Discussion i7-11700K preliminary results

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lobz

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2017
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Mindfactory is really geared towards AMD sales. Heck, even if you click on CPUs, you get two big clickable links at the top to choose from (A) AMD or (B) Gigabyte:
Intel chips are an afterthought for Mindfactory. So, I'm hopeful that retail prices are better elsewhere. But, that hope is fading.

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Dude, you're embarrassing yourself. The first thing you've highlighted is the part of a clickable banner, introducing rebate actions, which is constantly changing between 5 different versions. I live here in Germany and if you click on Hardware -> CPUs, it definitely shows AMD and Intel and I have no idea how you produced that bug, but it also holds no significance, as the people who actually _can_ buy hardware off of this website are German people and they see the correct banner. So NO, it's not geared towards AMD.
 
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TheELF

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2012
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Dude, you're embarrassing yourself. The first thing you've highlighted is the part of a clickable banner, introducing rebate actions, which is constantly changing between 5 different versions. I live here in Germany and if you click on Hardware -> CPUs, it definitely shows AMD and Intel and I have no idea how you produced that bug, but it also holds no significance, as the people who actually _can_ buy hardware off of this website are German people and they see the correct banner. So NO, it's not geared towards AMD.
There are constantly articles about how amd outsells intel and they are all exclusively about mindfactory, so it's pretty fair to say that they are geared towards selling amd.
 
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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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Isn't that just because they're one of the only places that publishes their sales data?
(1) Yes, they are one of the only places that publishes sales data.
(2) But, they also have consistently good AMD prices and consistently bad Intel prices over time. Yes, occasional sales in Intel prices are okay. But I'm talking about long term trends.

Those are not mutually exclusive points.

I posted better intel prices in Germany at other German sites a few posts above. I'll use the same sites for AMD chips. Here are current AMD 5800X prices with Mindfactory significantly cheaper:
How about one of Mindfactory's best sellers, the 3600 with Mindfactory significantly cheaper:
Could keep going on and on, day after day, but I doubt people will believe actual links with actual prices here because they often have ulterior motives.
 
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B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
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I remember getting OEM machines with those naked, green motherboards and tin can looking PSUs. The sticker on the case was all I cared about: 466Mhz! Regarding the 11 series pricing, I'm thinking they might not be able to get away with too much because right now the 5800X is actually in stock at Newegg for $450. By the end of next month I'd expect supply to only get better, so the 11 series will have to contend with the 5800X. The 5800X already has the label of being the fastest 8 core on the market, so prices are always high at the top. Anything in the 11 series performing at 5800X levels will cost as much or more. If the 11900K is reasonably faster, then it will cost a LOT more, naturally.
The point is this: who cares? I still think most people will just buy a 10700K or Ryzen 3000 series if they need a new CPU. It's half the price of these newer ones and they aren't fast enough to justify paying TWICE the money. Twice the price for same number of cores and similar performance. Faster yeah, but it's still similar performance. If people argued for AMD being the better value in the past because the performance was almost as good but price was way better, then that argument holds true now for the 5800X and the 11 series. TOO EXPENSIVE. Knock it off. It's too much. 8 cores are common now in the market at low prices. $450-600 is stoopid.

The thing most people forget when talking about price is the competition in the bracket. And the fact people want 5700X CPU's at 3700X prices.

For the money, a 5800X is better than a 10900K and X570 is a better platform.



Zen2 is the budget option right now because Zen3 does not have the lower end parts out.

Intel Z490 1200 boards are overpriced compared to a decent B550 board or budget X570, and IMO, an inferior platform.


Better off skipping a K series 1200 Z490 setup and get a 10700 and budget board.

11900K and siblings is the new 5775C, Intel got to release something to put in the investor notes during a quarterly update.
 

gdansk

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2011
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I might end up "upgrading" to the 8-core i9-11900K just for the PCIe 4.0 feature.

Why not wait for Alder Lake then? Or you want to reuse the same motherboard?
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,480
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Ok, I don't have any evidence you're lying or would lie, so I will take your word for it.

Since I believe your claim that it's a historical trend, we can assume their intel prices were also bad in 2017/2018. Despite mindfactory's extortionate intel pricing, people didn't seem to mind shopping there when intel's products were more attractive.

