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If and when we leave Iraq

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,551
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Do you think it would be a good idea to let a bunch of them immigrate to the US like we allowed the Vietnamese to do after we left Vietnam? Do you think that they would assimilate into the American culture like the Vietnamese did and become a vital part of America or do you think they'd not assimilate well and turn into a situation like what's happening in Europe?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,214
2
0
Hard to say. You break it you buy it, but on the other hand how many of these new immigrants would be majorly pissed and hold big grudges because of the fact that they only moved due to the US destroying their culture, bombing their cousin, etc.? I don't know how well the vietmaese immigrants worked out. It seems quite well, but I'm not sure of their selection process.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,269
490
126
Look at your question from this angle, many servicemen married vietnamese and before that korean and japanese during those conflicts, how many do you see doing that in Iraq and why is that?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,917
173
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Originally posted by: 1prophet
Look at your question from this angle, many servicemen married vietnamese and before that korean and japanese during those conflicts, how many do you see doing that in Iraq and why is that?
^ Interesting point.

But to the OP's question, I say we should allow some Iraqi's who wish to immigrate the opportunity to do so. I think it should be a mix of Shia, Sunni and Kurds, as well as some of their minorities (Christians etc).

I think we should also consider setting up various programs like university exchange students coming over here to study etc. Let's get to know each other a bit. If I were in charge, we'd prolly already have had some of their leaders over here speaking about the situation etc over there, instead of the crappy vapid MSM reports we get now.

Edit: Forgot to answer your 2nd question - I think them likely to assimilate. I believe Detroit has a large (former) Iraqi population, from what I'm led to believe, they've assimilated.

Fern
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,560
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We should keep the muslims out, probably would be safer. Just look what's happening to Europe. You want that here?

Political correctness is going to be the downfall of society.

It's going to happen to us anyways some way or another, already happening with Mexicans. Oh well. I just won't have any kids.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
23,003
770
126
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
We should keep the muslims out, probably would be safer. Just look what's happening to Europe. You want that here?

Political correctness is going to be the downfall of society.

It's going to happen to us anyways some way or another, already happening with Mexicans. Oh well. I just won't have any kids.
Our gene pool thanks you.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,268
4
0
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Hard to say. You break it you buy it, but on the other hand how many of these new immigrants would be majorly pissed and hold big grudges because of the fact that they only moved due to the US destroying their culture, bombing their cousin, etc.? I don't know how well the vietmaese immigrants worked out. It seems quite well, but I'm not sure of their selection process.
It seems that to many of them bombing their cousins IS their culture.
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
773
32
91
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
We should keep the muslims out, probably would be safer. Just look what's happening to Europe. You want that here?

Political correctness is going to be the downfall of society.

It's going to happen to us anyways some way or another, already happening with Mexicans. Oh well. I just won't have any kids.
Our gene pool thanks you.
:D Couldn't have said it better.

I think we should welcome anyone that wishes to immigrate, as long as it's done legally. With the baby boomers soon to retire, we could sure use the extra tax payers.

On the cultural issue, I often wonder how there can be so much animosity between Christians, Jews, and Muslims. We all worship the same God. Seems like we could do a better job of finding common ground.

 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,991
2
0
Maybe its time to turn the question around and ask what the Iraqis will feel about us when we finally leave their country when our occupation ends. When you add our troops to all the private contractors, we are talking in excess of 300,000 people. Maybe my question may become moot if the Iraq they leave does not remotely resembled the borders it had before they came, but it is always the end game fate of any foreign occupation.

Maybe Iraq could be compared to Vietnam. A Vietnam the US finally left when we accepted defeat by calling in peace with honor. At least in the case of Vietnam, Vietnamese hatred has been fairly mild, at least in MHO. But that is the one constant in their history, they have been occupied countless times in the past and its the duty of the country to expel the foreign occupier no matter how long it takes. And since military might has never been the means of Vietnamese history, they have a rich history of the means to use.

