IEM with the clarity of a balanced armature but the bass of a dynamic?

[fuzzybabybunny]

I tried my friend's Audio Technica ATH-IM02 and was blown away by the detail, clarity, sound isolation, and "in-my-head"-ness of the music coming from the dual Balanced Armature drivers. Listening to vocals was amazing and being able to pick out all the different instruments was fun. Very little was "muddy" about them.

But I felt that the bass was lacking. A lot. Low, smooth, rumbling bass was pretty much completely absent.

From this site it appears that BA drivers simply don't have very good bass response because they don't actually displace air to create sound. A Dynamic Driver has better bass response but they simply aren't as detailed as BA drivers, the latter being tuned to sound good in a specific frequency range.

Most of my music listening is just going to be streaming from my phone in high quality.

Is there a pair of IEMs out there that combine the detail, clarity, and isolation of BA drivers while also having the nice smooth bass of dynamic drivers?

 

[crashtech]

Unless the sound is transmitted directly into one's skull, air must be moved. The balanced armature is connected to a diaphragm which vibrates and thence displaces air molecules.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Unless the sound is transmitted directly into one's skull, air must be moved. The balanced armature is connected to a diaphragm which vibrates and thence displaces air molecules.

What the article meant is that the BA design is akin to a sealed speaker box. The Dynamic Driver design uses an air port, akin to a ported speaker box. So BA is tighter, more accurate, but less bassy.

http://www.salmanashrafny.com/2011/03/balanced-armature-vs-dynamic-driver.html

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

May have found a winner:

FLC8

http://theheadphonelist.com/headphone_review/flc-technology-flc8/

Dual BA drivers and a single Dynamic Driver for the bass. Detachable cords. 36 different sound settings. $350.

The other one I'm considering is the DUNU DN-2000

http://theheadphonelist.com/headphone_review/dunu-dn-2000/

Dual BA drivers and a single Dynamic Driver for the bass. No detachable cord though (big issue for me). But treble that could be too bright. $280.

 

[MrSquished]

the Dunu DN-2000J is the best. Thought I was a basshead - these things are not known as basshead phones but yet, they are amazing. Sub-Bass that is so fast and deep and lush - it's amazing.

Check out this review by a mainstay at head-fi.org reviews for IEM's:

http://www.head-fi.org/products/dunu-dn-2000j/reviews/13243

 

[Deders]

Unless the sound is transmitted directly into one's skull, air must be moved. The balanced armature is connected to a diaphragm which vibrates and thence displaces air molecules.

A lot of earbuds with silicon tips do transmit bass directly to the skull using vibrations. If you take the tips off you get none of the bass.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

the Dunu DN-2000J is the best. Thought I was a basshead - these things are not known as basshead phones but yet, they are amazing. Sub-Bass that is so fast and deep and lush - it's amazing.

Check out this review by a mainstay at head-fi.org reviews for IEM's:

http://www.head-fi.org/products/dunu-dn-2000j/reviews/13243

Guhhh I really wish they made it with a replaceable cord. The cord has been the weak point out of every single headphone I've had in the past, often the single cause of needing to chuck an otherwise working pair of headphones.

 

[MrSquished]

Guhhh I really wish they made it with a replaceable cord. The cord has been the weak point out of every single headphone I've had in the past, often the single cause of needing to chuck an otherwise working pair of headphones.

the next gen of Dunu's will have replaceable cords. I almost didn't get the DN-2000J's because of that but reviews of the build quality were so solid I decided to go for it. they are absolutely sublime to listen to.

 

[MrSquished]

dunno how long you'd have to wait but here are the next gen dunu's

http://www.head-fi.org/t/780630/dun...e-22nd-beijing-international-hi-fi-exhibition

 

[MrSquished]

this may convince you about the D2KJ's - it matches up with AKG's $1,000 IEM toe to toe

http://www.head-fi.org/t/755301/dunu-dn-2000j-more-than-evolution/705#post_11705938

 

[darkswordsman17]

Balanced armature can provide tons of bass, it just depends on the setup. Even then some people prefer dynamic although often their reasoning is a bit specious.

