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IBM PC Division's Defense Connections

C

carage

Senior member
As you may have known China's Lenovo plan to buy IBM's PC division has been halted by the government awaiting a FEC investigation regarding how such a sale might impact our national security.
While many of the more business or liberal oriented media considers this issue merely a political speed bump, I think other wise, however I need the evidence to convince others.
Does anyone know what types of defense contracts does IBM have or what kinds of technology might be deemed national security issues?
I understand that IBM still builds supercomputers and mainframes for the government, however I am trying to find a substantial link that can establish how these technologies might have connections with the PC division?
Such as it would be great if I can theorize that IBM's PC division obviously was derived from its mainframe computing groups as most of us hardcore users should know the history of PC development.
Or if I could figure out what was IBM's North Carolina Research & Development doing that might be connected to our defense.
All I need is a substantial link suggesting there is a connection beyond reseasonable doubt then I can nail my opponent and end this debate.
Please help if you know anything.
 
Also in the case, that IBM is not allowed to sell of its PC division, what should IBM do?
Can the government do anything about it?
I understand there is a stuate of limitations regarding the government owning private corporations.
If the government can't act, is it possible that we, the citizens, or wealthy patriots form some type of American Patriot Fund to prevent crucial industries being acquired by foreign companies especially those based in potential hostile nations?
 
Originally posted by: charrison
This is likely dealing with possiblity of building clusters for supercomputering purposes.
Click to expand...
Which, while using PC based processors, would NOT use ANY of the attendant software or hardware from their PC division.

 
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: charrison
This is likely dealing with possiblity of building clusters for supercomputering purposes.
Click to expand...
Which, while using PC based processors, would NOT use ANY of the attendant software or hardware from their PC division.
Click to expand...



You can build very nice clusters out of pc hardware. While they could not have the bandwidth of a backplane, gigabit ethernet would work well enough.
 
Originally posted by: charrison
This is likely dealing with possiblity of building clusters for supercomputering purposes.
Click to expand...

I thought about this one too, but I don't have proof.
Here are my initial 4 theories about what might be at stakes, except I don't have any proof.
1. Supercomputer
2. IBM's contract with government workstations, databases, terminals, PCs. Perhaps the government is using a special variant of IBM's OS2 or some special system to monitor. There is still an urban legend surroinding Microsoft's famed NSA key backdoor. If that is true, could it be that IBM OSes have similar features?
3. Encryption algorithms. It would be disasterous if any of the algorithm or keys falling into the hands of any hostile nation.
4. It could be related to distributed computing or clusters. Heck, even the Internet was derived from ARPANET, a military project. Why can't I find something that can prove beyond reasonable doubt that there IS a concern for NATIONAL SECURITY in this case.
 
Originally posted by: carage
Originally posted by: charrison
This is likely dealing with possiblity of building clusters for supercomputering purposes.
Click to expand...

I thought about this one too, but I don't have proof.
Here are my initial 4 theories about what might be at stakes, except I don't have any proof.
1. Supercomputer
2. IBM's contract with government workstations, databases, terminals, PCs. Perhaps the government is using a special variant of IBM's OS2 or some special system to monitor. There is still an urban legend surroinding Microsoft's famed NSA key backdoor. If that is true, could it be that IBM OSes have similar features?
3. Encryption algorithms. It would be disasterous if any of the algorithm or keys falling into the hands of any hostile nation.
4. It could be related to distributed computing or clusters. Heck, even the Internet was derived from ARPANET, a military project. Why can't I find something that can prove beyond reasonable doubt that there IS a concern for NATIONAL SECURITY in this case.
Click to expand...



1. no. THis is about consumer pc hardware.
2. No, The goverment mainly gets dells. And sadly os/2 is dead.
3. No. Pc hardware business here.
4. Clustering is the issue.
 
So clustering is the only issue?
Is ther anything that documents how clustering affects national security?
 
take off the tinfoil hat 😛

it seems like a strictly political move to me. IBM wouldn't have announced it if they had any doubts as to whether or not the sell-off would get approved.
 
