Iceland, the revolution will not be televised

[RabidMongoose]

Are you making personal attacks ?

I'm saying that you're so patriotic that you are very very biased against Iceland.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Iceland is a drop in the bucket, it only has 300,000 people there. Its basically a City state. What happens there cant easily happen in other places. All of the changes happening in the West which are not very noticable at first in larger nations [such as mass immigration, bad financial policies etc] are readily apparent in a small city state nation like Iceland to everyone living there. If the masses disagree with whats happening, then yes there is going to be trouble asap. In the UK or another large nation the media can just sweep it under the rug as "trouble hits X city" and people forget about it..

I am at least happy they took into custody the landsbanki ceo or at least have a warrant for him.
OP article :

Interpol put out an international arrest warrant for the ex-president of Kaupthing, Sigurdur Einarsson, as the other bankers implicated in the crash fled the country.

I had seen a documentary once. In this documentary it became apparent that these financial players had some fishy background.
Personally i think it is great that they refuse to pay for the mistakes of some banking ceo who refuses to take responsibility. And it is never that they lived in poverty. Living in Iceland seems to be quite luxurious.
In the end there will be some agreement and a "i scratch your back if you scratch mine". The Netherlands seems to have bought a lot of aluminum from Iceland. And probably will continue to do so. There was never any hostility. But of course there had to be worked towards a solution. In the end Iceland will be an EU member as well. At least, that makes sense to me. But i could be wrong of course...

 

[William Gaatjes]

I'm saying that you're so patriotic that you are very very biased against Iceland.

No, every time i post something you post as well with spouting your lies.
You are unable to read because i never mentioned such bias against Iceland. And you make personal attacks. Oh well. Live should go on...



EDIT:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

Neoliberalism is a contemporary form of economic liberalism that emphasizes the efficiency of private enterprise, liberalized trade and relatively open markets to promote globalization. Neoliberals therefore seek to maximize the role of the private sector in determining the political and economic priorities of the world. The label "neoliberalism" was created by its ideological opponents,[citation needed] but it has also been used by proponents of neoliberal policies.

 

[infoiltrator]

Easy credit, big investments without returns sufficent for payback.
Like the Savings and Loan bubble only worse.
Banks are supposed to follow risk management guidelines, they can become as infatuated with profit schemes as anyone else.
Governments "helping" or "controlling" the situation often violate "reserve" and "risk" management, or allow the principles to.
Icelandic barrowers over expanded the fishing fleet, built resorts and housing/office investments unneeded, and used barrowed money for foreign project investment or markets.

It IS like a "rent to own" company offering low interest.
Payments have to cover bad debts and operating expenses, and profit.
Government "control" means guarrantees and rules. Sometimes this works, sometimes not.
The players or the government can act like a gambler on a losing streak.

 

[RabidMongoose]

No, every time i post something you post as well with spouting your lies.
You are unable to read because i never mentioned such bias against Iceland. And you make personal attacks. Oh well. Live should go on...



EDIT:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

You're the one who made a personal attack. That's all you really do when you are faced with opposition, it's a very common tactic among very patriotic Europeans who cannot tolerate differences in opinions.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Easy credit, big investments without returns sufficent for payback.
Like the Savings and Loan bubble only worse.
Banks are supposed to follow risk management guidelines, they can become as infatuated with profit schemes as anyone else.
Governments "helping" or "controlling" the situation often violate "reserve" and "risk" management, or allow the principles to.
Icelandic barrowers over expanded the fishing fleet, built resorts and housing/office investments unneeded, and used barrowed money for foreign project investment or markets.

It IS like a "rent to own" company offering low interest.
Payments have to cover bad debts and operating expenses, and profit.
Government "control" means guarrantees and rules. Sometimes this works, sometimes not.
The players or the government can act like a gambler on a losing streak.