Keep in mind that getting a proper seal is very important with IEMs so you'll need to find tips that seal and are comfortable for you. Its easy to think you have a proper seal but not really, and bass is generally impacted the most.

I found that "olives" seem to work best for me. I got some that aren't the real olives but similar with some cheap JVC (Marshmallows) earbuds/IEMs and they've fit better than all the other tips I've used (silicon, comply, etc), and do an excellent job of providing a seal.

Another thing to find out is the output impedance of what you're listening out of and the impedance curve of the headphones you're using as that can impact the bass quite a bit as well.

Oh and also the "in your head" aspect is also pretty variable and IEMs don't have to sound so confined, although it seems that you like that (although you might not if you hear ones that sound more open/spacious, which does not necessarily mean you lose detail).

this may convince you about the D2KJ's - it matches up with AKG's $1,000 IEM toe to toe

http://www.head-fi.org/t/755301/dunu-dn-2000j-more-than-evolution/705#post_11705938

Be really careful with feedback on Head-Fi. Lots of new stuff is the best thing ever and competes with various megabuck stuff when it comes out. That's not to say they might not be that good, but comparisons like that are generally meaningless. Plenty of high end stuff actually is pretty overrated or not consistent (there's some brands where there seems to be significant variance between individual versions).

Even measurements you need to take with a grain of salt (make sure you're comparing headphones measured on the same setups that used the same settings when measuring). That's why Tyll/InnerFidelity have been such a big help is he's pretty transparent about that stuff and aims for consistency.

IIRC those AKG had really mixed feedback even when they came out.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

the next gen of Dunu's will have replaceable cords. I almost didn't get the DN-2000J's because of that but reviews of the build quality were so solid I decided to go for it. they are absolutely sublime to listen to.

Ah, sweet. I might wait for them then.

For me, it doesn't matter how sweet a pair of IEMs are. If they're expensive, which $350 certainly is, and don't have a replaceable cord which in my experience gets broken often, it's too much of a risk to have. I simply can't afford to spend $350 and possibly have a break in the line a year or two later. Hell, even five years later. The only reason I want to have an expensive pair go dead is if I just flat-out lose the entire thing.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Balanced armature can provide tons of bass, it just depends on the setup. Even then some people prefer dynamic although often their reasoning is a bit specious.

Keep in mind that getting a proper seal is very important with IEMs so you'll need to find tips that seal and are comfortable for you. Its easy to think you have a proper seal but not really, and bass is generally impacted the most.

I found that "olives" seem to work best for me. I got some that aren't the real olives but similar with some cheap JVC (Marshmallows) earbuds/IEMs and they've fit better than all the other tips I've used (silicon, comply, etc), and do an excellent job of providing a seal.

Another thing to find out is the output impedance of what you're listening out of and the impedance curve of the headphones you're using as that can impact the bass quite a bit as well.

Oh and also the "in your head" aspect is also pretty variable and IEMs don't have to sound so confined, although it seems that you like that (although you might not if you hear ones that sound more open/spacious, which does not necessarily mean you lose detail).



Be really careful with feedback on Head-Fi. Lots of new stuff is the best thing ever and competes with various megabuck stuff when it comes out. That's not to say they might not be that good, but comparisons like that are generally meaningless. Plenty of high end stuff actually is pretty overrated or not consistent (there's some brands where there seems to be significant variance between individual versions).

Even measurements you need to take with a grain of salt (make sure you're comparing headphones measured on the same setups that used the same settings when measuring). That's why Tyll/InnerFidelity have been such a big help is he's pretty transparent about that stuff and aims for consistency.

IIRC those AKG had really mixed feedback even when they came out.

The only BAs with tons of bass are generally really expensive (more than $350) with more than three armatures, right?

 

[MrSquished]

I have a very good set of triple.fi 10 pro's on sale for $200. They are known for amazing bass and nice treble.