Originally posted by: carage
So clustering is the only issue?
Is ther anything that documents how clustering affects national security?
Click to expand...



Large clusters are used for modeling the effects of nuclear wearpons.
 
Originally posted by: loki8481
take off the tinfoil hat 😛

it seems like a strictly political move to me. IBM wouldn't have announced it if they had any doubts as to whether or not the sell-off would get approved.
Click to expand...

Or perhaps someone forgot to pay/bribe the right people...
or they misjudged the current administration's mindset.
 
I just found this.
http://www.universalguardian.com/15-04-04.html
The head of IBM PC's development, Bill Lowe latest job is wth Universal Guardian Holdings, "a provider of integrated homeland security and non-lethal defense solutions".

He was also head of IBM's Entry Systems Division which may have later dissolved into the PC division. Entry Systems?? Hmm...sounds like something to do with data entry systems. Who has a ton of data entry systems? The US government!

He also had a few positions in Xerox and Gulfstream, I love their private jets.

Ha, I think I hit a jackpot with this. I actually bounced this idea off my opponent, I think he is very mad at himself for providing me new fuel for a counterattack.

Although it is not entirely appropriate to link one's past work with his current positions, however it does generate some interesting juice.
 
Originally posted by: charrison
2. No, The goverment mainly gets dells. And sadly os/2 is dead.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't quite go that far. I've got a buddy that makes twice as much as I do because he knows os/2. It's on life support, but not dead.
 
Here is some even more saucy stuff...
I dug up some facts on another person responsible for designing the IBM PC.
Dr. Philip Donald Estridge
http://www.thocp.net/biographies/estridge_don.html
Let's see what did he do prior to developing the IBM PC?
1959
Estridge joined IBM as a junior engineer in Kingston New York and held positions in the Federal Systems Division, participating in the construction of SAGE
What is SAGE? It is an early warning defense system that relief heavily on radar and computers.
1963
Working on the manned and unmanned programming support for NASA /Goddard Space Flight Center
1969
Joined the General Systems Division and from 1975 - 1979 he was series/1- a mini computer - programming manager
1979
Had responsibility for the development of a Series/1 integrated product until 1980
 
I didn't realize IBM pc's had some sort of special hardware that made them especially suitable for clusters?
It's not like China couldn't buy a whole ton of 1U servers from a bunch of different retailers, Chinese or otherwise, if they wanted to build a cluster.

The technology that could be a bit more sensitive is IBM's enterprise stuff(POWER, Blue Gene, etc), but they're keeping that.
 
Well, it seems the DOD and DHS are more concerned with the North Carolina Research Center being used as some kind of espionage center.
Personally, I find that claim to be more absurd than what I am trying to prove.
 
Other than the IBM ESS (http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/think/thinkvantagetech/security.html) that comes standard in most of their newer boxes, I cannot think of anything terribly interesting about IBM's personal computer line. In fact, one gets the impression that they are selling it for just that reason. Sure, IBM has nice build quality(it isn't for nothing that I'm typing this from a Thinkpad); but they are pretty standard in hardware terms. It's all just Intel CPUs, chipsets and NICs, along with ATI GPUs, none of which are exactly state secrets. Also, you're living in the 50's if you think that IBM selling the operation will actually change much. Guess where pretty much all PC hardware is manufactured already? China and Taiwan, mostly. If there is anything interesting about any piece of commodity hardware sold today, the east asian OEMs who manufactured that hardware probably know it already.
 
I understand very well that most of the PC parts come from China and Taiwan OEM manufacturers. I spent over 10 years in Taiwan, and I worked in a chip foundry, so I know that pretty well.
However, I must say giving someone the rights to OEM your parts is not the same as handing over your entire design institute along with all previous patents and technologies.
Offering a sandwich usually doesn't include the whole kitchen.
IBM is selling off a kitchen.
 
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