And even if Iraq is a new country almost without a history, they are still in a region that has an almost thousand year history of being occupied by Western armies, Iraq too may have that forgive and forget after we leave. And even now uses the same time honored tactics that have induced those same Western armies to leave their soil. No matter how long it takes.

Our time frames regard four or five years as a long time, they are just getting started after a century.

Having is not holding, how long were the Brits in India? And they too got the old heave ho after a few centuries of complete domination.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,387
141
116
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Hard to say. You break it you buy it, but on the other hand how many of these new immigrants would be majorly pissed and hold big grudges because of the fact that they only moved due to the US destroying their culture, bombing their cousin, etc.? I don't know how well the vietmaese immigrants worked out. It seems quite well, but I'm not sure of their selection process.
It seems that to many of them bombing their cousins IS their culture.
Just curious what your definition of "many" is?

Even in a hotbed of terrorist activity like Iraq, how "many" from their 27.5 million national population would you say has bombed a fellow Iraqi? 0.5%? 0.05%?

How many bombers have struck in countries not currently invaded/occupied in a US-led war? How often do bombers strike their own in Iran? Saudi Arabia? Smaller Gulf nations?

I'm just trying to quantify this elusive "many of them" catch-all that I keep hearing about.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
44,410
4,188
136
I think we have a moral and ethical duty to allow those who actively assisted us in Iraq to immigrate - translators and so forth. These would be highly educated and Western leaning folks whose lives would be in danger if they were left behind.

I believe they would prosper in the United States, and that they would be eternally grateful and patriotic Americans, much as those who managed to make it here from eastern Europe during its post war Soviet domination are.

Our intelligence services could use native arabic speakers who also understand all the nuances of the culture, too, you know.

Plus, it would be simply the right thing to do. :thumbsup:
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,921
3
0
Due to the different nature of this conflict, that is the fear of suicide bombers and other extremists who may continue fighting once on American soil, I don't see it happening. Not saying it should or shouldn't, but this situation is much different from Vietnam. In Vietnam when we were gone we were gone, the Vietnamese had no interest in attacking us anymore. Now there would be a perception that allowing Muslims in would be bringing the war to us, because Islamic extremism doesn't end when we pull out of Iraq.

Apples to oranges I'd say.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Administrator
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
28
86
Originally posted by: Perknose
I think we have a moral and ethical duty to allow those who actively assisted us in Iraq to immigrate - translators and so forth. These would be highly educated and Western leaning folks whose lives would be in danger if they were left behind.

I believe they would prosper in the United States, and that they would be eternally grateful and patriotic Americans, much as those who managed to make it here from eastern Europe during its post war Soviet domination are.

Our intelligence services could use native arabic speakers who also understand all the nuances of the culture, too, you know.

Plus, it would be simply the right thing to do. :thumbsup:
QFT! :thumbsup:
 

seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
5,281
0
0
Originally posted by: Farang
Due to the different nature of this conflict, that is the fear of suicide bombers and other extremists who may continue fighting once on American soil...
Does the comparison work with the japanese after ww2? They had suicide bombers also.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
We should keep the muslims out, probably would be safer. Just look what's happening to Europe. You want that here?

Political correctness is going to be the downfall of society.

It's going to happen to us anyways some way or another, already happening with Mexicans. Oh well. I just won't have any kids.
tooo late we are here :p


Originally posted by: Farang
Due to the different nature of this conflict, that is the fear of suicide bombers and other extremists who may continue fighting once on American soil, I don't see it happening. Not saying it should or shouldn't, but this situation is much different from Vietnam. In Vietnam when we were gone we were gone, the Vietnamese had no interest in attacking us anymore. Now there would be a perception that allowing Muslims in would be bringing the war to us, because Islamic extremism doesn't end when we pull out of Iraq.

Apples to oranges I'd say.
Are you suggesting Iraqis would attack America right here right now?

