I'd like to see Google jump into phone manufacturing

Artdeco

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Mar 14, 2015
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Mossberg just published an article, and I agree with him, Samsung isn't the face of Android any longer, and the current players are going midrange for volume sales, it'd be a smart move for Google to make their own phones, the way Apple does, they already have the software, a few more engineers and contract with manufacturers like Foxcon and they'd have a great start, maybe 4 models, a 4.5-5" high end device and the same size entry level, and do the same with phablet sized phones, the lower end models could sell in developing countries, and sell them all in developed countries.

http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/4/9666760/walt-mossberg-google-nexus-hardware-innovation
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
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maybe 4 models

We have three already:

-Nexus 5X

-Nexus 6P

-Android One

I don't know why it makes a difference if Google makes the phone or if Google contracts it out. Hell Apple gets Foxconn to build its stuff. All the BS about making it all fit together better if its all in-house is nonsense.

What the author (and you I guess OP) really wants isn't a shift in the supply chain, he wants a REAL push from Google to make a phone that actually competes with the iPhone and gets into the hands of non-nerdy consumers. I think Google is going down that path trying to sell the 5X during major sport events via commercials, but at the same time there is a limit to how far a phone sold on a website can reach.

The real "cost" of making a "Google Phone" wouldn't be actually making the phone, it would be building a support network to make the phone a success. They would need to make "Google Stores" so Joe Consumer can take the phone somewhere when it's broke. They would need "Google Geniuses" to help Granda Consumer when she cuts herself on one of stock Android's many sharp edges. They would need stores like Best Buy to play along and give floor space and the ability to train up product salespeople. This is more of what made the iPhone a success than the actual device- real end user support.

The problem is Google HATES regular end users. HATE. Time and time again when they have the chance to accommodate Joe Average they refuse to do so, and they shift back and forth if they actually want to sell a lot of Nexus devices because then they have to support all those people (I think that is why the Nexus 7 never got a third version despite its success).

Google wants to make products for itself, and that is what the Nexuses are- phones for nerds. They are full of bugs and unintuitive actions and other things that would make a good chunk of the public beg to have Touchwiz back. We love them for fast updates and because we are not idiots, but when it comes to technology most people are idiots. Samsung doesn't include an "Easy Mode" on its phones on accident.

Really it comes down to different corporate cultures. Thanks to Jobs Apple is focused on making polished PRODUCTS. iOS isn't the product, Watch OS isn't the product. They are part of products that have really smart people obsessing over the details. The iPhone is the product.

Google's engineers want to work on ideas- aka building things that we haven't see like Google Glass or self driving cars or even just TV dongles before there were any. But they don't want to spend the time/energy to polish those ideas to the level of Apple's products because all that polish work is boring and Google's R&D folks want to move onto the next fun project that they will get to 90% completion as well.

The only company that can match Apple on products and consumer support is Microsoft. We have seen it with the Surfaces, those are great devices. But Microsoft doesn't have a real marketshare in the phone market so the reality is that Apple isn't going to have real competition when Samsung falls off the map.
 

Artdeco

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Mar 14, 2015
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You're right, Google really doesnt want to deal with end users, forgot how horrible their CS was in the past. I was impressed with the quality of CSR's for Project Fi.
 

JAG87

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
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We have three already:

-Nexus 5X

-Nexus 6P

-Android One

I don't know why it makes a difference if Google makes the phone or if Google contracts it out. Hell Apple gets Foxconn to build its stuff. All the BS about making it all fit together better if its all in-house is nonsense.

What the author (and you I guess OP) really wants isn't a shift in the supply chain, he wants a REAL push from Google to make a phone that actually competes with the iPhone and gets into the hands of non-nerdy consumers. I think Google is going down that path trying to sell the 5X during major sport events via commercials, but at the same time there is a limit to how far a phone sold on a website can reach.

The real "cost" of making a "Google Phone" wouldn't be actually making the phone, it would be building a support network to make the phone a success. They would need to make "Google Stores" so Joe Consumer can take the phone somewhere when it's broke. They would need "Google Geniuses" to help Granda Consumer when she cuts herself on one of stock Android's many sharp edges. They would need stores like Best Buy to play along and give floor space and the ability to train up product salespeople. This is more of what made the iPhone a success than the actual device- real end user support.

