If AMD were to release a new hexcore chip what should its specs and die layout be?

[AtenRa]

There's a good reason for keeping FM1 and FM2 separate. The bigger chips need dual channel ram, which increases motherboard cost. The cat cores would stand no chance of competing with Atom in price.

I believe you mean AM1 vs FM2 and that Kaveri (SteamRoller FM2+)would have no chance in competing against ATOM in price not Cat cores like Kabini/Beema

 

[Blitzvogel]

There's a good reason for keeping FM1 and FM2 separate. The bigger chips need dual channel ram, which increases motherboard cost. The cat cores would stand no chance of competing with Atom in price.

For ultra-mobile applications using a Cat core, build the mobo with only a single channel then. Though honestly, the Cat cores would probably benefit from dual channel.

 

[Yuriman]

I believe you mean AM1 vs FM2 and that Kaveri (SteamRoller FM2+)would have no chance in competing against ATOM in price not Cat cores like Kabini/Beema

Yeah, typo.

 

[burninatortech4]

Yes, but they have effectively cancelled Carrizo on the desktop.

That really ticks me off. I bought into a 760k and an a88x with a upgrade path in mind. AMD abandons FM2+ after one generation? A Kaveri refresh isn't good enough. Looks like my next build is intel.

 

[cbn]

The "cTDP throttling" that seems to happen to Kaveri over 4.5 ghz is board-related and does not happen on the A88x-Pro or Crossblade Ranger.

Most other throttling is related to thermal margin, which means the chip isn't being cooled well-enough. Some of them just scream "delid me!" due to poor application of TIM under the IHS.

The CPU throttling I am referring to went beyond overclocked APUs. Even the A8-7600 had it. In fact, according to this review A8-7600 cpu cores downclocked to 2.4 Ghz during iGPU load from Furmark.

This is easily defeated in software. Also, I've never actually seen it happen in Linux, which is really interesting. In Windows, yes, it's an issue . . . until you run amdmsrtweaker. Then it isn't.

I wonder how well that software fix works with a processor like A8-7600 which only has a heatsink fan rated at 65 watts?

 

[AtenRa]

That really ticks me off. I bought into a 760k and an a88x with a upgrade path in mind. AMD abandons FM2+ after one generation? A Kaveri refresh isn't good enough. Looks like my next build is intel.

If your system is the one in your sig, then your next upgrade should be a new GPU.

 

[cbn]

Unfortunately, Kaveri on the desktop is just a very expensive product with several significant performance penalties.

I got my 7700k for $104 and my A88x-Pro for $53. Granted, not everyone is going to get a deal on their board like I did, but . . . it ain't that expensive. It certainly won't be when the 7650k comes out.

That is a really good deal, but the AM3+ processors go on sale as well.

Currently, the FX-8310 is $89.99 After rebate --> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2417172

And the FX-6300 has been on sale at $79.99 and $84.99 recently on Amazon. (Check price history at bottom of page here)

And then a person could always combined one of those processors with a sale priced video card. I've seen the R7 240 as low as $29.97 After rebate --> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2398683&highlight=

 

[AtenRa]

That is a really good deal, but the AM3+ processors go on sale as well.

Currently, the FX-8310 is $89.99 After rebate --> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2417172

And the FX-6300 has been on sale at $79.99 and $84.99 recently on Amazon. (Check price history at bottom of page here)

And then a person could always combined one of those processors with a sale priced video card. I've seen the R7 240 as low as $29.97 After rebate --> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2398683&highlight=

And you will have 50% or more power usage for the same GPU performance, not to mention you can go Micro-ATX or even mini-itx with the 7600.

 

[cbn]

Yes, but they have effectively cancelled Carrizo on the desktop. They could cease mobile Kaveri production (assuming they haven't already) and probably fill out that segment of their wafer supply with Carrizo, but that does not address desktop Kaveri production at all. It's not like they're going to crank out more 5350s.

If AMD could increase volume of AM3+ and AM1, I don't think they would even need Kaveri on Desktop.