 

[MrSquished]

The only BAs with tons of bass are generally really expensive (more than $350) with more than three armatures, right?

I wouldn't say that is a rule at all. there are numerous instances where an IEM with less drivers outplays one with more drivers. all depends on how well they are tuned.

 

[MrSquished]

those FLC8 look very interesting. Dunu's just seem to have more bang for buck value at this point. Not sure when those new Dunu's are coming out but most likely 2016 so you have to wait a bit for reviews and all that.

comply tips generally always get the best seal but they also tend to make the sound signature a bit darker overall. also you need to change them with new pairs unlike silicone tips. with the DUNU D2KJ's the general consensus is the treble is brighter with silicone tips and bassier with complys. I use both types of tips with those - found a couple sets of silicone tips that give me a nice seal, and the complys of course always do.

 

[darkswordsman17]

The only BAs with tons of bass are generally really expensive (more than $350) with more than three armatures, right?

I wouldn't say there's any real rule for that. Pretty sure the old Monster Turbines had single balanced armature drivers but they were pretty basshead cans. It's about tuning more than anything. Certainly when it comes to bass and BA drivers more should enable higher sound level, but it's a matter of other factors (volume for instance). But seal is really important and so you need to be sure you're getting good seal. It could be possible they just plain won't fit well either, be it the tips or the whole earphone itself. Some need deep insertion (the Etymotic ER4) and others are shallow.

You might even look into custom IEMs if you like IEMs (I would say to try a bunch of universal ones if you can first so you can find the right sound signature for you). Maybe try to make it to one of the Head-Fi events (you just missed out on Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, but there's always new events and even just local gatherings all over the place where you could possibly try out different headphones).

You could also get just tips that are custom fit acrylic/silicone. I believe Westone does that but I'm guessing most companies that make full customs could.

You can even get universal IEMs made into customs, so if you find a universal you like the sound of you could have them put in a custom shell.

those FLC8 look very interesting. Dunu's just seem to have more bang for buck value at this point. Not sure when those new Dunu's are coming out but most likely 2016 so you have to wait a bit for reviews and all that.

comply tips generally always get the best seal but they also tend to make the sound signature a bit darker overall. also you need to change them with new pairs unlike silicone tips. with the DUNU D2KJ's the general consensus is the treble is brighter with silicone tips and bassier with complys. I use both types of tips with those - found a couple sets of silicone tips that give me a nice seal, and the complys of course always do.

Have you tried "olives"? In my experience they're a lot better than Complys. The complys are just too soft and they tear into pieces. Plus they gunk up with ear wax and turn nasty quite quickly. Olives are more dense foam, they're compliant but not overly so they provide a good seal and they can be cleaned and will hold up. I've had mine for several years. They were also actually more comfortable than Complys for me as well (as the complys start to fray and then it rubs against your skin, the olives stay smooth).

I've also seen people make all sorts of hybrid tips (someone combine Complys or olives with dual or triple flanged silicone, apparently it worked well for them?) as well.

 

[MrSquished]

I wouldn't say there's any real rule for that. Pretty sure the old Monster Turbines had single balanced armature drivers but they were pretty basshead cans. It's about tuning more than anything. Certainly when it comes to bass and BA drivers more should enable higher sound level, but it's a matter of other factors (volume for instance). But seal is really important and so you need to be sure you're getting good seal. It could be possible they just plain won't fit well either, be it the tips or the whole earphone itself. Some need deep insertion (the Etymotic ER4) and others are shallow.

You might even look into custom IEMs if you like IEMs (I would say to try a bunch of universal ones if you can first so you can find the right sound signature for you). Maybe try to make it to one of the Head-Fi events (you just missed out on Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, but there's always new events and even just local gatherings all over the place where you could possibly try out different headphones).

You could also get just tips that are custom fit acrylic/silicone. I believe Westone does that but I'm guessing most companies that make full customs could.

