Discussion i7-11700K preliminary results

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zir_blazer

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2013
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Thats was because they have been launching the same thing since 2015 just refined. Now with RL being a new Arch they don't have that luxury anymore.
Is not a new architecture if you consider than Ice Lake was released on Mobile almost 2 years ago. Rocket Lake would be the second or third iteration of Ice Lake depending on whenever you count it as before or after Tiger Lake, and maybe fourth if you consider the cancelled Palm Cove.
 

Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
4,804
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Is not a new architecture if you consider than Ice Lake was released on Mobile almost 2 years ago. Rocket Lake would be the second or third iteration of Ice Lake depending on whenever you count it as before or after Tiger Lake, and maybe fourth if you consider the cancelled Palm Cove.

Technically you are correct but understand what I meant in my post.
 

moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
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It's the first iteration of it on 14nm. Which makes it the first new core design on 14nm since Skylake in 2015. May well be they don't have the staff anymore for debugging 14nm designs, 10nm and 7nm sure need them all in any case. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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For the record Mindfactory started selling and shipping 11700Ks at 480 Euros - 60 Euros above the 5800X.

So yes, while it most definitely is pricing from a month before launch, at the same time, it was very clearly the price MF were planning on selling them at some point.
Seems like as soon as the chip is actually released, Mindfactory is selling it for 409 Euros.
That is why I said to take their initial pre-launch prices with a grain of salt.
 

itsmydamnation

Platinum Member
Feb 6, 2011
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Palm Cove is Cannonlake so that's not related to Icelake at all. Cannonlake is barely better than Skylake. Even regresses according to AT.
Wasn't that just POS memory, in that laptop im pretty sure it was actually about 5-7% better, which is what i like to point out everytime someone thinks skylake to icelake was an amazing uplift :) .
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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This is their Comet Lake pricing.

And sorry, but AMD bias? Really? Come on man, it's a retailer.
Compare their AMD pricing over time to other retailers. It is usually a very good price. Then do the same to Intel's chips. Not a good value. There are sales here and there. But no one would go to Mindfactory just for an Intel chip unless they got a sale on another component and only wanted one order.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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What're you talking about? Their Zen 3 pricing quite closely matches what we have here with retailers such as ScanUK, and their Comet Lake pricing right there is right on par with other retailers.
You linked their Intel sales prices, which are decent. But, still not as good as the other German sites:

Their non-sales Intel prices are not even remotely good. If you want value, it is pretty simple, you wouldn't shop Mindfactory for Intel parts.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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You keep talking about long term trends but then give current prices..

Do you have any links that demonstrate these long term trends or are we to take your word for it?
You'll have to take my word for it. I've been following prices for years. Of course, you won't take my word for it and you won't take current prices either. That is your choice to ignore facts. Could you please tell me why you are unhappy with this data (not why you are unhappy with the messenger)? Do you want to join me in making a thread that tracks the prices over time?

Mindfactory sells lots of AMD chips, they buy in larger bulk prices, and get better deals. That is not true of Intel chips. Mindfactory buys and sells small quantities of Intel chips and does not get as good of bulk pricing.
 
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scineram

Senior member
Nov 1, 2020
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avx 512 is just a mill weight around intel's neck.

They just need to drop that already. Those engineers likely could do amazing things with the freed up die space.
Ayye. I wish AMD just added a third fully independent AVX2 pipeline for consoomer Zen 3, instead of AVX-512. Just look at brutal M1 FPU perf.
 
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Dave2150

Senior member
Jan 20, 2015
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I don't really see that happening based on the AT review of the 11700K. There isn't enough clock speed headroom left and the increased latency seems to be a bigger hit to overall gaming performance than the increased IPC is able to compensate for. If you compare the results it looks like this:

Title / CPU5800X11700K10700K9900KS
Deus Ex MD (600p)269.8217.4211.8214.5
FF XIV (768p)315.0212.1216.1235.2
FF XV (720p)220.3199.0179.9186.8
World of Tanks (768p)733.8692.4707.0697.7
Borderlands 3 (360p)214.9172.6163.6175.9
F1 2019 (768p)384.7291.6291.6316.5
Far Cry 5 (720p)188.3178.3169.8181.5
Gears Tactics (720p)389.2310.9309.9306.2
GTA 5 (720p)180.8176.2175.4176.7
RDR 2 (384p)190.7149.8157.4167.1
Strange Brigade (720p)637.2435.5463.1513.3

Moving to 1080p or beyond leads to a GPU bottleneck in most titles in which case there isn't much of a gap between any of the CPUs and there are even a few cases where one of the Intel CPUs will wind up on top, but those are almost always within a margin of error. The 1080p Max quality benchmarks have the CPUs clumped up together in almost every title to the point where there's no difference what you go with, but in most cases the 11700K is still at the bottom.

The AVX results suggest that the i9 probably has some room left if it could draw up to say 275W in non-AVX workloads, but this thin is already pretty close to the edge and the increased clocks really only get it to where the 9900KS is already at. It's impressive that Intel has been able to push 14nm as far as they have, but I don't think an extra ~3% clock speed or any firmware tweaks are going to change what we're seeing now in a substantial way.