Low end of AM3+ would cover the void left by the Kaveri top end (CPU-wise).
A revamped and possibly higher TDP AM1 + BGA Carrizo dual core (which is not so desirable for mobile) could cover the void left by Kaveri on the low end (CPU-wise).
R7 240/250 or better cards cover or exceed the void left by Kaveri desktop (GPU-wise). Although some might choose Nvidia or AM3+ chipset integrated graphics.

P.S. Regarding AM1, I really hope AMD improves that line-up. For whatever reason, it appears to suffer from a lot of down-binning. A good example is Sempron 2650 which is 25 watt dual core downclocked to 1.45 Ghz with a downclocked 400 Mhz iGPU as well. This when the reviews point to it having much lower power consumption compared to other AM1 CPUs.

 

[cbn]

not to mention you can go Micro-ATX or even mini-itx with the 7600.

AM3+ can go Micro ATX.

And one complaint I have had about FM2+ Mini-ITX has been price. (the boards have been expensive and limited to mostly high end models only)

However, with Carrizo I'd have to imagine Mini-ITX (although it will be BGA) will probably be less costly as the chip is a SOC.

So with AM3+ on Micro-ATX and Carrizo mostly likely being more affordable for Mini-ITX, I can't see a good reason for Kaveri desktop to exist.

 

[cbn]

And you will have 50% or more power usage for the same GPU performance

How is the power consumption difference being measured?

 

[cbn]

How about memory controller configuration for a Steamroller based hexcore?

Single changel DDR4, Dual channel DDR4, Dual channel DDR4?

I am thinking if the chip is going to be a "small die" with minimal iGPU (say 128 GCN stream processors max) then single channel DDR4 would be sufficient. This particularly if the single channel DDR4 memory controller saved die space over a dual channel DDR4 or dual channel DDR3?

P.S. Speaking of die size, take a look (in the lower right hand corner of the image below) at how large the Kaveri DDR3 PHY is compared to the Trinity DDR3 PHY scaled 28:32. I am thinking the reason the Kaveri DDR3 is about twice the size as the Trinity DDR3 is because of the extra GDDR5 functionality included in Kaveri.

With that pointed out I wonder how much die size for a single channel DDR4? (I am hoping the space allocated could be much smaller than what we see with the current Kaveri DDR3 PHY)

 

[Enigmoid]

Dual channel or bust. AMD's memory controller is not robust enough to support 3M on a single channel. Performance would definitely take a hit.

You can search around but IMO some tasks would be worse than kaveri with a 3M singlechannel (especially as the higher bandwidth is counterbalanced by the higher latency).

 

[DrMrLordX]

AM1 is a low-volume, low-demand segment. They are selling more Kaveri chips than they are AM1 Kabinis. There really is nothing better for them to do with that 28nm planar fab capacity than to just keep cranking out Kaveri, for now. Sure, they could tape out some replacements for Kaveri as you suggest, but that would take time and money that they don't have, for what, a sidegrade? That would not be in AMD's best interest.

And yeah, dual-channel or bust.

 

[cbn]

AM1 is a low-volume, low-demand segment. They are selling more Kaveri chips than they are AM1 Kabinis. There really is nothing better for them to do with that 28nm planar fab capacity than to just keep cranking out Kaveri, for now. Sure, they could tape out some replacements for Kaveri as you suggest, but that would take time and money that they don't have, for what, a sidegrade? That would not be in AMD's best interest.

AM1 doesn't have to replace the entire Kaveri line-up just the low end dual core Kaveri SKUs. The higher end of the Kaveri line-up is replaced by AM3+ processors like FX-6300 which AMD would increase in volume to compensate for the departure of Kaveri. This until a new hexcore FM2+ replacement is released.