The problem is Google HATES regular end users. HATE. Time and time again when they have the chance to accommodate Joe Average they refuse to do so, and they shift back and forth if they actually want to sell a lot of Nexus devices because then they have to support all those people (I think that is why the Nexus 7 never got a third version despite its success).

Google wants to make products for itself, and that is what the Nexuses are- phones for nerds. They are full of bugs and unintuitive actions and other things that would make a good chunk of the public beg to have Touchwiz back. We love them for fast updates and because we are not idiots, but when it comes to technology most people are idiots. Samsung doesn't include an "Easy Mode" on its phones on accident.

Really it comes down to different corporate cultures. Thanks to Jobs Apple is focused on making polished PRODUCTS. iOS isn't the product, Watch OS isn't the product. They are part of products that have really smart people obsessing over the details. The iPhone is the product.

Google's engineers want to work on ideas- aka building things that we haven't see like Google Glass or self driving cars or even just TV dongles before there were any. But they don't want to spend the time/energy to polish those ideas to the level of Apple's products because all that polish work is boring and Google's R&D folks want to move onto the next fun project that they will get to 90% completion as well.

The only company that can match Apple on products and consumer support is Microsoft. We have seen it with the Surfaces, those are great devices. But Microsoft doesn't have a real marketshare in the phone market so the reality is that Apple isn't going to have real competition when Samsung falls off the map.

Bra-vo. Can't find anything I disagree with.
 

jhansman

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2004
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They let Asus make the Nexus 7, which (at least the 2013 version; dunno about the 2012) was a stone winner. Then they went and let HTC make the Nexus 9, which was not nearly as successful. So, what have they learned? That Apple sticking with with Foxconn has served them well. And, point well taken re: Microsoft. They have a great device in the Surface Pro models, and have pretty much taken Samsung out of the tablet market. If I had the $$, I'd be typing this on a 256GB i7 Surface Pro 4. But, I digress; Google has the resources to make any phone they want; they just need to find a class A manufacturer, design intelligently, and market the crap out of it.
 
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Artdeco

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Mar 14, 2015
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Motorola was a manufacturer, they don't need that, they need a Google branded phone line by Google, not a partner, and treat them like the nexus line with updates.

Cut AOSP loose, and call it a day, let the other manufacturers fight over the scraps.
 

dawheat

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
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Google's engineers want to work on ideas- aka building things that we haven't see like Google Glass or self driving cars or even just TV dongles before there were any. But they don't want to spend the time/energy to polish those ideas to the level of Apple's products because all that polish work is boring and Google's R&D folks want to move onto the next fun project that they will get to 90% completion as well.

I think this is absolutely true. Whether it be the transition to Alphabet, or in every interview with the CEO down, they want to work on moonshots while search pays for it all.

I honestly believe they care more about Android being on the next billion devices, especially at the underserved and lower end markets, than having the best possible flagship device possible. I don't think corporately they care about having a phone as good as the newest iPhone, they'd rather have a dozen affordable phones that anyone can buy.

Now of course they'd love to have users get hooked on Google services while you're at it - but they probably honestly believe it's the best services anyway.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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Google is about gathering data and using it to serve targeted ads. They don't even care about whether it's on an Android phone, much less whether it's on a Nexus. Android for Google is a back up plan in case Apple decides to block Google's services on iOS for its own strategic reasons. Without Android, iOS Google services users would suck it up, but with Android,they have an option of jumping ship. That keeps the balance of power between Google and Apple.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
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I honestly believe they care more about Android being on the next billion devices, especially at the underserved and lower end markets, than having the best possible flagship device possible. I don't think corporately they care about having a phone as good as the newest iPhone, they'd rather have a dozen affordable phones that anyone can buy.

Because their real product is eyeballs and not devices. The more the merrier. Android is just a way to control a chunk of the mobile market so Apple can't cut them off from revenue (which they are kinda doing with allowing content blockers).
 

