If able to sell off current Z68+2500k, worth it upgrading to Ivy (gaming purposes)?

Freddy1765

Senior member
May 3, 2011
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My dad mentioned how his computer is dying on him, so I offered to build him one with spare parts I've got lying around. The only thing I'm missing is a mobo and CPU, which got me thinking; if I were to sell my Z68 and 2500k to him and spend the money to offset an upgrade to Z87+4670k, would it be worth the hassle? I've heard conflicting things about Haswell vs Sandy, some saying it's a minor difference in gaming performance clock for clock, while Haswell doesn't OC as well either, and others seem to think it is a worthwhile upgrade.

I'm in the process of researching for a monitor (1440p) and GPU (probably a 290) upgrade as well, so this would basically end up being a total update of the 'vital' components (GPU, mobo, CPU). My original plan was to wait for Broadwell before upgrading the platform, but if the performance delta between Haswell and Broadwell is the same as between SB -> IB -> HW, that really doesn't compel me to wait around for it.

I guess it basically comes down to 'what can I expect of Broadwell performance', which is all speculation, but still, I was hoping for some general insight as well :p
Thanks!
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
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We have no idea what to expect of Broadwell; it's similar to Ivy Bridge in that most of the interesting improvements are in the iGPU, and Intel are using a new manufacturing process which may be more tuned towards mobile devices rather than getting higher clocks at the high end. We just don't know until people start getting their hands on it and overclocking, and see what it can hit. But from what I've seen, upgrading to a Haswell i5 just isn't a noticeable improvement.

As for your Dad- I wouldn't give him used parts which have had a fairly high overclock on them! It may be entirely stable now, but it will degrade over time- especially if your Dad is anything like my Dad, and keeps his computers for the best part of a decade.

I would just pick up some new parts for him. He doesn't need overclocking parts, so a non-K Haswell i5 and a H-series motherboard would be fine.

What GPU are you giving him? Because you could always go with the integrated graphics and fit it all into a smaller case.
 

Freddy1765

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May 3, 2011
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My dad really has no need of a discrete GPU, he'd be just fine with the HDxxxx on the CPU :p He could probably make due with a Haswell i3, he only uses the computer for browsing, e-mails and MS Office. Perhaps it would be better finding a cheap bundle for him somewhere.

My current parts would certainly not offer him anything beyond what he would get from a cheap dual core, it just seemed like a neat solution, but you have a very good point with the longevity of the components! He is not one to replace computers (or anything for that matter!) before it breaks :)
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
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It seems these days all the action is on the GPU front. What a shame!

There is CPU action, but it's not in the high end desktop! It's all about power efficiency; putting Intel cores into smaller and smaller devices, or fitting more and more cores into a high end server. Until properly multithreaded game engines become the standard and Intel sees fit to let us have the fun 12 core monsters, we're not going to see any changes.
 

Freddy1765

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May 3, 2011
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Bad news for people like me always looking for an excuse to upgrade their kit! Oh well, this way I can hold onto my 2500k and spend moar money on GPU grunt :)
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
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Bad news for people like me always looking for an excuse to upgrade their kit! Oh well, this way I can hold onto my 2500k and spend moar money on GPU grunt :)

Interesting question. I've asked it several times since I built my 2600K system in July, 2011. Watched the fascination with de-lidding the Ivy Bridge, and after all the trouble I went to in 2007 with case-mods and over-clocking, experimenting with different thermal pastes and ducts -- I wasn't eager to go through all that.

Personally, I'm more inclined to replace HDDs with top-end SSDs -- strategic investments. And that inclination dovetails with a budget to begin adding "mobile devices" a little at a time.

If I don't "go anywhere" -- if I only need a desktop for the moment -- my only minor bottleneck is my ISRT configuration in comparison to a Samsung EVO 840.

I think we're all in tech-limbo on these issues. If you have a lot of money, it might not seem to matter. But you were obviously debating whether to sell your own Z68 system -- so likely, you don't!
 

Freddy1765

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May 3, 2011
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Haha, no, as a student I can't claim to have lots of money, which is why I obsess over these decisions for so long before finally making a choice :p
 

nwo

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Jun 21, 2005
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As much as I love my ivy bridge 3570k, I just don't think it would be worth the upgrade from a 2500k. And I definitely do not think that a Haswell i5 is worth the extra $50 (if you can get 3570k at micro center for $150).

I have had all three i5s at my disposal, Ivy bridge is by far my favorite since you get the best of both worlds... doesn't run super hot and overclocks pretty well. Haswell has the performance but also brings a lot of heat, which would put it in last place for me. Sandy would be second since it doesn't run super hot and arguably has the most OC potential which makes up for it being ~10% slower than Haswell at the same clock speed.
 

