i7, Upgrade, wtfshould I do, etc

Axon

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2003
2,541
1
76
Hello all,

I need a bit of advice in determining what exactly I should do with my rig. I have the following system:

E8500 @ 3.4 ghz under an Arctic Cooler Pro 7
ASUS Rampage Formula
XFX Radeon 4890 stock cooler and speed
4 Gigs DDR2 Corsair RAM
WD Caviar Black 640 gig HDD
Silverstone Strider 700w PSU

I play games at 1900x1200.

I would say, overall, I find my system satisfactory. There are occasional hiccups when I push things, but generally it is fine for surfing, e-mail, video stuff, etc.

I also have an occasional issue while playing WoW (screen hiccups - I actually have to turn settings down to get the game to run smooth) and some other games, like TF2, COD:WaW, and especially, Empire: Total War.

Essentially, I want my rig to run those games at or near max and not struggle with the more than "occasional" hiccup during gaming, which I just find frustrating as hell. My options are:

1. Upgrade the bottleneck CPU and RAM without replacing the Motherboard (e.g., get a Q9550 or 9650 and some new RAM)

2. Go all in for an i7 setup and essentially be left with an arbitrary machine (not the worst thing in the world).

What I'm really concerned about is all these waves I'm hearing about Intel phasing out the i7/1366. I don't want to be left with a dead socket when I get the upgrade itch again in like a year. Is it worth it to go i7, or should I just stick with the high-end Quad CPU? Is the i7 a dying platform? I know they're going i5, but from what I saw that chip was inferior, no?

Please advise. :D
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,009
65
91
I have a similar sitation as you..Many have advised me to get a quad..liek a Q9550 which should be fine for a while. In a year or so there will prob. be some 32 nm out or atleast something better/comparable to i7. If I were you.. I wouldnt waste all yur money on an i7 right now. but thats just me..
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
If you upgrade just the CPU then you'll at least know from that point onwards whether that was all you needed for now.

Meaning that if the cpu upgrade doesn't net you the oomph you need then you could at least sell your rig (cpu/mobo/ram at minumum) to net you back some cash towards your i7 rig while knowing for sure you need to step up to an entirely new platform (so you don't ever have that nagging feeling in your mind whether you needed to spend the money on an i7).

It is unlikely that LGA1366 is going to go away, Intel has plans to keep it going at least thru the 32nm node. (gulftown)

Realize that LGA1366 is not dependent on desktop market, it is a desktop product which is a byproduct of the server segment (single socket and dual-socket Nehalem xeons are LGA1366)...so this is the driving force behind continuing the LGA1366 roadmap thru 32nm, if not beyond.

Personally, were I in your shoes, I'd upgrade the rig to quadcore chip before spending all the money on an i7 rig.
 

imported_Shaq

Senior member
Sep 24, 2004
731
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0
If you really like WOW you need an i7 as it can use all 8 threads. Or wait for an i5. Or is it still an i7 if it has hyperthreading? lol A 1156 socket i7 I think it is. And 1366 has an upgrade path to a 32nm 6 core/12 thread CPU next year. The 1156 socket won't. It will be a dead end. The current Core 2 Quads will only save you $125-$150 or so and of course you can't upgrade those either. And if you want SLI/XFire you should only be considering a current 1366 i7.
 
Nov 26, 2005
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I thought this was a trick question after reading all the responses that never mentioned overclocking your e8500. omg its true, an e8500 @ 3.4Ghz

people people people tisk tisk. the most cost effective (ok, third time i read it) .. the most cost effective thing you can do is overclock the hell out of that chip

that seems to obvious, so my question is; What is holding you back from overclocking it - let me guess, you dont' think it'll help. Man, save your pocket and it atleast find out first. An 8500 with a 9.5 multi... does math ... even if you have DDR2 800 that's 3800Mhz...
 

Lean L

Diamond Member
Apr 30, 2009
3,685
0
0
you can save yourself the headachs by sending me the money you are planning to spend. I'll even send you pics of my new upgrade to keep you amused.
 

sgrinavi

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2007
4,537
0
76
Personally I think the I7-920 (d0) is probably one of the best CPUs to ever come from Intel. I went from a q9550 at 3.8 on a rampage board to the rig in my sig and I am one happy camper. I use my system for modeling and rendering and am getting better than 2x the rendering rates AND a much better experience manipulating geometry.

As for your current rig, I would crank that puppy up a hair before I made my final decision - my E8600 ran at 4.0 undervolted.....
 