You could certainly say that german/euro specific figures aren't directly applicable globally, but I don't think it's valid to use pricing as a reason to discount the accuracy of their data for the local market.
What does historical AMD/Intel ratios have anything to do with the subject? The subject is pricing. You might have noticed, but AMD chips have gotten a lot better over the recent years. Much better than Intel chips in many applications. That has a strong impact on why more AMD chips are sold--there would be a strong shift towards more AMD chips. That still has nothing to do with Mindfactory's pricing AMD chips better than they price Intel's chips.

I also said nothing about making them directly applicable globally, nothing about discounting the accuracy of their data either (I have to assume their data is correct because I have no reason to disbelieve them nor evidence against their data). Those are your words. I said that they have great AMD pricing. I also said that I won't trust their pre-launch and even pre-review Intel pricing on the 11700K until I see more data on final pricing. Why does this seem to bother you so much?

I say this as I type on an AMD Ryzen 5 Pro 2400GE.
 
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pj-

Senior member
May 5, 2015
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What does historical AMD/Intel ratios have anything to do with the subject? The subject is pricing. You might have noticed, but AMD chips have gotten a lot better over the recent years. Much better than Intel chips in many applications. That has a strong impact on why more AMD chips are sold--there would be a strong shift towards more AMD chips. That still has nothing to do with Mindfactory's pricing AMD chips better than they price Intel's chips.

I also said nothing about making them directly applicable globally, nothing about discounting the accuracy of their data either (I have to assume their data is correct because I have no reason to disbelieve them nor evidence against their data). Those are your words. I said that they have great AMD pricing. I also said that I won't trust their pre-launch and even pre-review Intel pricing on the 11700K until I see more data on final pricing. Why does this seem to bother you so much?

I say this as I type on an AMD Ryzen 5 Pro 2400GE.

i guess I need to clarify the sequence of events..

My first post in this thread was here where I offered an explanation of why mindfactory is always mentioned in articles about AMD outselling Intel

You quoted my response with this:
(1) Yes, they are one of the only places that publishes sales data.
(2) But, they also have consistently good AMD prices and consistently bad Intel prices over time. Yes, occasional sales in Intel prices are okay. But I'm talking about long term trends.

Were you not saying, based on the context of you quoting me, that because of mindfactory's bad intel pricing, their statistics regarding marketshare would be inaccurate? If not, why quote me at all?
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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He's not lying, he's just clueless and he's making broad general statements backed with from a single day when he writes his comments. That's what I call having an agenda.
My agenda is always the truth. My offer is still out there. If anyone wants to seriously look into it, lets together make a tracking thread. Each one of us choose a day of the week and we'll update the thread with German CPU prices from German companies. I'll even let you choose the CPUs to track and method of proof (links, images, or just trust the posters with numbers, etc). Any takers?

I chose Thursday, apparently, when doing post #45. https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/i7-11700k-preliminary-results.2591301/post-40453704
 

Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
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My agenda is always the truth. My offer is still out there. If anyone wants to seriously look into it, lets together make a tracking thread. Each one of us choose a day of the week and we'll update the thread with German CPU prices from German companies. I'll even let you choose the CPUs to track and method of proof (links, images, or just trust the posters with numbers, etc). Any takers?

I chose Thursday, apparently, when doing post #45. https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/i7-11700k-preliminary-results.2591301/post-40453704

As someone reading this from the outside I will take the word of the guy living in Germany the rest of this is just unnecessary work. Just accept the L and move on.
 

SKORPI0

Lifer
Jan 18, 2000
18,429
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Why not wait for Alder Lake then? Or you want to reuse the same motherboard?
Yes, use the same Gigabyte Z490 Vision D system which I built early Sept 2020 to upgrade from a Asus X79 Sabertooth (2012). :D
Or maybe you're right, wait end of year for Alder Lake, the LGA 1700 mobo and DDR5.
 
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B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
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My agenda is always the truth. My offer is still out there. If anyone wants to seriously look into it, lets together make a tracking thread. Each one of us choose a day of the week and we'll update the thread with German CPU prices from German companies. I'll even let you choose the CPUs to track and method of proof (links, images, or just trust the posters with numbers, etc). Any takers?

I chose Thursday, apparently, when doing post #45. https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/i7-11700k-preliminary-results.2591301/post-40453704

If you really are dead set on what ever this is, PC Park Picker tracks historical prices, for the USA anyway.