Lil Frier

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Oct 3, 2013
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Haha, no, as a student I can't claim to have lots of money, which is why I obsess over these decisions for so long before finally making a choice :p

Hey, I'm right with you there. I don't know what I'll have to spend on PC upgrades, but I am about ready to get a new CPU and board. My solution is maybe selling all of my original stuff to my cousin to fund that upgrade (as he's dying to replace his laptop, but cannot afford a proper build right now). I'll probably sell him the whole thing for $200-300 and go with an i5 or Kaveri (depending both on the performance/price of Kaveri and my willingness to wait for Kaveri to be released).

As much as I love my ivy bridge 3570k, I just don't think it would be worth the upgrade from a 2500k. And I definitely do not think that a Haswell i5 is worth the extra $50 (if you can get 3570k at micro center for $150).

I have had all three i5s at my disposal, Ivy bridge is by far my favorite since you get the best of both worlds... doesn't run super hot and overclocks pretty well. Haswell has the performance but also brings a lot of heat, which would put it in last place for me. Sandy would be second since it doesn't run super hot and arguably has the most OC potential which makes up for it being ~10% slower than Haswell at the same clock speed.

This is interesting, as I might be looking at an i5 in the near-future. Haswell sits about $20 above Ivy Bridge on Newegg, I think, and if Ivy is really right up there with Haswell in performance, while running cooler, maybe I should consider a 3570K over a 4670K...
 
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nwo

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This is interesting, as I might be looking at an i5 in the near-future. Haswell sits about $20 above Ivy Bridge on Newegg, I think, and if Ivy is really right up there with Haswell in performance, while running cooler, maybe I should consider a 3570K over a 4670K...

The only reason why I would recommend going Haswell is because 1155 socket is basically dead so you would never be able to go any higher than Ivy. If you went with Haswell, who knows whether or not you would be able to upgrade to something worthwhile down the line, but at least there is a possibility.
 

Revolution 11

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Jun 2, 2011
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My advice to you, OP, is to ignore thinking about sockets and upgrading. Just focus on a Intel quad-core CPU (your dad could make a dual-core viable but it is possible to get Sandy and Ivy quads for a little more than a Haswell i3).

The cheapest Intel quad-core CPU and motherboard combo is what you should get. Keep your 2500K for yourself. There is a very small difference between a Sandy 2500K and a Haswell 4670K for a non-gamer casual user.

Broadwell is unknown at this time but judging by past performance, it won't be a shocker. Skylake might be worth it but I think even then the performance increase will be minor. It will be worth getting for DDR4 support, PCI-Express support, and other updated chipset goodies. Chipset upgrades is the real reason why anyone would get Haswell over Ivy for gaming. That is the real difference between Sandy Bridge and Haswell. Better convenience, better I/O, more USB3 ports, etc.
 
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krumme

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Oct 9, 2009
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Haha, no, as a student I can't claim to have lots of money, which is why I obsess over these decisions for so long before finally making a choice :p

Man thats why its called a Hobby :) it has nothing to do with beeing a student. For the same decicion in my job where i will prioritize at most 30 seconds- and often in the order of 2 sec- i often use 80 hours when its tech for my hobby.
Thats the whole purpose.
It doesnt matter if you have little or lots of money. Actually low financial restraints helps creativety and satisfaction when a goal is reached and you have saved 5usd using 10 hours work.

As for your father. unfortunately its very simple. He dont need your old gear. Its your upgrade itching. I gave one of the kids the hw instead of myself as an upgrade for my ib. It was funny researching but at the installation day i didnt have time and didnt bother.
For desktop its more or less the same performance. But you know it already ;)
 
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Freddy1765

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May 3, 2011
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Freddy! Mah Man! I wish I'd had your wisdom when I was a student!

More expensive PC = less money for beer

I'm fortunately in a position where it isn't necessarily a choice between one (beer) and the other (hardware). As a student in Denmark, university education is not only completely free of charge, the government subsidizes all students with a monthly grant for the entirety of their education :whiste: .. Gotta love social liberalism, at least as long as one does not pay the taxes to fund it :biggrin:

Man thats why its called a Hobby it has nothing to do with beeing a student. For the same decicion in my job where i will prioritize at most 30 seconds- and often in the order of 2 sec- i often use 80 hours when its tech for my hobby.
Thats the whole purpose.
It doesnt matter if you have little or lots of money. Actually low financial restraints helps creativety and satisfaction when a goal is reached and you have saved 5usd using 10 hours work.

I completely agree with that statement :p Researching hardware I *might* upgrade to is really half the fun, and being on a budget makes it all the more exciting since I'm acutely aware it's not something that's possible more than, say, once a year.