MarkizSchnitzel

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Nov 10, 2013
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Awesome read on this thread. Concise dissection of how power is distributed in mobile.

With the balance achieved, what do you think would need to happen for the ballance to allow a third player (probably MS?)? Other than planet allignements..
 

Artdeco

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Mar 14, 2015
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Google is a publicly held company, and they're leaving billions on the table.
 

ControlD

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Apr 25, 2005
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Google is a publicly held company, and they're leaving billions on the table.

And as a publicly traded company, if the board and majority holders start to demand that Google gets into the handset business then you might see some changes. As it is, that isn't happening.

You could make the same argument for any company not making any product.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
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Funny, I remember the Verge putting out an article that basically asked why is Google still making phones, and now here's an article saying they need to make phones.

I'm perfectly content with how Nexus devices are done now. If Google were to get into manufacturing they would become serious competitors with the other OEMs.

Maybe they could do a Pixel phone? It would aim for the absolute highest end in specs and features, and would also cost an arm and a leg to not piss off other OEMs?
 

ControlD

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Apr 25, 2005
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Funny, I remember the Verge putting out an article that basically asked why is Google still making phones, and now here's an article saying they need to make phones.

Yeah, I know that Verge article. It wasn't from too long ago. I didn't really agree with any of their conclusions on that one.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
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Oct 28, 1999
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It's funny because almost all the reviews I read on the 6P & 5X basically said why does anyone but Google need to make an Android phone?

Seriously...these two devices are well built, not smitten with carrier bloat, guaranteed updates for longer than any other device, factory unlocked and widely supported, and priced very affordable.
 
Mar 15, 2003
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I think that's the opposite of what google wants to do. Do they really *compete* with apple? Do they want GOOGLE to be the high end choice? Do they care? They make quite a bit from their ad-based model regardless of platform, and it's kinda the genius of their approach. I think they'd rather have Asians fight over the table scraps that come through hardware sales, have them deal with the csr experience (or not, which is often the case), and just continue to leave hardware risks to everyone else. Do I think they should plug Nexus more? Sure, I think they could put their marketing muscle behind their own damn product! It's insane that they don't and must be for a reason. Maybe they just don't care. Android's ecosystem hasn't proven valuable enough (devs make more money on iOS after all) so ads is their bread and butter and the LOWER end market is must more susceptible to taco bell ads than the savvy apple yuppies, right? Flood the market with cheap phones for people who will buy snickers bars if they see a banner ad and really want blood red drippy vampire home screens, because customization matters.

I actually bet you the opposite - android gets pushed further into commodity (I picked up an LG prepaid for $15! and it does everything my s6 edge did, poorly, but $15!) and google monetizes by "optimizing" the ad experience. Android phones come free in cereal boxes and advertising gets tied into the core of the experience. GoogleNow blasting "It's Lunchtime, would you like to place an order for pickup at McDonalds" sorta 'useful but still an ad' sorta stuff - with all those new sensors and all that they could know exactly what you want and when. Working out at a local gym? Gatorade banner on candy crush! They continue to let their asian friends have horrible business models reliant on zero margins shouldering all the risks, let them close down one by one chasing pennies on hardware while google cleans up on ad dollars while Apple becomes even more high end hardware wise. I mean ridiculously high end, like $5,000 LV purse high end (which is what I believe they're aiming to do slowly, they had MANY fashion marketing hires lately). It won't be overnight, but I believe the apple watch with models ranging from $399 to $20,000 is a peak into apple's future.

I believe android on the low to mid and Apple on the high end was how it was always meant to be, Jobs being very chummy with Google's board for a long time. They became enemies when Samsung attempted to encroach on Apple's high end turf, but now everything's aligning to their original plan. Flood the market with cheap handsets, turn on the ads and valuable geo-based ads by Android P. Or maybe I'm paranoid. :)
 
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poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
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Google is a publicly held company, and they're leaving billions on the table.