Here is the AMD Ryzen 5 3600 over 2 years.


The USA seems to run on weekly sales with weekend specials. See the Newegg Tusday / Friday e-mails, Micro Center weekend sales.

Maybe people that live / have lived in Germany can espouse on the CPU sales / specials patterns they have seen in a different thread?


For thread posterity, 11900K et al would be more exciting to me if it was on a smaller node :grimacing:
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,535
613
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Pretty pointless launch. It's not clear who the target market for this is, as it's inferior for both games and productivity. They may as well have cancelled these and just keep selling the Comet Lakes, which are still good at their current prices.
 

uzzi38

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 2019
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Now now guys, there are still BIOS updates left to come that will hopefully improve performance.

But I have to be honest. This is pretty underwhelming. I wonder how much can actually change in this next month too.
 

Timorous

Golden Member
Oct 27, 2008
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Now now guys, there are still BIOS updates left to come that will hopefully improve performance.

But I have to be honest. This is pretty underwhelming. I wonder how much can actually change in this next month too.

Ian said in the Reddit thread that he was using the latest beta BIOS from the motherboard supplier and the supplier did not know when the next BIOS from Intel is due.

We know it can make a difference because look at OG Zen from the launch BIOS to a few months later, not sure that much will change between now and the official launch though.

I think the interesting thing to look at from the likes of GN etc will be how much tuned memory affects performance and if RL has more memory tuning headroom then Zen 3.
 
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uzzi38

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 2019
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Ian said in the Reddit thread that he was using the latest beta BIOS from the motherboard supplier and the supplier did not know when the next BIOS from Intel is due.

We know it can make a difference because look at OG Zen from the launch BIOS to a few months later, not sure that much will change between now and the official launch though.

I think the interesting thing to look at from the likes of GN etc will be how much tuned memory affects performance and if RL has more memory tuning headroom then Zen 3.

Yeah, I just saw that now too.

Well.

Erm.

That's shockingly disappointing. I genuinely don't know what to say if OEMs aren't sure Intel will fix the buggy microcode before launch. That actually kinda sucks for day one reviews.

But at the same time, it's also totally deserved with marketing trying to push a Q1 launch way too much.
 

moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
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Now now guys, there are still BIOS updates left to come that will hopefully improve performance.
Will a microcode update be able to lower L3 cache latency from ~51 back to ~43 cycles?
That change astonished me the most. AMD was fighting high latency in its Ryzen CPUs all these times. Now Intel voluntarily gives up this advantage?
 

UsandThem

Elite Member
May 4, 2000
16,068
7,380
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Ouch.

If I were building a system right now, I'd go with an AMD CPU (now that they are finally producing enough for the retail channel to end the scalping), or go with the 10th gen Comet Lake and save the money since they aren't really behind the 11th gen in much of anything.
 

Timorous

Golden Member
Oct 27, 2008
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Ouch.

If I were building a system right now, I'd go with an AMD CPU (now that they are finally producing enough for the retail channel to end the scalping), or go with the 10th gen Comet Lake and save the money since they aren't really behind the 11th gen in much of anything.

The 10850K is looking to be a really good all rounder.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,552
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Ouch.

If I were building a system right now, I'd go with an AMD CPU (now that they are finally producing enough for the retail channel to end the scalping), or go with the 10th gen Comet Lake and save the money since they aren't really behind the 11th gen in much of anything.
Are they going to produce 11th-Gen (True 11th-Gen, with the Xe graphics) Celeron/Pentium Gold CPUs? Because those might have some value for desktop work and online video-watching/HTPC applications.

The reason is, finally, with 11th-Gen, Intel will now support 4K UHD @ 60Hz, over HDMI2.0, rather than limited to 4K UHD @ 30Hz over HDMI 1.4 (*) like 10th-Gen ("Gen 9 iGPU") and below. (*) Speaking strictly of the HDMI output, which is the most commonly-used, I believe. Intel CPUs older than 11th-Gen could do 4K UHD @ 60Hz over DisplayPort, but who has a TV that takes DP?

Edit: I picked up this bit of info, reading the detailed mobo specs for 500-series chipset mobos with HDMI output ports on Newegg.
 
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