You can even get universal IEMs made into customs, so if you find a universal you like the sound of you could have them put in a custom shell.



Have you tried "olives"? In my experience they're a lot better than Complys. The complys are just too soft and they tear into pieces. Plus they gunk up with ear wax and turn nasty quite quickly. Olives are more dense foam, they're compliant but not overly so they provide a good seal and they can be cleaned and will hold up. I've had mine for several years. They were also actually more comfortable than Complys for me as well (as the complys start to fray and then it rubs against your skin, the olives stay smooth).

I've also seen people make all sorts of hybrid tips (someone combine Complys or olives with dual or triple flanged silicone, apparently it worked well for them?) as well.

I've heard of the olives - they are 20 bucks on Amazon. How long do they last?

 

[Aristotelian]

I went with custom IEMs years ago (UE 10 Pro Customs) and will never go back to non-custom. For me, there was a world of difference, all the way from the obvious comfort and noise isolation, to the clarity of the musical experience. I got those because the sound was fairly neutral - not packed with bass boosting properties etc., so ymmv, but if you're in the market for IEMs I couldn't recommend anything else.

 

[MongGrel]

$350 for an IEM is out of my league.

Even when I could afford it.

Have a set of Brainwaves M2's and TTPods I like.

http://www.amazon.com/Brainwavz-BWA...=1445509942&sr=1-3&keywords=brainwavz+earbuds

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00L510RC4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

 

[darkswordsman17]

I've heard of the olives - they are 20 bucks on Amazon. How long do they last?

I can't speak for the real Shure versions, but the ones I got with my JVC Marshmallows have lasted for years (granted not daily use, but still quite a lot) and are still in excellent shape (and you can clean the outer part). I think I got 2-3 pairs with them and only paid like $20 for all. Not sure if they still make them or not.

I went with custom IEMs years ago (UE 10 Pro Customs) and will never go back to non-custom. For me, there was a world of difference, all the way from the obvious comfort and noise isolation, to the clarity of the musical experience. I got those because the sound was fairly neutral - not packed with bass boosting properties etc., so ymmv, but if you're in the market for IEMs I couldn't recommend anything else.

Yeah customs are the way to go, although you tend to want to have a good idea that they'd offer what you're looking for sound signature wise. I think you can get several very decent/good ones for less than $400 (although you'll have to add in the cost of shipping and ear impressions), and plenty going higher than that.

 

[MrSquished]

fuzzy baby bunny did you ever pick up a set of IEM's? I picked up the FLC8S's as well and they are exactly what you are looking for.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

fuzzy baby bunny did you ever pick up a set of IEM's? I picked up the FLC8S's as well and they are exactly what you are looking for.

Amazing. How do you like them?

I decided to wait for the Dunus that people were talking about... And promptly forgot about headphones altogether, lol. Taxes are due, I have some other expenses (just bought a car and getting into paramotoring), got invited to an overseas wedding, yadda yadda.

 

[MrSquished]

Amazing. How do you like them?

I decided to wait for the Dunus that people were talking about... And promptly forgot about headphones altogether, lol. Taxes are due, I have some other expenses (just bought a car and getting into paramotoring), got invited to an overseas wedding, yadda yadda.

the tuning options are cool. sub-bass, bass and mids/highs all get 3 choices - High amount - Medium Amount - Low amount.

i get amazing clarity and detail along with some real nice bass.

i use the Red filter for sub-bass which means high sub-bass
i use the Gray filter for bass which means average bass
i use the Green nozzle for mids/highs which means most amount of detail in mids/highs.


they sound quite similar to the Dunu 2KJ's with that configuration but with fuller mids. sometimes i can't pick a winner when i A/B them.

a silver cable is coming out for the FLC8S's soon as well.

only issue i have is the stock cable is a little short for at home use. it's fine for portable use with your phone in your pocket, etc..

highly recommended.

 

[JAG87]

Heard the Dunu D2K (non J) over the weekend and I was really impressed. They are not quite perfect, but for the price they are very hard to beat.