This i agree upon. Iceland was doing well. But Iceland had a large boost because of the financial sector, at least according to what i just read. What the issue was, was that the financial sector (The 3 banks) of Iceland did not have money of their own. They primarily had money that was from non Icelandic foreign investors. That is why the credit crisis of 2008 hit them so hard. The same problems we had in the EU and the US also happened in Iceland. And that is why the foreigners (Dutch and Brits for the Icesave debacle) who stored their savings at icesave got so worried when landsbanki ( I forgot the s in my other posts) had liquidity problems.

 

[William Gaatjes]

You're the one who made a personal attack. That's all you really do when you are faced with opposition, it's a very common tactic among very patriotic Europeans who cannot tolerate differences in opinions.

Look, let the grown man have an interesting discussion ok ?
Here is a toy :

Now stay a good little lad, will you.
(*pinches rabidmongooses cheek*):awe:

 

[hal2kilo]

Go Iceland!

This is proof ALL of our media is corporate/wallstreet controlled. We have these ridiculous arguments of liberal versus conservatives on this forum as if they are the difference between night and day when in reality they are just slight variations in the status quo.

You tell'em Iceland
Fuck the banks!!!

 

[Jhhnn]

"The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

-Margaret Thatcher

That's true when you privatize profits & socialize losses, which is what the Icelanders have rejected.

If the UK & Dutch govts compensated their citizens for losses incurred in privatized Icelandic banks, that's their problem. It's not like they gave a damn about the people who lost money, anyway, but rather about protecting their own bankers, about protecting the system of the financial elite.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Look, let the grown man have an interesting discussion ok ?

By 'interesting discussion' you mean pro-Dutch discussion? Sorry, but I'm not going to go along with that. You need to learn that not everyone is going to be a super-patriot like you.

 

[William Gaatjes]

That's true when you privatize profits & socialize losses, which is what the Icelanders have rejected.

If the UK & Dutch govts compensated their citizens for losses incurred in privatized Icelandic banks, that's their problem. It's not like they gave a damn about the people who lost money, anyway, but rather about protecting their own bankers, about protecting the system of the financial elite.

This is true, but with a reason. In the Netherlands, it is a complex story but in essence there was the postbank. A national bank. Since the neoliberalism ideas where also present in the Netherlands, everything had to privatized and also because of the EU. There was also the ING. And a few more banks. These banks are so intertwined into the economy and the financial services of the Netherlands, that had these banks not been saved, the country would had fallen apart immediately. The Netherlands primarily just buys and sells and ships. There is little made here since it is deemed that other countries can make it cheaper.( I do not agree, but what can i do at the moment)
And since the Netherlands also has the economic model that future citizens pay for the costs of this moment... I often come up with solutions for the US economic situation, but these are needed here in the Netherlands as well. I see it going down the drain as well. Turning into a future EU pig. Just as with the US, i see a lot of similarities. Mistakes that do not have to be made.

ING history :
http://www.ing.com/Our-Company/About-us/History-of-ING.htm

ING was founded in 1991 by a merger between Nationale-Nederlanden and NMB Postbank Group. During the past years ING has become a multinational with diverse international activities.

The roots of ING can be traced to the insurers De Nationale Levensverzekering Bank and De Nederlanden van 1845 and to the public bank services such as De Rijkspostspaarbank and De Postcheque- and Girodienst, as well as to the Nederlandsche Middenstands Bank. These are the legal predecessors of the ‘founding fathers’ of ING: Nationale-Nederlanden and NMB Postbank Group.

The founding of ING as one company was started in 1990 when the legal restrictions on mergers between insurers and banks were lifted in the Netherlands. This prompted insurance company Nationale-Nederlanden and banking company NMB Postbank Groep to enter into negotiations. The merger into Internationale Nederlanden Groep took place in 1991. The market soon abbreviated the name to I-N-G. The company followed suit by changing the statutory name to ING Groep N.V. Since 1991, ING has developed from a Dutch company with some international business to a multinational with Dutch roots. This was achieved through a mixture of organic growth, such as the creation of ING Direct from scratch, as well as various large acquisitions.