Furthermore, AMD wouldn't have to tape out any new AM1 chips, they just need to stop down binning the existing chips and/or rearrange CPU/iGPU TDP distribution to get better cpu clockspeeds. (They might think also about increasing TDP another 5 watts for certain AM1 SKUs)

P.S. Regarding the down binning and the high pricing on AM1, part of me wonders if a good deal of that is a result of preventing conflicts with Kaveri's lower end? Certainly my opinion is that Kaveri on desktop overlaps with AM3+, AM1 and low end dGPU....and removing Kaveri on desktop would most likely help AMD price those other lines better.

 

[cbn]

New article about this topic on Sweclockers today:

"AMD Summit Ridge and Bristol Ridge share the socket FM3"

http://www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/19964-amd-summit-ridge-och-bristol-ridge-samsas-om-sockel-fm3

Google translated to English:

https://translate.google.com/transl...bristol-ridge-samsas-om-sockel-fm3&edit-text=

Some highlights:

The end of 2016 marks not only the beginning of the long awaited Zen, but also the end of the sockets FM2 + and aging AM3 +. These are replaced by socket FM3, which thus could house both performance-oriented Summit Ridge and the more budget-friendly Bristol Ridge with integrated graphics.
[...]
Code:

Specifications: Summit Ridge and Bristol Ridge

AMD Summit Ridge AMD Bristol Ridge
Segments "Performance" "Mainstream"
Technology 14 nm 28 nm
Architecture Zen Excavator
Cores Up to 8 Up to 4
L3 cache Yes (unknown nr MB) -
Graphics Architecture - Next gen. GCN
Stream Processors - Up to 512 pcs.
Memory Support DDR4 DDR4
PCI Express 3.0 Yes Yes (nr channels unknown for both)
TDP Up to 95 W Up to 95 W
Socket FM3 FM3
Southbridge Promontory Promontory
Launch Window Q3 2016 Q3 2016

[...]

The next detail is that both processors share the completely unknown southbridge Promontory, which will be in charge of controlling for everything from storage to USB connections.

Interestingly, according to previous data AMD partnered with ASMedia for the development of future chipsets.

According the above (rumor) AMD is developing a new desktop die based on construction cores, but it will not be a hexcore. Instead it will be 28nm quad excavator cores with 512sp iGPU and DDR4 for a socket called FM3. This along with an octocore Zen on 14nm, also for FM3.

 

[Lorne]

So there sticking with the module core?, Thought it was only going to be a nitch test thing.
So there just going to squeeze the handle again on this farce idea, Except this time they are sure to blow out the candle.

 

[cbn]

So there sticking with the module core?, Thought it was only going to be a nitch test thing.
So there just going to squeeze the handle again on this farce idea, Except this time they are sure to blow out the candle.

If AMD were going to launch Excavator quad core on 28nm alongside Zen on 14nm, I have to wonder what that says about the single thread of Zen?

P.S. I am not against the use of construction core for a future APU at this point, but I would much rather see it be a hexcore with small iGPU. And ideally this hexcore could work with a single DDR4 3200 stick.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I think AMD's decision to continue producing 28nm planar chips (or 28nm planar + HDL chips, if that's in fact what Bristol Ridge uses) says a lot about their commitment to continue receiving wafers from GF's 28nm fabs. I think what we are seeing is that, post Summit Ridge, AMD will transition away from 28nm entirely, and we'll see 2M/2C (however it works) Zen-based APUs. They'll retire Excavator and be done with it.

Btw, you can pretty much put a fork in the idea of hexcore Steamroller or Excavator on FM2+. With Godavari, Bristol Ridge, and Summit Ridge placed on the roadmap, there's no place for those chips. AMD has punted on 3M and 4M parts until Summit Ridge. It's a done deal. AM3+ is officially dead, and FM2+ is probably going to kick the bucket in 2016 to make way for FM3.

 

[cbn]

Regarding the memory controller configuration, I am wondering about the chip having both dual channel DDR3 and dual channel DDR4 so it is compatible with both FM2+ and FM3?

It would increase die size though.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Did DDR2/DDR3 compatibility for K10.5 chips increase die sizes?