If ever there was an opening for a 3rd party in this country...

[senseamp]

Yeah, we need a party to the left of the Democrats that actually represents the American people.

 

[Craig234]

Yeah, we need a party to the left of the Democrats that actually represents the American people.

Yes, we do, which is the Progressive Caucus in the House we need to 'take over' the Democratic Party.

And that is next to impossible while the money situation is corrupted.

And having < 50% of the votes generally means 0% impact.

The Tea Party Republicans are an exception to that right now because the Republicans are allowing them to block the debt ceiling increase - so they're not < 50% of the vote.

 

[3chordcharlie]

I always thought my country's system was better with 3 (4th emerging) parties. Not really. One party that only got like 40% of the popular vote is ruling while the other 60% gets to eff themselves.

That's because in the end, Canadian elections are also supposed to produce a 'winner' who then has relatively unchecked power.

Try talking to people around you - they are much more afraid of a minority government, and 'nothing getting done' than they are of a majority victory by their least-preferred party.

This is actually a reasonable position if you believe that all parties have the well-being of the nation and good governance as their guiding principles.

Unfortunately, that assumption is ridiculous, and becoming more ridiculous all the time.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Yeah, we need a party to the left of the Democrats that actually represents the American people.

Yes, we do, which is the Progressive Caucus in the House we need to 'take over' the Democratic Party.

And that is next to impossible while the money situation is corrupted.

And having < 50% of the votes generally means 0% impact.

The Tea Party Republicans are an exception to that right now because the Republicans are allowing them to block the debt ceiling increase - so they're not < 50% of the vote.

Holy shit you guys are crazy! You think socialism works? Take a look at Europe.

Hint: Germany is tired of paying for the rest of the continent's entitlements.

The American people do not want 50% taxes to be redistributed by the all-wise Federal Government. We do not want welfare queens in the suburbs running up our federal deficits. We do not want an invasive police state that is the only consequence of granting hundred-billion-dollar budgets to federal police agencies. We want a government that protects us militarily and gives us a warm meal and a solid roof when we are down on our luck.

 

[sarsipias1234]

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[wuliheron]

Holy shit you guys are crazy! You think socialism works? Take a look at Europe.

Hint: Germany is tired of paying for the rest of the continent's entitlements.

Yeah, Germany is crying all the way to the bank. Their economy is booming, their debt is lower, and even internally they are much more socialist then the US.

 

[ProfJohn]

I didn't say their politicians are shrinking, the party members are shrinking along with public support for the party. They made a political comeback after the democrats passed the healthcare bill, but if they can't stop their membership from shrinking and the approval rating from going in the toilet on the national scene its bad news.

How can you say they are shrinking when they just had the biggest election victory in their history?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

If people just wanted a 'good party', they could elect progressive Democrats who, among many other things, would not have had this manufactured crisis.

Not enough people want Progressive Democrats or you would have it already. Your own party keeps you down. You don't need help from anyone.

When most people think of "third party" someone besides the Old Two comes to mind and even then it depends. Some want a Republican party which is even more "republican" than the original. Others want something else.

Don't worry no one will take the place of Progressive Dems since the big R/D bloc effectively own the government. That means no else gets in.

 

[sarsipias1234]

Delete

 

[ProfJohn]

Yeah, Germany is crying all the way to the bank. Their economy is booming, their debt is lower, and even internally they are much more socialist then the US.

Germany isn't as great as you guys think. For Europe they are in great shape, but compared to the US they lag in many statistics.

GDP per capita
Germany = $40,631
US = $47,284

And when you apply Purchasing power parity it becomes an even greater spread.
Germany $36,033
US = $47,284

Median House hold income adjusted for PPP (2007 figures)
Germany = $21,241
US = $31,111

They have about the same poverty rating as the US 11%

As for Unemployment.
Germany currently has a lower rate than the US, but historically their unemployment rate has always been higher than the US. In 2006 we had 4.6% unemployment to their 11.7%.
Their BEST unemployment rate for the last decade is their current rate of 7.4%. That best rate would be our third worst rate.

So obviously the German economic system is great if you want to earn less, have a lower standard of living and have higher unemployment.

 

[ProfJohn]

BTW the Greek bailout is all of $172 billion.

 

[sarsipias1234]

delete

 

[PrinceofWands]

The problem isn't that we need a '3rd', it's that we simultaneously need a 3rd, 4th, and 5th (and honestly a 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th). It's a systemic failure that can't be solved with the introduction of one new player. We need to reform it from the ground up to be inherently representative of varying ideologies rather than random platform jumbles.

Just a 3rd will be powerless, since it will only bring it's specific adherents, while leaving the bulk of improperly represented persons staying with D or R for lack of a better option. With 5-9 at once each party would pull the same small percent away from the current two, resulting in roughly balanced parties and a new playing field.

 

[Jhhnn]

The Tea Party Republicans are an exception to that right now because the Republicans are allowing them to block the debt ceiling increase - so they're not < 50&#37; of the vote.

The Tea Party has the financial backing & organizational support of some of the most right wing republican donors-

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Tea_Party

Not to mention the constant fluffing by Faux News.

And it's not like many of their members have a helluva lot to do other than roll on down to the Republican primary in their gubmint supplied rascal or hoveround, right after they check the bank balance to see if the SS check arrived on time, check their calendar to make sure not to schedule any appointments with their medicare doctors, so that they can vote to end Big Gubmint!

Others need to hustle back from their medicaid appointments to the house with its gubmint program renegotiated mortgage, stop by the store to spend up all the foodstamp allocation for the month so they won't lose it, send in the paperwork so that they'll continue to receive extended unemployment benefits... then show up to vote in the primary for somebody like Rand Paul! Such a wonderful name! He's a board certified eye doctor, too... Or the Sarah! if their wildest dreams come true- she's one of us!

