If Americans voted only by issues your next President would be...

leper84

Senior member
Dec 29, 2011
989
29
86
Gary Johnson

iSideWithElectoralMap.png


http://www.isidewith.com/

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/07/19/157048377/web-quiz-tells-you-which-presidential-candidate-best-fits-your-worldview

http://www.examiner.com/article/libertarian-presidential-candidate-polls-ahead-of-romney-and-obama-on-issues

The most comprehensive poll of 887,000 Americans this year via the iSidewith website has found Libertarian Party Presidential nominee Gary Johnson easily beats Mitt Romney and Barack Obama for the 2012 General election.
......
If the election was held today based on what 887,000 Americans have already 'voted' via the iSidewith website, Gary Johnson would win 28 states, Barack Obama would win 16 states, Mitt Romney would win 4 states.

Soooo, seeing as we have a nice blend of right-wing chicken-hawks and absolute feverish liberals in P&N, how big of a flame suit do I need for posting this?
 

Avalon

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2001
7,571
178
106
Makes sense to me. Most Americans are somewhere in the middle.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
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So Mitt Romney can only get 2x as many States as Dr. Paul does and that's with Gary Johnson running. I'm kind of unhappy that Gary Johnson gets all of the credit for Dr. Paul's ideas though and I wish Dr. Paul had just ran as an independent.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
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Sounds like this is a self-selecting group of voters and not an accurate sample of Americans...
 

Abraxas

Golden Member
Oct 26, 2004
1,056
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Sounds like this is a self-selecting group of voters and not an accurate sample of Americans...

That is a lot of it, a lot more of it is the test itself is simplistic and not particularly nuanced, omitting vast numbers of important political topics and doesn't match related but slightly different answers to questions, such as "No" and "No and <insert additional restrictions here>".
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,471
9,692
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Gary Johnson

Both parties would pass a pork bill to buy votes.
The President would Veto it.
The media would go ape !@#$ declaring the end of the world.
He'd be a one term President.

I still want to see that.

The ONLY way to win is to stand on principle and draw a line in the sand.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
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Ummmm...Gary Johnson and Ron Paul have near identical stances on most issues.
Near identical stances on most issues doesn't cut it. That averages out to like 70%.

Gary Johnson said that prices could be stabilized by the Fed and adherents to the Austrian school have serious problems with that. I also don't like how he increased the prison budget as Gov of NM. I believe that he also favors the 14th Amendment more than Dr. Paul does. He's come out in support of the FairTax. He's also said that he would try to stop Israel from attacking Iran... and if that means putting pressure on them, then that's not a non-interventionist foreign policy. All of that said, Johnson and Dr. Paul are too different on the issues for me to completely support Johnson. I like him, I think he's a great person and he's definitely good compared to Rombama, but that's not good enough to me. If Dr. Paul endorses Johnson, then I may vote for Johnson. I really wish Dr. Rev. Baldwin was running again because he was the best 3rd Party candidate since Harry Browne and Dr. Paul would've already endorsed Rev. Dr. Baldwin by now.
 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,774
0
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Near identical stances on most issues doesn't cut it. That averages out to like 70%.

Gary Johnson said that prices could be stabilized by the Fed and adherents to the Austrian school have serious problems with that. I also don't like how he increased the prison budget as Gov of NM. I believe that he also favors the 14th Amendment more than Dr. Paul does. He's come out in support of the FairTax. He's also said that he would try to stop Israel from attacking Iran... and if that means putting pressure on them, then that's not a non-interventionist foreign policy. All of that said, Johnson and Dr. Paul are too different on the issues for me to completely support Johnson. I like him, I think he's a great person and he's definitely good compared to Rombama, but that's not good enough to me. If Dr. Paul endorses Johnson, then I may vote for Johnson. I really wish Dr. Rev. Baldwin was running again because he was the best 3rd Party candidate since Harry Browne and Dr. Paul would've already endorsed Rev. Dr. Baldwin by now.

A shockingly correct answer. Good for you Anarchist.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Near identical stances on most issues doesn't cut it. That averages out to like 70%.

