Ideal Windows domain setup (user profiles)?

[dawks]

We have Windows XP SP3 clients with a Windows Server 2003 R2 domain controller and fileserver. Right now we're using roaming profiles, mostly for ease of backup, since all the files are 'supposed' to be copied to the server on log off. This isn't working well for us with random file corruption and very long log offs (from 1 minute to 5-6 hours for users on our 1mbit WLAN).

What is a better solution? Folder redirects to shares on a server? What can we do about 200-800meg Email files? Store them locally? Whats a way to keep everything backed up (free).

Thanks.

 

[Nothinman]

If you're really using a 1Mb WLAN then you won't ever find a solution that your users are actually happy with IMO.

 

[RebateMonger]

For email the best way to have backups is to use an IMAP- or Exchange-based mailserver that stores the mail database on the server where it can be backed up.

The best way to ensure synchronized data files is probably to use SharePoint (free on every recent Windows server) to access and manage the data files. Using folder redirection for all their "My Documents" across a non-local-network is going to be fairly slow. If you want to do that, be sure to use the Server 2003 R2 function that bans copying .MP3 and other non-business files.

If you need backups of local PCs, then you should probably look at backup software.

 

[TheKub]

Roaming profiles... *shudder*....

 

[dawks]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
For email the best way to have backups is to use an IMAP- or Exchange-based mailserver that stores the mail database on the server where it can be backed up.

The best way to ensure synchronized data files is probably to use SharePoint (free on every recent Windows server) to access and manage the data files. Using folder redirection for all their "My Documents" across a non-local-network is going to be fairly slow. If you want to do that, be sure to use the Server 2003 R2 function that bans copying .MP3 and other non-business files.

If you need backups of local PCs, then you should probably look at backup software.

Exchange is the obvious an ideal setup, given no budget constraints. But in our non-profit, exchange is out of the question. Also, I can run an exchange server myself, but I will be moving to a new organization in a few months, so finding a replacement with all my skills (including exchange) is not the easiest thing. We are looking at moving to Gmail apps if we can find a suitable migration path.

So what is the ideal setup, for Windows XP boxes, with Outlook/Thunberbird/Outlook Express, with a Server 2003 system?

As I asked before, should we just do folder redirection instead of Profiles? Do we store the email .PST files locally, and if so, whats a good way to back them up?

Most of our users have like 200megs in word and excel files. No mp3s or pictures, or movies. The biggest stuff is ususally 300-800megs of emails stored in their PST's.

Originally posted by: Nothinman
If you're really using a 1Mb WLAN then you won't ever find a solution that your users are actually happy with IMO.

Hey thanks captain obvious.

Lets just assume theres no way to change that, and maybe we can get some helpful suggestions?

Not trying to be rude, but I hate the comments that are no help.

 

[dawks]

Am I the only one running a Windows network around here?

 

[GeekDrew]

No, you're definitely not the only one running a Windows network, but Nothinman was right - there *is* no good solution to this. What do you want people to do, pull a rabbit out of a hat?

In my opinion, a 1mbit WLAN is not nearly enough to do either Roaming Profiles *or* Folder Redirection, when we're talking about hundreds of MB of data. I'd make their profiles fully local, keep profile folders on the local workstation, and find *some* other solution for backing up those workstations. What that backup method might be - I don't know, we only back up our servers (our WAN is almost entirely fiber, and even then, every LAN on the WAN has at least one DC / file server / etc).

 

[dawks]

So what about the other 50 users locally with 100mbit connection?

 

[GeekDrew]

That's a lot easier to address, IMO. I'm personally a fan of both roaming profiles + folder redirection. Using the combination of two means that the logon/logoff experience is much smoother, because it isn't downloading all of the user's documents and app data and etc (depending on what all you redirect) every time it needs to load the profile. I'd redirect to the server at least "My Documents" and "Application Data" (and if anyone stores critical files on their desktop, that too).

Regarding corruption... were you only seeing that happening on instances going across the WAN, or also the LAN? Do you have a lot of users logging on/off simultaneously? Do any users log onto multiple workstations concurrently w/ the same username (and therefore same roaming profile)?

 

[dawks]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew
That's a lot easier to address, IMO. I'm personally a fan of both roaming profiles + folder redirection. Using the combination of two means that the logon/logoff experience is much smoother, because it isn't downloading all of the user's documents and app data and etc (depending on what all you redirect) every time it needs to load the profile. I'd redirect to the server at least "My Documents" and "Application Data" (and if anyone stores critical files on their desktop, that too).

Regarding corruption... were you only seeing that happening on instances going across the WAN, or also the LAN? Do you have a lot of users logging on/off simultaneously? Do any users log onto multiple workstations concurrently w/ the same username (and therefore same roaming profile)?

It happens locally as well. Yes we do often have many users logging off simultaneously, but this happens at any time. It happened yesterday afternoon, at 3:00 (most log off's happen at the end of the day - 4:30pm). Users are not logging into multiple machines. The problem in more detail is, during the "saving settings" process, the user will get multiple 'delayed write failures' of pf*.tmp files (these are generally outlook.pst files or thunderbird mailbox files). It only seems to affect these types of files, and the only thing they have in common is a larger size. When the user logs back in, the files are corrupt. (it suggests running scanpst.exe but that doesn't help since most of the file is lost or corrupted). Its just confusing that all the log off is doing is copying the file to the server, and it ends up corrupting it completely. I've seen something about opportunistic locking, but im not sure how that relates to this problem specifically.