TemjinGold

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2006
3,050
65
91
Your hiccups will likely be better addressed by upgrading your HARD DRIVE, not your cpu/ram. Invest in some good SSDs and you should see a much better return.
 

Axon

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2003
2,541
1
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Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
I thought this was a trick question after reading all the responses that never mentioned overclocking your e8500. omg its true, an e8500 @ 3.4Ghz

people people people tisk tisk. the most cost effective (ok, third time i read it) .. the most cost effective thing you can do is overclock the hell out of that chip

that seems to obvious, so my question is; What is holding you back from overclocking it - let me guess, you dont' think it'll help. Man, save your pocket and it atleast find out first. An 8500 with a 9.5 multi... does math ... even if you have DDR2 800 that's 3800Mhz...

Yeah, you're right, I should push the envelope. I am not the most experienced overclocker, so I've always been hesitant to really push a chip.

 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,009
65
91
Check the guide for more tips. Basically though, just increase .1 Ghz to your OC every day or so. Do this in the morning and then at night run prime 95 until the next day. Just keep repeating til you get an error from stability probs. If this happens..try adding a *small* voltage inc. or back off your OC. You may also ened to back off ram timings as well if they are linked to cpu.
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,310
687
126
LGA1366 won't die. Well, eventually it will but not anytime soon. It's used for 1P/2P server systems and server people aren't very tolerant of socket changes. (note however physically same sockets do not always guarantee seemless upgrades, especially on desktop systems)

If you're interested and have time/money, then why not? Upgrade and let us know.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
20,905
3,292
126
Originally posted by: lopri
(note however physically same sockets do not always guarantee seemless upgrades, especially on desktop systems)

enterprise parts are more and more being compatable with consumer.

Like there are Xeons that work fine in our X58 boards, and that overclock like champs.

ie. W3520, W3540, W3570 (unlocked multi), W3580 (another unlocked multi).


(i will preview a W3570 soon).
 
Nov 26, 2005
15,180
396
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Originally posted by: TemjinGold
Your hiccups will likely be better addressed by upgrading your HARD DRIVE, not your cpu/ram. Invest in some good SSDs and you should see a much better return.

With Crysis that is correct. Anandtech said your bottom out fps will reduce from 15 to a low of 30 which is an increase - just from an SSD drive
 

RaptureMe

Senior member
Jan 18, 2007
552
0
0
Just ditch that setup on ebay or something and grab yourself a nice shiney Core i7.
I7 920 are getting within every ones buying price.
Also if you are looking at getting those high setting on crysis why not upgrade you grafx card aswell??
 

McRhea

Senior member
Apr 2, 2001
221
0
0
Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
I thought this was a trick question after reading all the responses that never mentioned overclocking your e8500. omg its true, an e8500 @ 3.4Ghz

people people people tisk tisk. the most cost effective (ok, third time i read it) .. the most cost effective thing you can do is overclock the hell out of that chip

that seems to obvious, so my question is; What is holding you back from overclocking it - let me guess, you dont' think it'll help. Man, save your pocket and it atleast find out first. An 8500 with a 9.5 multi... does math ... even if you have DDR2 800 that's 3800Mhz...

+1 to this comment.

Push that chip to 4.0+ Ghz man, you'll be able to get it to at least 4.0Ghz fairly easily. You have an artic cooler pro man... Use it!

I have a E8400 that I'm running at 4.0Ghz (9x445) with a VERY minor voltage tweak (1.264v up from the default 1.250v). It stays in the 40-42C range under full load (Prime 95 test). Here's my heatsink (Xigmatek). It's practically the same as yours.

Also, OC the 4890 using the Overdrive tools in the CCC. You should be able to get to 900Core and 1100 memory at least. Higher if you're lucky. I have mine OC'd to 925/1100 without messing with the voltage on the GPU, and that gets me 5 to 8% or higher FPS (depending on the game).

For comparision, I run TF2 (full 32 player server with all sorts of custom maps) and Cod:W@W at 1920x1200 with full AA/AF and max settings (Coop, Zombie mode, and Multiplayer). Never experienced any slowdowns or hiccups in those games. Crysis at max settings with 4xAA or 8xAA is the only thing that makes my system cry, all other games are gravy smooth. Crysis at max settings with 2xAA is very smooth however, even at 1920x1200 with maxed settings.

Make sure your hard drive is defragmented and that the partition with Windows has enough drive space to do its thing (the windows partition should be at least 50% free).

