Ichiro is the greatest singles hitter of any era

[SP33Demon]

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/70582/ichiro-joins-the-4000-hit-club

Ichiro Suzuki has accomplished a feat that has only been done by two players in Major League Baseball history -– 4,000 career hits.

After totaling 1,278 hits in Japan before coming to the majors, he reached the 4,000-hit mark on Wednesday night. Pete Rose and Ty Cobb are the only players in major-league history with 4,000 career hits.

Since entering the majors in 2001, Ichiro has nearly 400 hits more than any other player. He’s one of four players in history with at least 150 hits in each of his first 12 seasons, along with Paul Waner (1926-39), Richie Ashburn (1948-60) and Albert Pujols (2001-12). Ichiro has a chance to reach 150 hits for a 13th straight season this year.

Ichiro set the single-season mark for most hits in a season back in 2004 with 262. That surpassed the previous record, established back in 1920 by George Sisler.

Ichiro has recorded 10 seasons of at least 200 hits in his career, tied for the most in baseball history with Pete Rose. All 10 of Suzuki’s 200-hit seasons came with the Mariners.

His hit total through 13 seasons is the most for anyone in major-league history within any 13-season span.

He entered this season, his age-39 season, needing 394 hits to reach 3,000. Should he get to 3,000, he’d be only the ninth player since 1990 with at least 394 hits from his age-39 season on.

Ichiro has the fifth-most wins above replacement since entering the league in 2001. Only Pujols, Alex Rodriguez, Adrian Beltre and Carlos Beltran have more.

Hit number 2,722 in his major-league career was a milestone in one other respect. It allowed him to pass Yankees great Lou Gehrig on the all-time hit list.

I don't give a shit about Pete Rose, Ichiro is the greatest singles hitter of any era on any continent.

 

[iRONic]

I don't give a shit about Pete Rose, Ichiro is the greatest singles hitter of any era on any continent.

I guess if the player is content with that as the defining achievement of their career...

Props to him though. That's a lot of hits!

 

[MontyAC]

Except for power, Ichiro is a great player.

 

[dainthomas]

I guess if the player is content with that as the defining achievement of their career...

What's wrong with that? Seems like a pretty big deal. I'm not an expert, but it seems more helpful to a team than someone who's only good at hitting HR's.

And of course there's his ten straight Gold Gloves, which was a first if I recall.

 

[Miramonti]

I don't care how they want to pump the media with this, but the japan professional leagues are not the mlb. Ichiro is still Pete Rose's b!tch.

 

[jhu]

I don't care how they want to pump the media with this, but the japan professional leagues are not the mlb. Ichiro is still Pete Rose's b!tch.

一郎 is averaging 245 hits/season in MLB. He's trouncing Pete's average of 184 hits/season

 

[surfsatwerk]

All the crooks in baseball, it's a crime to keep Pete out of the hof.

 

[Pantoot]

一郎 is averaging 245 hits/season in MLB. He's trouncing Pete's average of 184 hits/season

And if he can keep it up for another 10 years then there will be no question as to who is better.

 

[esquared]

一郎 is averaging 245 hits/season in MLB. He's trouncing Pete's average of 184 hits/season

Ichiro only hit over 245 once.

Ichiro's average through his first 12 years in MLB are 217 hits per year, 2606 total hits.

Take Rose's hits at the same age as ichiro if you want to compare apples to apples.
That means Rose's years from 1968 to 1979 when both were 27-38 years old.

Rose has 2473 hits in that same 12 year span. His average is 206 hits per year.

 

[Miramonti]

一郎 is averaging 245 hits/season in MLB. He's trouncing Pete's average of 184 hits/season

Rose averaged 194 per 162 games, ichiro 217.

Where do you get 245/season...he only had 245+ in one season, lol.

Rose averaged 34 doubles/per to Ichiro's 26.

OPB, SLG, and OPS are fairly similar.

Rose played in THE major leagues for 24 years, Ichiro 13. Bend over ichiro, whoozer daddy!

What Ichiro might have done for a full career in MLB will never be known, so he should be judged by what he's actually done. I'm not suggesting he's been a slouch by any degree, he's been fvcking awesome, but it is what it is, 13 years in the baseball best league in the world.

 

[sawtx]

I would go with Willie Keller as the best singles hitter in baseball, more hits per game (1.38 vs. 1.34) and a lower ISO (0.073 vs. 0.096), if you want to go with any era.

 

[Miramonti]

Ichiro has averaged 100 runs a year/per 162 games, Rose 98. That's Rose's stronger on base percentage due to his more numerous walks, vs. Ichiro's superior speed stealing bases and getting around to home plate.