We dont have any other obvious network errors. pings work, remote desktop works. other explorer based file copies work (i move 300meg service pack files around all the time and never had a problem). There has to be a setting or configuration problem somewhere. Something like opportunistic locking maybe. I dont know enough about it to try though. Our server network card was using jumbo packets but I switched that back since none of our clients are using it (except one).

Edit: just found this:

I have found that "Delayed Write Failed" errors (eventlog event ID 50),
with a source of MRxSmb (which means the failure came when trying to
write to a network share) can be be caused when the network adaptors in
question (on both the client and the server) have been configured to
autonegotiate the speed/duplex settings of the link. Changing the
network adaptor's properties so that the speed/duplex is 100mbps/full
duplex (for example, pick values that make sense for your network) may
help to elminate this problem.

In my case, I was doing a backup from an XP client (sp2), to a share on
an Windows 2003, sp1, server. The backup would consistently fail with
a "delayed write failure" on the client. Changing the adaptors out of
autonegotiate mode eliminated the problem. More info at
http://tuketu.com/technology/windo [...] 0Write.mht

Is it possible that this might help? Such an odd thing.. Like I said if other network stuff is working fine, how would auto negotiate effect a log off file copy?

 

[rasczak]

Originally posted by: TheKub
Roaming profiles... *shudder*....

agreed... *shudder*

 

[Jeff7181]

If I'm not mistaken Microsoft states that it's not "best practice" to store Outlook PST or OST files on network shares as it may result in additional file corruption on top of the already possible corruption when people have 2+ GB PST files.

 

[dawks]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
If I'm not mistaken Microsoft states that it's not "best practice" to store Outlook PST or OST files on network shares as it may result in additional file corruption on top of the already possible corruption when people have 2+ GB PST files.

Good lord, I don't know how many times I've seen this bagged response for this problem. Maybe English can't describe it correctly? The outlook files are not accessed via a network share. They are stored locally, and copied to the server on log out. It is true that Microsoft advises against storing and accessing them on a network drive, we are not doing that. They are just being copied when the user logs off.

Thanks for the effort though!

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: dawks
Is it possible that this might help? Such an odd thing.. Like I said if other network stuff is working fine, how would auto negotiate effect a log off file copy?

I've seen some really odd things cause by an auto-negotiation failure... I'd definitely switch the adapter to full duplex and disable auto. I've not personally your corruption issue before, but a delayed write failed (to me, at least) indicates that there's some kind of transport failure between windows and the physical storage medium. Whether or not you use roaming profiles and redirected folders should be secondary priority IMO to resolving the write failures.

 

[dawks]

Well as I said, everything else seems to work fine. I can copy the same pst files back and fourth without a problem all day long in explorer.

 

[GeekDrew]

so?

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: dawks

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
If I'm not mistaken Microsoft states that it's not "best practice" to store Outlook PST or OST files on network shares as it may result in additional file corruption on top of the already possible corruption when people have 2+ GB PST files.

Good lord, I don't know how many times I've seen this bagged response for this problem. Maybe English can't describe it correctly? The outlook files are not accessed via a network share. They are stored locally, and copied to the server on log out. It is true that Microsoft advises against storing and accessing them on a network drive, we are not doing that. They are just being copied when the user logs off.

Thanks for the effort though!

Do we store the email .PST files locally, and if so, whats a good way to back them up?

Well then I'm confused, are you asking or telling?

Either way, I suppose if you just wanted a quick and dirty solution, store everything locally and use something like SyncToy to basically mirror stuff to a network location.

 

[dawks]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew
so?

Why would it only screw up during logoffs? is there no CRC checking?

If its an auto negotiate issue, why does it only malfunction during logoffs?

 

[dawks]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: dawks

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
If I'm not mistaken Microsoft states that it's not "best practice" to store Outlook PST or OST files on network shares as it may result in additional file corruption on top of the already possible corruption when people have 2+ GB PST files.

Good lord, I don't know how many times I've seen this bagged response for this problem. Maybe English can't describe it correctly? The outlook files are not accessed via a network share. They are stored locally, and copied to the server on log out. It is true that Microsoft advises against storing and accessing them on a network drive, we are not doing that. They are just being copied when the user logs off.

Thanks for the effort though!

Do we store the email .PST files locally, and if so, whats a good way to back them up?

Well then I'm confused, are you asking or telling?

Either way, I suppose if you just wanted a quick and dirty solution, store everything locally and use something like SyncToy to basically mirror stuff to a network location.

I see the confusion. I realize its a not a good thing to do PST files over the network, so I am asking what is a good way to deal with them? What is the standard? I'm sure not everyone uses exchange. IMAP maybe?

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: dawks

Originally posted by: GeekDrew
so?

Why would it only screw up during logoffs? is there no CRC checking?

If its an auto negotiate issue, why does it only malfunction during logoffs?

I don't have an answer for why your issue only appears while logging on/off. I will tell you that I experienced (back in 2003 or so) repeatable loss or slowness of network connectivity whenever we opened QuickBooks on a certain set of computers. We solved that issue by disabling auto-negotiate. We weren't experiencing *any* other network connectivity issues in that lab, except with QuickBooks. Didn't make much sense to me at the time, but I've since been repeatedly told (by sysadmins much wiser than I am) to disable auto-negotiate and see if things improve.

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: dawks
I see the confusion. I realize its a not a good thing to do PST files over the network, so I am asking what is a good way to deal with them? What is the standard? I'm sure not everyone uses exchange. IMAP maybe?

There is no "standard", but there are several different best practices out there. If your mail server supports IMAP, and the mailbox quotas permit, I'd switch all the clients to IMAP... then you won't have to worry about uploading/downloading the PST files.