Thank you all for your inputs, I'm now convinced that 1) my current CPU and board will last well into 2014, 2) my dad is better off with a current-gen dual core bundle, and, most importantly, 3) If push comes to shove, never sacrifice beer for hardware.. or is it the other way around? :$

Merry X-Mas all 'round :)
 

Techhog

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Sep 11, 2013
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My dad really has no need of a discrete GPU, he'd be just fine with the HDxxxx on the CPU :p He could probably make due with a Haswell i3, he only uses the computer for browsing, e-mails and MS Office. Perhaps it would be better finding a cheap bundle for him somewhere.

My current parts would certainly not offer him anything beyond what he would get from a cheap dual core, it just seemed like a neat solution, but you have a very good point with the longevity of the components! He is not one to replace computers (or anything for that matter!) before it breaks :)

I'd go even lower. Haswell Pentium.
 

nwo

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Jun 21, 2005
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Perhaps it would be better finding a cheap bundle for him somewhere.

Micro Center has the best deals on CPU/mobo bundles. If you are lucky enough to have one nearby, you should definitely go that route.
 

Cerb

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Aug 26, 2000
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My advice to you, OP, is to ignore thinking about sockets and upgrading. Just focus on a Intel quad-core CPU (your dad could make a dual-core viable but it is possible to get Sandy and Ivy quads for a little more than a Haswell i3).
With no dGPU, I wouldn't get sandy or Ivy, unless it was a much better deal than saving $20 or $30. Up through Ivy, Intel's IGP (mainly the drivers, as Linux was typically unaffected) under Windows would have inconsistent performance, or other odd issues. Maybe it wouldn't be able to set the right res for a monitor. Maybe it didn't want to do right with HDMI with some TV. Maybe it would never remember the old display settings after hot-plugging a display in (unfixable notebook problem). Maybe it would be stuttery in some program, where a low-end dGPU, or AMD system, was fine. Business notebooks weren't commonly equipped with Geforces or Radeons for nothing :).

Needing to add a GPU that was no more powerful than the IGP was not an every day occurrence in desktops, but not something I found too rare, either. I've also noticed regular(ish) users positively commenting on AMD APU boxes, despite the CPU being slower, because they felt especially responsive and smooth in PowerPoint, AutoCAD, Illustrator, Vegas, or whatever else, due to the IGPU (not that they knew that was why). I have been actively looking for such problems with the Haswell boxes I've been setting up and deploying, and found nothing bad at all. They just work, and seem to work very well. IME, they've finally reached approximate quality parity with Geforces and Radeons. So, I would spend the typical small premium for the latest from Intel.

That said, for a regular web/office user, a quad APU, if significantly cheaper, would do just fine, as well. Without some kind of way to load up the CPU with many light threads, or a few heavy threads, the differences in recent CPU generations have been almost nil, and while a typical user might notice smoother graphics, they won't notice the performance difference between an Richland, Sandy, or Ivy anything, unless you compare against the slow dual-cores (which still might be fast nough, for patient non-multitaskers).
 

Freddy1765

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May 3, 2011
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So the iGPU of, for instance, a Pentium G3420 would be great for this kind of machine that will really only be used for emails, browsing, using MS Office and watching the occasional movie?
I feel more comfortable setting my dad up with Intel rather than AMD, and I don't expect the price differences to be at all significant on this kind of budget.
 

Sunburn74

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Oct 5, 2009
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I don't understand why you don't want to use your current parts for your dad's PC? If they are good enough for you, why aren't they good enough for him? Sure there's a bit of an overclock on it, but just down-clock the chip back to stock and it should still run for years without issue. Your dad doesn't sound like a power user anyway and if there is a component issue (chip or board), but the time it occurs it'll be a relatively cheap fix.
 
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krumme

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Oct 9, 2009
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So the iGPU of, for instance, a Pentium G3420 would be great for this kind of machine that will really only be used for emails, browsing, using MS Office and watching the occasional movie?
I feel more comfortable setting my dad up with Intel rather than AMD, and I don't expect the price differences to be at all significant on this kind of budget.

Yes. Good choice imho.
 

Freddy1765

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May 3, 2011
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I don't understand why you don't want to use your current parts for your dad's PC? If they are good enough for you, why aren't they good enough for him? Sure there's a bit of an overclock on it, but just down-clock the chip back to stock and it should still run for years without issue. Your dad doesn't sound like a power user anyway and if there is a component issue (chip or board), but the time it occurs it'll be a relatively cheap fix.

Well, as a few respondents to this thread pointed out, the benefits of HW over SB in terms of gaming performance are negligible, which means I won't see much of a benefit on a relatively expensive upgrade. Added to that is the fact that a HW dual core and micro-ATX motherboard are going to run my dad in the order of €100, which is probably less than I could sell my own kit for anyway, and which will suit his needs perfectly (low power consumption, compact form factor).
In the end it there don't appear to be any benefits to this, for neither him nor me.