The Republican leadership is absolutely terrified, largely because they've cultivated that base for decades, along with the fundies, even planted a lot of those radical ideas in their heads to motivate them... and it must be very comforting to know that shiv in your back was put there by your very bestest & wealthiest friends, too...

You did know that they'd fuck anybody who got in their way, right? You just never thought it'd be you... and you're having trouble getting campaign contributions from smaller donors, because they've been beat down by the recession that the tea party donors & media supporters are trying to intensify into a full blown depression... but you can't say anything, because then you won't get any money at all...

That's what happens when you pander to extremists- it's like feeding the bears- they'll turn on you...

 

[Jhhnn]

Germany isn't as great as you guys think. For Europe they are in great shape, but compared to the US they lag in many statistics.

GDP per capita
Germany = $40,631
US = $47,284

And when you apply Purchasing power parity it becomes an even greater spread.
Germany $36,033
US = $47,284

Median House hold income adjusted for PPP (2007 figures)
Germany = $21,241
US = $31,111

They have about the same poverty rating as the US 11%

As for Unemployment.
Germany currently has a lower rate than the US, but historically their unemployment rate has always been higher than the US. In 2006 we had 4.6% unemployment to their 11.7%.
Their BEST unemployment rate for the last decade is their current rate of 7.4%. That best rate would be our third worst rate.

So obviously the German economic system is great if you want to earn less, have a lower standard of living and have higher unemployment.

A few things you forgot to mention, like socialized zero cost healthcare & unemployment benefits that basically never run out, along with honest to goodness pensions, excellent heavily subsidized transit systems, and a sense that they're all in it together, thanks to a socially responsive corporate governance system.

They're also still feeling the after effects of re-integrating East Germany, whose economy had been systematically looted & stunted on behalf of their Soviet overlords...

Which is not to say it's all roses for them, but there's really nothing more than stupidity & greed preventing us from integrating some of their most successful ideas into our own system.

 

[sarsipias1234]

Delete

 

[ProfJohn]

A few things you forgot to mention, like socialized zero cost healthcare & unemployment benefits that basically never run out, along with honest to goodness pensions, excellent heavily subsidized transit systems, and a sense that they're all in it together, thanks to a socially responsive corporate governance system.

They're also still feeling the after effects of re-integrating East Germany, whose economy had been systematically looted & stunted on behalf of their Soviet overlords...

Which is not to say it's all roses for them, but there's really nothing more than stupidity & greed preventing us from integrating some of their most successful ideas into our own system.

So you are willing to give up a third of your income for free healthcare?

They get free healthcare, but make $10,000 less per year... sounds like a damn expensive medical plan.

 

[sarsipias1234]

Delete

 

[sarsipias1234]

Delete

 

[DominionSeraph]

I think it was smart for the Tea Party to do that. I'm not sure it was smart for the regular Republicans to play along.

For worse or for worse, the Republicans have hitched their wagon to Fox News. They've dismissed honest reporting and have become completely dependent on conservative spin. So they have no choice but to play along with Fox News' new party. If they don't, Fox News will just turn around and give them the Obama treatment while pushing a Tea Party candidate. Who are they going to turn to for balance -- the mainstream media? When they've thumbed their noses at their reporters and conditioned their constituents to ignore them in favor of conservative talk?

When your job is dependent on reputation, attaching yourself to a web of lies is a dangerous thing.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

My mother, age 70, is now in a healthcare facility due to health issues.

The total cost of care for my mom per month is nearly $8000.00 per month.

This is $96,000 dollars per year.

No average american can afford this expense.

My mom is fortunate in that she inherited her wealth to pay for the expense.

However, most people cannot afford $96,000 per year!

What happens to these people?????

I will lose all my inheritance to my mom's ultra expensive healthcare.

This is essentially a 100&#37; estate tax.

It's very expensive to be waited on hand-and-foot by qualified medical professionals, and to be given various drug treatments, food, and bed space. Health care is not cheap no matter how you cut it, and the government can't change that. All the government can do is mandate that everyone pay for everybody's health care through a tax. If the majority doesn't want to pay enormous health-care premiums, then the only thing we can do is guarantee basic care to sick individuals. Expensive treatments cannot be given to everyone for a variety of reasons, so they're expensive.

Having said that, I hope your mother feels better. My dad is getting close to that age, and I (nor my brothers) am not in any position to support him. Luckily he, like your mother, has given himself a green cushion.

 

[Jhhnn]

So you are willing to give up a third of your income for free healthcare?

They get free healthcare, but make $10,000 less per year... sounds like a damn expensive medical plan.

You haven't looked into the actual price of health insurance recently, have you?

 

[Karl Agathon]

lololololol

LMFAO @ pic :thumbsup:

 

[Carmen813]

Smartest thing the Tea Party types did was to stay within the GOP and try to change it from within.

They have a huge amount of power now compared to what they would have had as a third party getting 10&#37; of the vote in elections.

Put Perry or Bachmann in the White House and we would probably see the most conservative governing this country has ever seen. (at least post ww 2)

If either of those two people win the Presidency I will seriously consider immigrating to Toronto for a decade or two. Well, Bachmann more then Perry. She makes Palin look positively delightful.

 

[alkemyst]

Personally we need to revamp our political process. Not only has the electoral college run it's course (even in the smallest states all information is shared in real time today), the whole bipartisan system is a sham...there is no rhyme or reason to it anymore.

We should be looking into opening voting online and on single issues only.

If we can do banking/commerce online, voting should be a no-brainer.

Problem that scares those in power.