Not necessarily. It would be a big risk pushing a Galaxy-level Google branded phone because it would destroy the relationships they have with partners like Samsung, LG, and now Chinese brands like Huawei. If suddenly those companies have to compete directly with Google maybe they look at forking the OS or replacing it with something that Google doesn't control. Android right now dominates mobile phone marketshare because of these partners, if Google stabs them in the back then they HAVE TO execute perfectly on their phones to not use marketshare.

And that itself is a very questionable prospect. Google really has never been a consumer products company. They really an advertising giant that ended up competing with Apple because other options (Web OS, Windows Mobile, etc.) couldn't get their act together. The few devices they have put out often have a beta quality to them- for example the first Chromecast was basically the beta for the current one.

Apple has always been a products company. First they sold computers, then they sold phones and other devices like routers. From the start they have been product focused, and they had a visionary in charge that could herd all the cats in the R&D side to put out a finished product that anyone can use. The leap for them into selling iPhones was much more natural, there wasn't nearly the risk that Google has trying to compete with its partners.

Microsoft shows what happens if Google messes up. The Nokia purchase was basically a huge waste, and Windows Mobile market position is in a worse place than it was a few years ago when Nokia was a separate company. There is no way for that platform to recover, as evidenced by Microsoft's increased development for iOS and Android. MS lost billions, which is the opposite of what you think Google's upside is.

Or look at what happened to Amazon. They are a much better product company than Google, have a MUCH better distribution chain than Google could build in years of trying, and their phone was a HUGE flop. Like legendary flop. I don't think Google's shareholders look at the Fire Phone as see a situation where Google is leaving "billions" on the table.

Google not making a Galaxy-level phone is a much smaller risk. Android will become the Windows of mobile unless they screw up that momentum. That means millions of eyeballs they control to feed their ad business, which is where Google's shareholders have traditionally seen value.




I get it, I promise I get it. People get sick of Apple's heavy handed practices so they pray to the heavens that someone will actually compete with them toe-to-toe on polish and style. Samsung looked like a viable competitor, but every year since the Galaxy S1 (which was basically an iPhone copy) they have eroded the consumer trust to the point that we know they cannot compete directly with Apple on polish and products. Apple is unique in its polish and product focus, more an exception than a rule.

We need to accept that no one will compete with Apple going forward. Just like what happened with laptops Apple is about to become the defacto high-end, and everything else will be choosing which compromises you can live with. That sucks for the OCD people that freak out because the gap between the screen and the phone is too big, but for the rest of us we are better served by a competitive Android marketplace. If Google back-stabs their partners that goes down the tubes.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
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With the balance achieved, what do you think would need to happen for the ballance to allow a third player (probably MS?)?

I think there is a place for a new OS to come in at the very low end (think developing world). But that isn't the real story.

The real story is that over the next ten years these mobile OSes will go into places were Windows stood alone. The iPad Pro is a shot in that direction, as are things like Chrome OS (that I expect to merge with Android eventually). In 2020 there won't be this line between "real" OSes and "phone" OSes because we will be able to buy PCs running Android and phones running Windows.

So the third player already exists- Windows X86. The old empire will have to defend its consumer market position against the mobile upstarts, and I predict they will lose. Windows x86 will mostly be a business product by the time we see a Playstation 5.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
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Motorola was a manufacturer, they don't need that, they need a Google branded phone line by Google, not a partner, and treat them like the nexus line with updates.

Cut AOSP loose, and call it a day, let the other manufacturers fight over the scraps.

/facepalm
 

openwheel

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Apr 30, 2012
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Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
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You realize the EU is going to brutalize Google shortly, right?

You posted that Google didn't need Motorola b/c they're a manufacturer but you want Google to manufacture their own phones.

Not sure if you're really this ignorant, trolling or still in high school.
 

Artdeco

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2015
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You posted that Google didn't need Motorola b/c they're a manufacturer but you want Google to manufacture their own phones.

Not sure if you're really this ignorant, trolling or still in high school.

None of the above, Google can contract the manufacture of the phones out to manufacturers overseas, owning Moto is beside the point, and it was a horrible, expensive mistake.

Not sure if you understand how Apple makes phones.