Gary Johnson said that prices could be stabilized by the Fed and adherents to the Austrian school have serious problems with that. I also don't like how he increased the prison budget as Gov of NM. I believe that he also favors the 14th Amendment more than Dr. Paul does. He's come out in support of the FairTax. He's also said that he would try to stop Israel from attacking Iran... and if that means putting pressure on them, then that's not a non-interventionist foreign policy. All of that said, Johnson and Dr. Paul are too different on the issues for me to completely support Johnson. I like him, I think he's a great person and he's definitely good compared to Rombama, but that's not good enough to me. If Dr. Paul endorses Johnson, then I may vote for Johnson. I really wish Dr. Rev. Baldwin was running again because he was the best 3rd Party candidate since Harry Browne and Dr. Paul would've already endorsed Rev. Dr. Baldwin by now.
I voted for Harry Browne twice and thought the world of him, but Gary Johnson is twice the candidate. It's one thing to espouse libertarian philosophy, however elegantly; it's quite another to make it work, as did Johnson.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
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Near identical stances on most issues doesn't cut it. That averages out to like 70%.

I'm not a Gary Johnson supporter but.....

Gary Johnson said that prices could be stabilized by the Fed and adherents to the Austrian school have serious problems with that.

I agree that his view on the Fed is not a view that many in the Libertarian movement or those who adhere to a sound monetary police would endorse right away. However in Gary's defense his view (from reading his campaign site and interview responses) appears to stem from a practical political view. Which is that while ending the Federal Reserve is a worthy goal however this goal should be addressed at some later point instead as Gary believes that our current debt crisis is the more immediate threat that needs to be addressed first and foremost.

Thus limiting the Fed's role in the economy rather then completely eliminating it would be an easier political goal to achieve in the short-term when attempting to reach a consensus on how to deal with our massive debt crisis problem rather then just going for the Fed's throat which would be bound to run into a lot of stiff opposition even among some GOP members of the Senate and Congress.

I also don't like how he increased the prison budget as Gov of NM.

There's a lot of things in life I don't like but there are usually reasons behind why they occur. Can you provide any further details pertaining to why he raised the prison budget in New Mexico? What were the circumstances which prompted this increase? Right now you make it sounds as if it was an arbitrary response on his part. On another note he did also privatize half the prisons in New Mexico on top of advocating for the decriminalization of marijuana, balancing New Mexico's budget and leaving it with a surplus, along with cutting taxes and vetoing over 750 spending bills, etc

http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/record

I believe that he also favors the 14th Amendment more than Dr. Paul does.

This is probably the biggest difference between the two in which I support Ron versus Gary but I still am not seeing this as a major issue that would steer people away from Ron to Gary and vice versus considering the other polices they both support.

He's come out in support of the FairTax.

There is certainly reason and room to debate against his support of a FairTax versus Ron Paul's view that spending should instead be capped however both Gary and Ron both favor eliminating the IRS, eliminating federal income taxes, death taxes (inheritance tax) capital gains taxes, etc so there is room for agreement more so then division.

He's also said that he would try to stop Israel from attacking Iran...and if that means putting pressure on them, then that's not a non-interventionist foreign policy.

Citation please? I've yet to hear or read that Gary Johnson would intercede using military force to stop Israel from acting. Furthermore putting "pressure" is hardly being a interventionist as even Ron Paul would as he put it "put our diplomatic core to work rather then our military" when it comes to foreign policy matters.

All of that said, Johnson and Dr. Paul are too different on the issues for me to completely support Johnson. I like him, I think he's a great person and he's definitely good compared to Rombama, but that's not good enough to me. If Dr. Paul endorses Johnson, then I may vote for Johnson. I really wish Dr. Rev. Baldwin was running again because he was the best 3rd Party candidate since Harry Browne and Dr. Paul would've already endorsed Rev. Dr. Baldwin by now.

Still not seeing a major difference on topics that even Libertarians would disagree about and debate among themselves. If anything it just splitting hairs on a few issues (immigration and the Federal Reserve being the biggest differences) in which they are not 100% inline with each other as candidates but this still doesn't put them greatly apart where one person with Libertarian views would avoid supporting either Gary or Ron.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
37,109
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The civilized people side with Obama. All the unrefined states do not.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
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Citation please? I've yet to hear or read that Gary Johnson would intercede using military force to stop Israel from acting. Furthermore putting "pressure" is hardly being a interventionist as even Ron Paul would as he put it "put our diplomatic core to work rather then our military" when it comes to foreign policy matters.
Johnson's wikipedia page/bio says he would.:) It could very well just be diplomatic pressure.

On another note he did also privatize half the prisons in New Mexico on top of advocating for the decriminalization of marijuana, balancing New Mexico's budget and leaving it with a surplus, along with cutting taxes and vetoing over 750 spending bills, etc
Privitization of prisons isn't really the answer. Restitution is.
What were the circumstances which prompted this increase?
Prison budgets should never increase. Wikipedia said Johnson increased them, that's all I know about it.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
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There is a broader trend, though, that this is just one example of:

Trending liberal on social issues, trending conservative on taxes and spending.