The answer should be WHEN we leave Iraq, we SHOULD bring back anyone who wants to come or helped us. This isn't an issue of traitors or not - a portion of these people will still have contact with their extended family in Iraq (especially in a world of ever increasing connectivity and ease of information dispatch [bwahaha...bullshit talk how funny]) and these will serve as important links in the future for Iraq and US if any relation is to become less tense and less strained.

 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,584
345
126
Originally posted by: seemingly random
Originally posted by: Farang
Due to the different nature of this conflict, that is the fear of suicide bombers and other extremists who may continue fighting once on American soil...
Does the comparison work with the japanese after ww2? They had suicide bombers also.
The Japanese proved with their fanatic violence - attacking the US unprovoked, rushing into bullets en masse rather than be captured, horrible war crimes against nations like China, their suicide bombings in the Kamikaze program, and their fanaticism leadin gthem to want to continue war even after one nuclear bomb was dropped, that their culture is so inherently radical and violent that there's no way their society can be turned into a peaceful democracy for many decades, if not longer.

Oh, wait. It happened overnight and they have a lot less violence than we do?

But that doesn't fit the simplistic logic of the right, who has it all figured out, that the middle eastern nations are barbaric, violent cultures who can only be killed, not reasoned with.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,584
345
126
I read that 4 million Iraqis are already gone from the population in Iraq (of a starting 28 million). It's nuts.

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Look at your question from this angle, many servicemen married vietnamese and before that korean and japanese during those conflicts, how many do you see doing that in Iraq and why is that?
For two things, maybe because of cultural norms limiting interaction, and the level of danger limiting interaction?
 

StepUp

Senior member
May 12, 2004
654
0
76
Originally posted by: RY62
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
We should keep the muslims out, probably would be safer. Just look what's happening to Europe. You want that here?

Political correctness is going to be the downfall of society.

It's going to happen to us anyways some way or another, already happening with Mexicans. Oh well. I just won't have any kids.
Our gene pool thanks you.

On the cultural issue, I often wonder how there can be so much animosity between Christians, Jews, and Muslims. We all worship the same God.
Completely off topic, but I have no idea how you can say that those 3 religious groups worship the same god. On topic, I think there are compelling argument on both side.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,969
3,757
126
I think we Americans are more inclusive of foreigners than European cultures are and because of that foreigners become acculturated here much sooner than in Europe. Can't swear to that but think it's so. When you make people continuously aware they are different they go along with it. I wouldn't know who's an Iraqi if he bit me in the ass.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Do you think it would be a good idea to let a bunch of them immigrate to the US like we allowed the Vietnamese to do after we left Vietnam? Do you think that they would assimilate into the American culture like the Vietnamese did and become a vital part of America or do you think they'd not assimilate well and turn into a situation like what's happening in Europe?
There is a small town of less than 50k in Sweden that have taken in more Iraqi refugees than all of northen america put together.

How about you take them in, they can be easily exported so that you might get 3.6 million refugees from that stupid fucking war.

Now this is a pipe dream though, you really don't give a shit about anyone but you, wage a war, let them flee to Europe and then analyze OUR communities and say "it's so much worse over there, we are doing something right"

The old "Americans are stupid" thing STICKS because you ARE, you don't realise that it is YOUR actions in THEIR countries that brings the refugees to US.

No, we can't handle them, it's about fucking time you take some responsibility for your own stupid actions, personal, business and governmental responsibility.

LOL, yeah, that will happen any day now, won't it?
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I think we Americans are more inclusive of foreigners than European cultures are and because of that foreigners become American here much sooner than in Europe. Can't swear to that but think it's so. When you make people continuously aware they are different they go along with it. I wouldn't know who's an Iraqi if he bit me in the ass.
Yeah, the American way or the highway, you are inclusive if they give up their culture, Nationalistic bullshit that we won't touch is what you love.

You love your own, nothing more, nothing less, in Europe we go out of our way to include them into our society, in the US, you simply exclude them.

You pride yourself with this bullshit of words while almost EVERY refugee from your wars or from modern day Africa would NEVER want to come to America.