Both players are clearly the best at getting hits in the history of the game, with exception of ty cobb, whose 162 game averages smoked both of these players.

Overall, it's very unfortunate it took so long for MLB to take japanese players seriously, but it's been beyond a treat watching Ichiro while he's been here.

 

[Miramonti]

I would go with Willie Keller as the best singles hitter in baseball, more hits per game (1.38 vs. 1.34) and a lower ISO (0.073 vs. 0.096), if you want to go with any era.

Forgot about him, but Ty Cobb would still be the easy choice all considered.

 

[dainthomas]

Rose averaged 194 per 162 games, ichiro 217.

Where do you get 245/season...he only had 245+ in one season, lol.

Rose averaged 34 doubles/per to Ichiro's 26.

OPB, SLG, and OPS are fairly similar.

Rose played in THE major leagues for 24 years, Ichiro 13. Bend over ichiro, whoozer daddy!

What Ichiro might have done for a full career in MLB will never be known, so he should be judged by what he's actually done. I'm not suggesting he's been a slouch by any degree, he's been fvcking awesome, but it is what it is, 13 years in the baseball best league in the world.

An interesting question would be the quality of competition in 90's Japanese baseball versus 60's-70's MLB.

 

[Miramonti]

An interesting question would be the quality of competition in 90's Japanese baseball versus 60's-70's MLB.

One has to believe the quality of play generally has increased thru the years in all sports, but I think that's somewhat of a wash when comparing the validity of most stats since neither influencing factors (excluding PED's) give players an advantage or disadvantage over their peers.

Advances in training methods, nutritional diet knowledge, medical treatment and rehab, and so on all have led to an improved quality of play imo.

Perhaps the exception is simply longevity, would you would think would be much harder to play at a high level for many years back in the day, when surgeries were less efficient and treatments were less effective.

 

[Phokus]

Except for power, Ichiro is a great player.

He's actually really strong and can whallop home runs, it's just that he purposefully limits his swing because he values having a high batting average/On base Percentage over home runs, good article here:

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/jenkins/article/Closing-the-deal-Ichiro-Byrnes-like-no-one-3325193.php

Ichiro, a man of wondrous strength, puts on impressive power-hitting displays almost nightly in batting practice. And he'll go deep occasionally in games, looking very much like someone who could do it again, often.

Mostly, though, Ichiro is death by handkerchief. In the first inning, with lefty Mark Redman nibbling on the outside corner, Ichiro sliced a groundball single between third and short. Next time up, with the A's perhaps leaning that way again, he singled through the other side of the diamond.

The man lives for hits, little tiny ones, and the glory of standing atop the world in that category. Every spring, scouts or media types write him off, swearing that opposing pitchers have found the key, and they are embarrassingly wrong. Ichiro's three-year hit totals are 242, 202 and 212, and he's right on schedule with a league-leading 145 this morning.

Ichiro has a home run batting stroke that he displays in batting practice, but not in games.[50][72] The New York Times criticized his inability to improve his power when his Mariner teams were often low-scoring while noting that he also did not steal bases as frequently as Rickey Henderson or Tim Raines.[72] Ichiro, however, once commented, "If I'm allowed to hit .220, I could probably hit 40 [home runs], but nobody wants that."[50]

 

[lupi]

Was still in seattle during start of the 01 season, glad to see the beginning of his mlb start.

 

[iRONic]

What's wrong with that? Seems like a pretty big deal. I'm not an expert, but it seems more helpful to a team than someone who's only good at hitting HR's.

And of course there's his ten straight Gold Gloves, which was a first if I recall.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it.

 

[todpod]

Rose, a switch hitter, is the all-time Major League leader in hits (4,256), games played (3,562), at-bats (14,053) and outs (10,328).[1] He won three World Series rings, three batting titles, one Most Valuable Player Award, two Gold Gloves, the Rookie of the Year Award, and also made 17 All-Star appearances at an unequaled five different positions (2B, LF, RF, 3B & 1B). Claims were made that he pitched in a scrimmage game and threw close to 100 mph.

 

[Miramonti]

Rose scoffs at Ichiro's 4000 hits

And I don't blame him for a second...

New York Yankees outfielder Ichiro Suzuki may have 4,000 career professional hits, but never, ever, will he catch all-time hit leader Pete Rose.

So says the only other man still alive to collect 4,000 hits.

"He's still 600 hits away from catching [teammate] Derek Jeter,'' Rose told USA TODAY Sports, "so how can he catch me?''

Rose's methodology: Jeter has 3,308 major league hits, Suzuki 2,722. Yes, Rose discounts the 1,278 hits Suzuki amassed while playing in Japan's top league - at least as they relate to being considered the Hit King.