Winning party: Libertarian.

Losing parties: Democratic, Republican
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
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Johnson's wikipedia page/bio says he would.:) It could very well just be diplomatic pressure.

Privitization of prisons isn't really the answer. Restitution is.Prison budgets should never increase. Wikipedia said Johnson increased them, that's all I know about it.

Man... is wikipedia your only source of information? "Wiki says it happened, but I'm not going to dig in further as to WHY it happened, I'm just going to assume the worst". You're being a tool Anarchist. I like Dr. Paul and I would love to see him get the Republican candidacy, but Gary Johnson is a little more based in realism and I believe he understands gradualism. Gradualism is something we don't quite use right or understand here in the West and it's something the East does very well.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
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Trending liberal on social issues, trending conservative on taxes and spending
For those who want to divide things into social issues and economics issues, there is actually 3rd dimension, which is foreign policy.:) An interventionist foreign policy distorts the market, so it's not predominantly a social issue. Amount of militarism is based on culture, so it's not predominantly an economic issue.

I don't think that things can be divided into foreign policy, social issues, or economic issues, because money is required to legislate anything... just my humble opinion though. To illustrate my point, there are actually very few Presidents who would line up on the pure "conservative" end of the nolan chart and just as few who would average on the left end of the Nolan chart. Polk and Jackson (and maybe Arthur and Grant) are the only two who would even come close to being at the pure "conservative" end. The majority would be at the bottom. More would be closer to the top than at the extreme left end. Eisenhower and Hoover (and very slightly possibly Nixon, Ford, and Bush 41) would probably be closest (and not very close) to the Nolan Chart's left end of any Presidents and even they were far from being pure "liberals".

That said, the classifications should be less centralization of govt power and more centralization of govt power.
 
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Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
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There is a broader trend, though, that this is just one example of:

Trending liberal on social issues, trending conservative on taxes and spending.

Winning party: Libertarian.

Losing parties: Democratic, Republican

In actual polls though, 2/3rds of Americans want higher taxes on those making 250k and more (that includes 53% of republicans).

Internet polls are highly unreliable and aren't representative of the general population. If they were, Ron Paul would be the GOP nominee right now, but we all know rabid ron paul fanboys rig internet polls.
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,408
10
0
If American's were smart they would vote with their money.

Corps pay Politicians bills, not the public. And they have more influence than public will ever have.

Your vote is worthless....
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
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In actual polls though, 2/3rds of Americans want higher taxes on those making 250k and more (that includes 53% of republicans).

Internet polls are highly unreliable and aren't representative of the general population. If they were, Ron Paul would be the GOP nominee right now, but we all know rabid ron paul fanboys rig internet polls.

Except this isn't exactly as simple as a regular poll and this has had over 1 million people so far. Show me another online poll that has that? none of them and from my professional experience(I QA online survey systems and their administration tools) these guys have put together a rather solid online survey. as good as something a company would actually pay money for to be ran on sample. hell we would LOVE to get 1m+ random sample users in the short time these fellas have. Even if just half of them are unique, 500k unique users opinions is worth a lot of money. Though they could do a much better job to restrict repeat takers.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
0
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Sounds like this is a self-selecting group of voters and not an accurate sample of Americans...

Exactly this. It's just like with the online "polls" which always show Ron Paul with a towering lead. Libertarians do well in self-selecting online polls. The demographic is males in their 20's and 30's who are tech savvy, and quite fanatical about their ideology, and hence highly motivated to participate in these online surveys.

Scientific polling reaches out to randomized voters. It doesn't invite whoever feels like it to participate. That isn't an accurate cross-section, not even close.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
Exactly this. It's just like with the online "polls" which always show Ron Paul with a towering lead. Libertarians do well in self-selecting online polls. The demographic is males in their 20's and 30's who are tech savvy, and quite fanatical about their ideology, and hence highly motivated to participate in these online surveys.

Scientific polling reaches out to randomized voters. It doesn't invite whoever feels like it to participate. That isn't an accurate cross-section, not even close.

Except you're silly and don't understand this isn't a "who do you like for president?" poll. Have you even taken the survey? answered it legitimately? I have been passing it out to probably over 100 people now and most are lining up with candidates they never knew they had so much in common with. I have not seen so many people ask me who the fuck Jill Stein was and I barely have a clue. Gary Johnson is pulling hard on this because he is actually in line with what most people(Americans) view of the world. Those with a warped false sense of reality are the ones who continue to support the system.
 
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