This is the actual truth, the only immigration to the US is highly educated people, the only immigration to Europe is from the US waged wars and those who flee from the war zones.

You know ABSOLUTELY nothing about ANYTHING, i guess that is why you go philosophical every fucking time you are asked a REAL question that would demand an answer you cannot give.

Stupid fucking American TWATS.
 

seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
5,281
0
0
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Do you think it would be a good idea to let a bunch of them immigrate to the US like we allowed the Vietnamese to do after we left Vietnam? Do you think that they would assimilate into the American culture like the Vietnamese did and become a vital part of America or do you think they'd not assimilate well and turn into a situation like what's happening in Europe?
There is a small town of less than 50k in Sweden that have taken in more Iraqi refugees than all of northen america put together.

How about you take them in, they can be easily exported so that you might get 3.6 million refugees from that stupid fucking war.

Now this is a pipe dream though, you really don't give a shit about anyone but you, wage a war, let them flee to Europe and then analyze OUR communities and say "it's so much worse over there, we are doing something right"

The old "Americans are stupid" thing STICKS because you ARE, you don't realise that it is YOUR actions in THEIR countries that brings the refugees to US.

No, we can't handle them, it's about fucking time you take some responsibility for your own stupid actions, personal, business and governmental responsibility.

LOL, yeah, that will happen any day now, won't it?
We care deeply about israel as evidenced by the massive aid. We've been instructed to care until the second coming.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
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Originally posted by: seemingly random
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Do you think it would be a good idea to let a bunch of them immigrate to the US like we allowed the Vietnamese to do after we left Vietnam? Do you think that they would assimilate into the American culture like the Vietnamese did and become a vital part of America or do you think they'd not assimilate well and turn into a situation like what's happening in Europe?
There is a small town of less than 50k in Sweden that have taken in more Iraqi refugees than all of northen america put together.

How about you take them in, they can be easily exported so that you might get 3.6 million refugees from that stupid fucking war.

Now this is a pipe dream though, you really don't give a shit about anyone but you, wage a war, let them flee to Europe and then analyze OUR communities and say "it's so much worse over there, we are doing something right"

The old "Americans are stupid" thing STICKS because you ARE, you don't realise that it is YOUR actions in THEIR countries that brings the refugees to US.

No, we can't handle them, it's about fucking time you take some responsibility for your own stupid actions, personal, business and governmental responsibility.

LOL, yeah, that will happen any day now, won't it?
We care deeply about israel as evidenced by the massive aid. We've been instructed to care until the second coming.
I do care about Israel, i think that Israeli actions in response to hundreds of rockets fired every week is actually weak, if, say, Ireland had done that, we would have bombed the living daylights out of Ireland.

And it's not a bad example either, not if you know the story.
 

myocardia

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2003
9,291
29
91
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Stupid fucking American TWATS.
What kind of moron would keep posting on an American site, filled mostly with Americans posting on it, when they felt this way about America? Oh, that's right, JohnOfSheffield.:laugh: BTW, a considerable amount of us feel exactly the same about England. Why did you think we left that horrible country?
 

seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
5,281
0
0
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
But BTW, that second coming, well, that only works if she can get g-spot orgasms, see, the clit is really REALLY sensitive when she has come, on the level where she will punch you in the face for sucking on it (was young, she broke my nose, i am not shitting you, she broke my nose).

So be careeful about that.. .

Wait, that's not the second coming you are talking about?
:laugh:
There are second comings, armageddon los bullshittos playing dueling banjos and the like, i tend to not give a fuck about your stupid arse beliefs and IF there is a god, i bet he doesn't either.
Me neither. Saw a tv preacher the other day go on and on about how his congregation should love israel. He used these exact words - "We should love israel until the second coming". Definitely used the word 'until'. My question was "Then what?". He wouldn't answer through the tv...

Probably not the best place for this observation. Your absolutist comments are what made me slip. Why are you yelling? OUR STICKS ARE YOUR THEIR ... Can't you go take your frustration out on some talibani mother fuckers?
 

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