The first large acquisition took place in 1995, when ING took over Barings Bank. This acquisition increased the brand recognition of ING around the world and strengthened its wholesale banking presence in the emerging markets. And then there was Life of Georgia. This insurance company was acquired by Nationale-Nederlanden in 1979, resulting in a significant increase in activities in the US. Via Life of Georgia, the activities in Asia expanded considerably. However in 2004, ING as a group had become well-established in both regions and Life of Georgia was sold.

Other acquisitions, such as the Belgian Bank Brussels Lambert, strengthened the Group’s presence in the Benelux. In addition, the activities in the United States were doubled as a result of organic growth and the acquisition of Equitable of Iowa, ReliaStar, Aetna Financial Services and merchant bank Furman Selz.

ING is also active in other parts of the world. In 2001, ING acquired a majority interest in the Polish Bank Śląski and entered the Indian life insurance market through ING Vysya Life Insurance.

Furthermore, ING participates in a number of financial institutions. An important example is the partnership with the Bank of Beijing.

What is really awful, is that in recent years, not only dutch citizens saved money at the icesave account. But also the separate government entities. These government entities did not get their money back. This means that the taxpayer in the Netherlands had to pay for it if Iceland had refused to pay back.

Main failures :

• Dutch government entities putting a surplus of money on foreign bank accounts (high interest return was the reason)
• The DNB did not force such strict rules that it was impossible for Icesave to operate. The DNB knew that landsbanki was not reliable.
• Typical banking errors as all western countries have(cokesniffing glamour model humping manager bastards).
• Iceland should have never let it come as far as they did. They where doing fine. Now they are in financial trouble because of the same banking bullshit : Lending out what you do not have. And buying risky mortgages from unknown origin.

 

[JSt0rm]

good read. I'm glad they are able to make their own future.

 

[William Gaatjes]

It is wikipedia but it seems to collaborate everything :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_Iceland

1990s
In 1991, the Independence Party, led by Davíð Oddsson, formed a coalition government with the Social Democrats. This government set in motion market liberalisation policies, privatising a number of small and large companies. At the same time economic stability increased and previously chronic inflation was drastically reduced.[citation needed] In 1995, the Independence Party formed a coalition government with the Progressive Party. This government continued with the free-market policies, privatising two commercial banks and the state-owned telecom Síminn. Corporate incomes tax was reduced to 18% (from around 50% at the beginning of the decade), inheritance tax was greatly reduced and the net wealth tax abolished.[citation needed] "Nordic Tiger" was a term used to refer to the period of economic prosperity in Iceland that began in the post-Cold-War 1990s.[2]


Icelandic financial crisis
The "Nordic Tiger" period ended in a national financial crisis in 2008, when the country's major banks failed and were taken over by the country's government.

The Icelandic Central Bank approached the Bank of England in March 2008 for assistance to support its currency as confidence in its heavily-indebted banking system began to ebb away.[3]

Following sharp inflation in the Icelandic króna during 2008, the three major banks in Iceland, Glitnir, Landsbanki and Kaupthing were placed under government control. A subsidiary of Landsbanki, Icesave, which operated in the UK and the Netherlands, was declared insolvent, putting the savings of thousands of UK and Dutch customers at risk.[4] It also transpired that over 70 local authorities in the UK held more than £550 million of cash in Icelandic banks.[5][6] In response to statements that the accounts of UK depositors would not be guaranteed, the British governments seized assets of the banks and of the Icelandic government.[7]

On 28 October 2008, Iceland's central bank raised its interest rate to 18% to fight inflation.[8]

Following negotiations underway with the IMF since October,[9] a package of $4.6bn was finally agreed on 19 November, with the IMF loaning $2.1bn and another $2.5bn of loans and currency swaps from Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark. In addition, Poland has offered to lend $200M and the Faroe Islands have offered 300M Danish kroner ($50M, about 3% of Faroese GDP).[10] The Icelandic government also reported that Russia has offered $300M.[11] The next day, Germany, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom announced a joint loan of $6.3bn (€5bn), related to the deposit insurance dispute.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008–2011_Icelandic_financial_crisis

 

[RabidMongoose]

Really Iceland's final blow came from British supported by the Dutch cohorts, where the British used anti-terrorism laws to freeze Icelandic assets. It was the final blow and definitely an economic attack against Iceland.