WoW is very CPU dependent though, so if the hiccups in that game really drive you nuts, then you may be better off getting a Quad or an i7. I haven't read anything about Empire:TW being CPU dependent, so I'll leave that topic to someone else.
 

Eureka

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
3,822
1
81
There's no reason to upgrade to a quad core unless you have to. Most games will see very little performance boosts from a quad core upgrade. Usually the boost that people see is that they're upgrading to a faster quad core, its raw speed that does the trick. And from what I've seen the E8x00 serises are very capable OC'ers. If you want to really see how much of a boost you'll get:

http://www.overclockersclub.co...iews/intel_e8400/8.htm
http://www.overclockersclub.co...ews/intel_e8400/11.htm

Your CPU is not the major bottleneck.

However if you have to jump, make the jump to an i7 920. Moving to a quadcore will give you modest results, not worth the price IMO.
 

Axon

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2003
2,541
1
76
Thanks all. I'm going to push the chip tonight, see what I can do with it.
 
Nov 26, 2005
15,180
396
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A simple 400fsb will bring 3.8Ghz If you have stability problems there are a few areas which you want to dabble with. Vcore, PLL, VTT, Northbridge voltage. If you get any stability problems, I'd start off with upping the NB to maybe around 1.3v ~1.34v Lets back up. You will want to us Prime95 Large FFT testing to test your memory subsystem or in-part, the NB. One full sweep at the default time to test your systems stability will take roughly 9hrs and 45 min. Generally you test by trial and error with what voltage needs increments. 3.8Ghz on an E0 Wolfdale will generally not take much more vcore over the stock VID.
 

Axon

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2003
2,541
1
76
Right. I messed with it last night and I found some weird issue with Windows 7 - CPUID was not showing my chip at anything beyond stock despite being set at 400 FSB, but when I would boot the machine, it would say E8550 @ 3.16 Speed: 3.8ghz. The Rampage Formula MOBO has a lot of little annoying settings that I don't fully understand...
 

McRhea

Senior member
Apr 2, 2001
221
0
0
This may not have anything to do with your issue, but there is a slim chance it'll help.

In the BIOS, do you have the "A:" diskette drive disabled? Even if you do not have a 3.5 floppy disk drive in your comp, try enabling that option in the BIOS and then see if CPU-z reports the correct speed on your chip.

I had to do that on my Asus A8N-E mobo in order for the OC to show up correctly in Windows 7.


Like BTRY says above, bump your FSB to 400 and leave everything else at default. You shouldn't need to bump your CPU voltage for that... That should get you to 3.8Ghz easily, so you can test and see if your system is any smoother. Make sure you set your RAM timings through the BIOS as well. Tell us your RAM specs (link to it is best).
 

Axon

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2003
2,541
1
76
Originally posted by: McRhea
This may not have anything to do with your issue, but there is a slim chance it'll help.

In the BIOS, do you have the "A:" diskette drive disabled? Even if you do not have a 3.5 floppy disk drive in your comp, try enabling that option in the BIOS and then see if CPU-z reports the correct speed on your chip.

I had to do that on my Asus A8N-E mobo in order for the OC to show up correctly in Windows 7.


Like BTRY says above, bump your FSB to 400 and leave everything else at default. You shouldn't need to bump your CPU voltage for that... That should get you to 3.8Ghz easily, so you can test and see if your system is any smoother. Make sure you set your RAM timings through the BIOS as well. Tell us your RAM specs (link to it is best).

I'll try this tonight. Not certain if the A: drive is enabled or not. In terms of boot process, no, it isn't.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820145184 is my RAM.
 

Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
6,374
1
81
Originally posted by: Eureka
There's no reason to upgrade to a quad core unless you have to. Most games will see very little performance boosts from a quad core upgrade. Usually the boost that people see is that they're upgrading to a faster quad core, its raw speed that does the trick. And from what I've seen the E8x00 serises are very capable OC'ers. If you want to really see how much of a boost you'll get:

http://www.overclockersclub.co...iews/intel_e8400/8.htm
http://www.overclockersclub.co...ews/intel_e8400/11.htm

Your CPU is not the major bottleneck.

However if you have to jump, make the jump to an i7 920. Moving to a quadcore will give you modest results, not worth the price IMO.

The overclockersclub site is totally unreliable:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?b=50

look at the i7920 vs. q9550 vs. e8400 vs. phII x4 955; then compare to an e2160.