesn't.
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Ok. I'm going to bed in a minute - so I haven't got time to go into that statement too deeply other than to say the following:

Why is it useless? - I'm talking about right now. It's failed to uphold previous resolutions before, but why is it useless right now?

and

Shouldn't you swap UN for UNSC? For more info on my view of that point see the thread "the end of the UN".

Cheers and goodnight!

Andy
 
A

AmerDoux

Senior member
Dec 4, 2001
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The UN is still very important! Just because it is not following the will of the United States doesn't make it irrelevant anymore.
This is why the US continues to present its case thru the UN.
Maintaining the integrity of the UN is critical.
 
S

Stark

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2000
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countries with opinions we should care about:

china
uk
canada (they're close and they don't suck like mexico)
israel
russia
saudi arabia
turkey
australia
japan
taiwan

opinions we should not care about:

france
vincente fox's mexico
NK
Iraq

everyone else falls somewhere in the middle.
 
E

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
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Originally posted by: AmerDoux
The UN is still very important! Just because it is not following the will of the United States doesn't make it irrelevant anymore.
This is why the US continues to present its case thru the UN.
Maintaining the integrity of the UN is critical.
Click to expand...


The UN by failing to enforce it's resolutions is what is making it irrelevant.
 
P

PullMyFinger

Senior member
Mar 7, 2001
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"If France doesn't "matter" anymore - what's the definition of a country that does?"

ANY country that can't be spelled with the letters F - R - A - N - C - E!
 
C

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Fencer128
A lot of people think that France's views are redundant now. I've heard the phrase "does not matter". My question is what makes a country's viewpoint/actions valid in your eyes? Is it their military strength? Whether they agree on principles you or something else/a combination?

I'm viewing this in the context of world/big decision making

Cheers,

Andy
Click to expand...

France is not an economic powerhouse.
France is not an military powerhouse.
France wants to be both of these and will attempt it via the EU. The only problem is, if france tells members states to shut up the EU will not last long. Anti-US at all cost is not really a good idea.
 
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