 

[cybrsage]

Here is a toy :

I had this one as a kid:

I LOVED it!

 

[William Gaatjes]

Really Iceland's final blow came from British supported by the Dutch cohorts, where the British used anti-terrorism laws to freeze Icelandic assets. It was the final blow and definitely an economic attack against Iceland.

The Iceland government and banking rats :

That afternoon, there was a telephone conversation between Icelandic Finance Minister Árni Mathiesen and UK Chancellor of the Exchequer Alistair Darling.[52] That evening, one of the governors of the Central Bank of Iceland, Davíð Oddsson, was interviewed on Icelandic public service broadcaster RÚV and stated that "we [the Icelandic State] do not intend to pay the debts of the banks that have been a little heedless". He compared the government's measures to the U.S. intervention at Washington Mutual, and suggested that foreign creditors would "unfortunately only get 5–10–15% of their claims".

From the other wiki article :

In 1991, the Independence Party, led by Davíð Oddsson, formed a coalition government with the Social Democrats. This government set in motion market liberalisation policies, privatising a number of small and large companies.

The British are so evil according to you :

The IMF-led package of $4.6bn was finally agreed on 19 November, with the IMF loaning $2.1bn and another $2.5bn of loans and currency swaps from Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark. In addition, Poland has offered to lend $200M and the Faroe Islands have offered $50M, about 3% of Faroese GDP.[106] The Icelandic government also reported that Russia has offered $300M.[107] The next day, Germany, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom announced a joint loan of $6.3bn (€5bn), related to the deposit insurance dispute

But in reality they were told just as the Dutch that they would not receive any money. Davíð Oddsson seems to be a typical swindler. The British did good. Yet Iceland was helped out in the end anyway by those evil Dutch and Evil Brits.
You must really define a whole new level of insanity, broken record.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I had this one as a kid:

I LOVED it!

I gave something similar to the son of my very good friend.
The little toddler was also very happy
Little kids can be such fun when playing with their toys.
Something adults forget often... I know i did...

 

[Darwin333]

How did Iceland get in such a worse situation ?
The electrical energy is produced with hot water heated because of underground volcanic activity. The hot water is also used for heating and keeping roads ice and snow free.

Iceland captures and exports a lot of fish.

Iceland export aluminum and since they have green electricity at the fraction of the cost when compared to other power plants, processing aluminum ore (bauxite) is cheaper when compared with other countries.

The same way we did, their banks took on way too much leverage.

 

[William Gaatjes]

The same way we did, their banks took on way too much leverage.

Yeah. If i can believe the wikipage, the bolded part is very familiar :

In 2001, banks were deregulated in Iceland.[110] This set the stage for banks to upload debts when foreign companies were accumulated.[110] The crisis unfolded when banks became unable to refinance their debts. It is estimated that the three major banks hold foreign debt in excess of €50 billion,[4] or about €160,000 per Icelandic resident, compared with Iceland's gross domestic product of €8.5 billion.[5][111] As early as March 2008, the cost of private deposit insurance for deposits in Landsbanki and Kaupthing was already far higher (6–8½% of the sum deposited) than for other European banks.[112] The króna, which was ranked by The Economist in early 2007 as the most overvalued currency in the world (based on the Big Mac Index),[113] has further suffered from the effects of carry trading.[114

edit :

Coming from a small domestic market, Iceland's banks have financed their expansion with loans on the interbank lending market and, more recently, by deposits from outside Iceland (which are also a form of external debt). Households also took on a large amount of debt, equivalent to 213% of disposable income, which led to inflation.[115] This inflation was exacerbated by the practice of the Central Bank of Iceland issuing liquidity loans to banks on the basis of newly-issued, uncovered bonds[116] – effectively, printing money on demand.