Therefore, if Suzuki has 4,000 career hits, Rose says, then he has 4,673 hits.

"Hey, if we're counting professional hits,'' says Rose, the major-league hit leader at 4,256, "then add on my 427 career hits in the minors. I was a professional then, too.

"If you look at the records, Henry Aaron has 4,000 professional hits. So did Stan Musial.''

Rose may be 72 years old, and produced his last hit in 1986, but the man knows his baseball stats.

Aaron indeed had 4,095 professional hits - 3,771 in the major leagues and 371 in the minors. Musial had 4,001 professional hits - 3,630 hits in the majors and 371 in the minors.

"I don't want to take anything away from (Suzuki),'' Rose says, "but does anybody remember making a big deal when Henry Aaron had 755 homers and [Japanese slugger] Sadaharu Oh passed him?

"Are we now supposed to count Warren Moon's passing yards in the Canadian Football League to his NFL career stats?[ :biggrin: ]

"When you compare yourself to me, Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker and Nap Lajoie, we all did it in the states.''

Don't misinterpret Rose's opinion of Suzuki. Rose believes he is one of the greatest hitters of his era. Rose may never get into the Hall of Fame after receiving a lifetime ban for gambling, but he says that Suzuki richly deserves the honor.

"Listen, if I'm voting today for the Hall of Fame,'' Rose says, "Ichiro has got my vote. He's got the [10] Gold Gloves. The golden arm. A lot of hits. There's really nothing wrong with his game.

"I wouldn't even make him wait five years, I'll tell you that.''

(more...)

 

[JujuFish]

Speaking of Rose, the Baseball Hall of Fame needs to take the stick out of its ass and induct the man.

 

[dainthomas]

Rose scoffs at Ichiro's 4000 hits

And I don't blame him for a second...

I don't think he was really scoffing at Ichiro's hits. He mentions several times how much he respects him as a complete player. The ten gold gloves versus Rose's two or three speak to that.

The fact is, Ichiro wouldn't have gotten as many hits in MLB during the years he was in Japan. But he certainly would have gotten the vast majority of them, which would have him closing in on 4k pretty soon anyway.

I think his comparisons to the minors and CFL were just Rose displaying Rose's sense of humor. I always liked the guy.

 

[Miramonti]

I don't think he was really scoffing at Ichiro's hits. He mentions several times how much he respects him as a complete player. The ten gold gloves versus Rose's two or three speak to that.

The fact is, Ichiro wouldn't have gotten as many hits in MLB during the years he was in Japan. But he certainly would have gotten the vast majority of them, which would have him closing in on 4k pretty soon anyway.

I think his comparisons to the minors and CFL were just Rose displaying Rose's sense of humor. I always liked the guy.

I think he scoffed at the suggestion Ichiro's 4,000 hits are near the equivalent of his accomplishments. "If" ichiro was in the US for all those years, it could have been a lot different, and he perhaps would have passed Musial and Aaron, not far behind rose at this point.

But "ifs" have little meaning and is why Bo Jackson isn't in the NFL HOF. Ichiro will be inducted of course, but it is what it is, 2,723 at this point and Rose isn't willing to recognize any more than that.

 

[SP33Demon]

Forgot about him, but Ty Cobb would still be the easy choice all considered.

No he wouldn't, because he couldn't match Ichiro's rate of hits at the same age (27-39) in the majors.

Most hits at ages 27-39 by MLB hitters:

1) Ichiro - 2722
2) Rose - 2658
3) Cobb - 2300
3a) Jeter - 2300
4) Musial - 2229
5) Aaron - 2200

So Cobb cannot match the longevity and greatness of Ichiro's hits from the same timespan in their lives. Granted, Cobb did play in slightly shorter season but that's not going to make up the difference [8X13=104 at a hit a game (likely), or 208 at 2 hits/game (unlikely)]. Cobb still doesn't even pass Rose. I'll give you that Cobb was way more valuable though, amassing roughly 80 WAR to Ichiro's 60 for the same timespan, mainly due to an OPS+ of 161 (.956 raw OPS) vs Ichiro's paltry 112.

Funny stuff from the Buster Olney podcast - Ichiro remembers where (stadium) every single one of his baseball cards was taken from. lmao

Bobby Valentine also swears that Ichiro is a math wizard and can calculate the geometry of where a ball will land in the field and where he has to get to before the ball lands as soon as it's hit. Also claims that Ichiro saw a building with a bunch of numbers on it and added them in his head in 3 seconds, lol.

Ichiro, when he first came to the majors, demanded a 3 bedroom apt instead of 2 because he needed an extra room to practice swinging a bat in.