If DirectX12 can bump low end performance like Mantle, would that change your budget?

[sxr7171]

no considering even a 4770k cant stay above 60 fps the whole time in every game right now. so even with DX12 there will never be a such thing as too much cpu power as future games are likely to need even more cpu power. the goal with high end gpus is to get the most out of them so I would still get a really good cpu. cpu progress has been a joke for years now.

I'm a bit confused as to which game, because afaik I haven't played a game that was CPU limited to less than 60fps. But maybe that's because I don't really play multiplayer.

 

[Enigmoid]

Quite simply with fast GPU depreciation and slow CPU increases/depreciation, spending more on the GPU where the perf/$ will have decreased by 50% in 12-18 months rather than the CPU where performance doesn't really increase is foolish.

 

[bystander36]

I would hope that game Dev will now be able to add more advanced AI and other computational features to make games more advanced .
Instead of having game more graphic but toning down AI and other parts because not enough CPU cycles left .

They can do that now. There is plenty of CPU power left on the table now to improve AI. The only reason the CPU causes bottlenecks now is due to a single thread that feeds the GPU is over worked. There are usually 3+ other cores on the CPU that go barely used. Mantle helps the CPU split that thread into multiple threads so it can use that unused power. DX12 plans to do the same. After which, there may be less power on the table for AI and physics, though I doubt it will be a problem.

 

[toyota]

I'm a bit confused as to which game, because afaik I haven't played a game that was CPU limited to less than 60fps. But maybe that's because I don't really play multiplayer.

I am not even including some RTS or some multiplayer games which certainly cant maintain 60fps. Hitman Absolution and Crysis 3 will still drop below 60 fps in few spots. and yes those are from cpu limiting it. even at 4.3 I will drop into mid to low 50s on occasion in Hitman Absolution. heck just run the benchmark for that game if you doubt me.

 

[Ed1]

They can do that now. There is plenty of CPU power left on the table now to improve AI. The only reason the CPU causes bottlenecks now is due to a single thread that feeds the GPU is over worked. There are usually 3+ other cores on the CPU that go barely used. Mantle helps the CPU split that thread into multiple threads so it can use that unused power. DX12 plans to do the same. After which, there may be less power on the table for AI and physics, though I doubt it will be a problem.

Sure but it seems many are not coding to best dx11 efficiency . You also don't need mantle to equalize some of the CPU cycles .BF4 is prefect example here in DX11 all my core are about utilized the same, within 5% or so (75-80% approx) .
Older games were bad with one core doing all rendering and always maxed , 100% .

 

[3DVagabond]

Sure but it seems many are not coding to best dx11 efficiency . You also don't need mantle to equalize some of the CPU cycles .BF4 is prefect example here in DX11 all my core are about utilized the same, within 5% or so (75-80% approx) .
Older games were bad with one core doing all rendering and always maxed , 100% .

Look at the performance increase in MP with Mantle. I'd say there are more than a few CPU cycles left on the table by DX in BF4.

The simple fact that MS is announcing they are going to address this with DX12 means it exists and is a problem. By the time DX12 rolls around it's probably going to be a huge problem. Especially considering we are going to have 2 years of Mantle empowered games.

 

[OCGuy]

The better hardware you have, the less effective Mantle is.

Mantle gave let me slightly higher FPS, but I was already over 80, and the game did not look as good. It didn't ever cause me any stuttering like some, though. So in my situation, DX11 worked better than Mantle, which means the question "if DX12 worked as well as Mantle" is a fallacy for some users.

 

[sxr7171]

I am not even including some RTS or some multiplayer games which certainly cant maintain 60fps. Hitman Absolution and Crysis 3 will still drop below 60 fps in few spots. and yes those are from cpu limiting it. even at 4.3 I will drop into mid to low 50s on occasion in Hitman Absolution. heck just run the benchmark for that game if you doubt me.

Yes hitman absolution does that. I didn't know I was CPU limited. I'm running a 3550 at 4.8Ghz on all 4 cores so I didn't expect that it was my CPU. However this only happens on 8x MSAA. If I run 4x MSAA I never really drop below 60fps. This is why I suspect I'm still GPU limited. Hitman absolution is a weird game I've seen some SLi Titan benchmarks that show it barely scales.

With Crysis 3 I drop below 60fps with 4x TXAA, but at 2x TXAA I don't think I do.

 

[AnandThenMan]

The better hardware you have, the less effective Mantle is.

Two things. One, Mantle is still new. Two, how is giving much better performance for mainstream and entry level hardware a bad thing? It's the best thing that can possibly happen, the more people can play the latest games the better. More sales, more money to game studios, we will see better games for everyone including people with bleeding edge systems.

 

[3DVagabond]

The better hardware you have, the less effective Mantle is.

Mantle gave let me slightly higher FPS, but I was already over 80, and the game did not look as good. It didn't ever cause me any stuttering like some, though. So in my situation, DX11 worked better than Mantle, which means the question "if DX12 worked as well as Mantle" is a fallacy for some users.

That's not true. Crossfire with i7's Mantle is very effective. Also with MP and 120Hz setups. I think both of those situations are with "better hardware".

In situations where you are more or less completely GPU bound Mantle in BF4 doesn't show huge gains. Probably similar gains could be had with normal DX optimizations that AMD isn't doing because they have Mantle instead.

 

[OCGuy]

Two things. One, Mantle is still new. Two, how is giving much better performance for mainstream and entry level hardware a bad thing? It's the best thing that can possibly happen, the more people can play the latest games the better. More sales, more money to game studios, we will see better games for everyone including people with bleeding edge systems.

There is nothing wrong with any free increase in performance you can get.

My response was aimed at the question "Will you spend more on hardware?", which is counter-intuitive to the way Mantle is performing currently.

 

[rgallant]

Yes hitman absolution does that. I didn't know I was CPU limited. I'm running a 3550 at 4.8Ghz on all 4 cores so I didn't expect that it was my CPU. However this only happens on 8x MSAA. If I run 4x MSAA I never really drop below 60fps. This is why I suspect I'm still GPU limited. Hitman absolution is a weird game I've seen some SLi Titan benchmarks that show it barely scales.

With Crysis 3 I drop below 60fps with 4x TXAA, but at 2x TXAA I don't think I do.

esp sucks tonight what gpu/s -res.?

 

[toyota]

Yes hitman absolution does that. I didn't know I was CPU limited. I'm running a 3550 at 4.8Ghz on all 4 cores so I didn't expect that it was my CPU. However this only happens on 8x MSAA. If I run 4x MSAA I never really drop below 60fps. This is why I suspect I'm still GPU limited. Hitman absolution is a weird game I've seen some SLi Titan benchmarks that show it barely scales.

With Crysis 3 I drop below 60fps with 4x TXAA, but at 2x TXAA I don't think I do.

yes in Hitman you will get cpu limited drops in some spots because of poor optimization. again just run the benchmark and you will see that even if you lower the res your gpu usage will drop off at the same spots and it will dip below 60fps. I narrowed down the culprit in that game which is the screen reflections setting. lowering that to high did nothing but lowering it to medium showed the fps go from 52 fps up to 81 fps in the same spot. to be clear I was 100% cpu limited in that spot as the framerate was the same at 1280 as it was at 1920. Crysis 3 has a few spots that will drop below 60 fps but with a 4770k at 4.3 its very very rare and usually just a hair under 60 fps. I did see 53 fps once though and I can repeat that even at 1280 there too. basically I am just being a bit picky because I think no game should ever be cpu limited enough to drop below 60 fps with a high end cpu.