In response to the rise in prices – 14% in the twelve months to September 2008,[9] compared with a target of 2.5% – the Central Bank of Iceland has held interest rates high (15.5%).[10] Such high interest rates, compared with 5.5% in the United Kingdom or 4% in the eurozone for example, have encouraged overseas investors to hold deposits in Icelandic krónur, leading to monetary inflation: the Icelandic money supply (M3) grew 56.5% in the twelve months to September 2008, compared with 5.0% GDP growth.[117] The situation was effectively an economic bubble, with investors overestimating the true value of the króna.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I hope it will become interesting :

In April 2009, Iceland's state prosecutor hired Eva Joly, the Norwegian-French investigator who led Europe’s biggest ever fraud investigations into bribery and corruption at oil group Elf Aquitaine, as special consultant to a 20-member ”economic crime team” to “investigate suspicions of criminal actions in the period preceding the collapse of the Icelandic banks” which may involve several Iceland's business and banking leaders.[161] Joly stated that the investigation will require a minimum of 2–3 years to build up enough evidence to secure prosecutions.[133]

In an interview Joly stated that:

“Finding proof will start at home in Iceland, but my instinct is that it will spread. If there are things relevant to the UK we will get in touch with the Serious Fraud Office. If there are things relevant to Germany we will get in touch with their authorities. In Iceland, there is more than enough for a starting point for the investigation, given all the talk about market manipulation and unusual loans. If these are proved they are embezzlement and fraud. The priority is tracing any flow of assets from the banks and getting them back.”[133]

The investigation is expected to focus on a number of questionable financial practices engaged in by Icelandic banks:

• Almost half of all the loans made by Icelandic banks were to holdings companies, many of which are connected to those same Icelandic banks.
• Money was allegedly lent by the banks to their employees and associates so they could buy shares in those same banks while simply using those same shares as collateral for the loans. Borrowers were then allowed to defer paying interest on the loan until the end of the period, when the whole amount plus interest accrued was due. These same loans were then allegedly written off days before the banks collapsed.
• Kaupthing allowed a Qatari investor to purchase 5% of its shares. It was later revealled that the Qatari investor “bought” the stake using a loan from Kaupthing itself and a holding company associated with one of its employees (i.e. the bank was, in effect, buying its own shares).[133]

 

[JSt0rm]

I believe that the Icelandic banks were corrupt as any of them but why should the 300k people of iceland be forced to pay $100 a month for 15 years because of these private entities?

In democracy you will never see that happen because people will vote out whatever dumb fuck even thinks of proposing such a thing.

 

[SilthDraeth]

I believe that the Icelandic banks were corrupt as any of them but why should the 300k people of iceland be forced to pay $100 a month for 15 years because of these private entities?

In democracy you will never see that happen because people will vote out whatever dumb fuck even thinks of proposing such a thing.

Because in America, we aren't all forced to pay taxes for life to pay for all the stupid shit our banks have done and the government has bailed out, or worse?

 

[William Gaatjes]

Because in America, we aren't all forced to pay taxes for life to pay for all the stupid shit our banks have done and the government has bailed out, or worse?

Indeed. Just as in most western countries, we in the west do not really have a for the people democracy. We vote in people that tell us that they represent us and our causes. While in reality they also have a personal agenda. Lobbying is the greatest evil and must be abolished from western countries.

 

[JSt0rm]

Because in America, we aren't all forced to pay taxes for life to pay for all the stupid shit our banks have done and the government has bailed out, or worse?

Yes its a shame. Why should we fault iceland for bucking the trend? I think we should bill bush and cheney for the iraq war.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Yes its a shame. Why should we fault iceland for bucking the trend? I think we should bill bush and cheney for the iraq war.

Why not ? Sometimes clarity is needed. Even if it is to late.