At stock, we already know the i9 will retake the gaming performance crown:

a4ANX3Z.jpg
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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I'm not really sure if they can improve the supply, at least not if both Sony and Microsoft have any kind of options for wafer priority. Their demand is through the roof so they obviously want to manufacture as many consoles as possible and the reports were that in the lead up to launch they were estimated to be collectively using somewhere around 75% of the wafers that AMD had at TSMC.

The 5800x has generally been in stock the whole time because it's the least desirable of the CPUs. For gamers it doesn't offer that much more than the 5600x for it's price and for anyone who wants more cores, the 5900x isn't that much of a step-up in price for what you get. Even if these newest chips from Intel aren't the best, they're still going to sell out of them just because they're good enough and actually available.
 

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
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Did you read the article NDA was not broken.

The review sample they have from intel will be published on the 30th.
They don't need to publish that anymore. Is the retail chip different from the chip Intel sent them? The retail chip is what everyone's going to get. If they want to review the 11700k on a different motherboard then they should title it as such. As far as I'm concerned, they've already taken their due bite out of the RKL-S review cake.
 
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CHADBOGA

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2009
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Yes, Rocket Lake does show a nice bump across every version of Cinebench tested compared to Comet Lake. Unfortunately the 5800X still beats it in every single Cinebench version, both ST and MT. So to answer your question, no, Cinebench is still the same benchmark it was last week.
My point is why does Cinebench R20 single core score improve by 11% over the 10700K, but either regress or have a much smaller performance increase in so many other applications when you compare the 11700K to the 10700K?
 

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
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Timorous: sold does not mean shipped out to customer. They could have shipped just a dozen or two of those, before they they realised that they did a mistake.

Zucker2k: your whole post is emotionally charged. Why is it so?
Au contraire. Just trying to drive home my points. That's all.
 

majord

Senior member
Jul 26, 2015
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I just feel this is an indicator of the sort of shallow / clinical relationship Anandtech has with Intel, and possibly the others vendors these days. This is not some random back of the net tech site posting something up early. It's Anandtech. signing the NDA should just be a formality for a site of this nature.. Vendors should almost be able to not even bother with it, and assume they'll respect the Embargo.,

Anand had a way of calling a spade a spade, publishing unsanctioned previews, just generally doing things his way (no doubt at the frustration of certain vendors at times) , but all the while still managed to hold a solid relationship with them. They respected, and were incredibly open with him regardless. Took a certain level of tact to pull that off. And he did it effortlessly. The SB previewing being an example of that.

This RL review just is not IMO, ditto Intel's lack of Comment.

I don't think there's anything as Dramatic as what Zucker is going on about however.. I wouldn't read that much into the lack of comment. And 'Sanctioned reviews' .. Err no. They can stick them.
 
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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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Indeed. So what's with the FUD about power consumption.
Power consumption isn't a simple statistic. Yet, reviewers and readers usually tend to try to use just one single number for a complex discussion. CPU power consumption depends on workload, cooling system, power supply, time since the start of heavy work, room temperature, etc. All those things can't be boiled down to something like "125 W". A much more accurate description might be:

"Up to 300 W for up to 56 seconds, in a AVX-512 workload, and assuming the default heat sink was removed and replaced with a much more powerful cooling system, and the CPU was put into a performance oriented motherboard, otherwise up to 125W."​
The FUD comes from when people look at that complex statement and only happen to mention "300 W" or only mention "125 W" in a forum post while ignoring the rest.
 
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dmens

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2005
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Says a dude who has proven his incompetence time and time again. Last time being this preciuos gem of incompetence in this very thread:



And btw, inter core communications have EVERYTHING to do with L3 latency. No need to push your incompetence an inch further.

EDIT: did some testing:

10900K 4.7Ghz uncore:

Local Socket L2->L2 HIT latency 21.2
Local Socket L2->L2 HITM latency 24.0

10900K 4,3Ghz uncore:

Local Socket L2->L2 HIT latency 23.4
Local Socket L2->L2 HITM latency 26.0

Nice one, cutting out the part of my post where I state that you can simply inspect clock ratios and timings to exclude all the FUD you have been pushing about the BIOS. Unless you actually think the BIOS settings can have an effect on memory speeds even with apples-to-apples control register settings. Well... I won't put anything past you at this point.

And obviously L3 latency is related to core movement latency. But it is your statement regarding inter-core data movement time being much higher than L3 access latency as "making little sense" is just laughable and ignorant... as if the entire process of maintaining cache coherency and moving data is just thrown out the window.

When are you going to stop with this FUD and apologize on behalf of your friends over on the Intel speculation/rumormongering/tealeaf reading thread on just being utterly and totally wrong about Rocketlake?
 

dmens

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2005
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Nice moving of goal posts :) just like with instructions, uCode and now L3 latency not impacting HIT/HITM latencies FUD :)

Anyway i am here not to fight some random dude on the internet, but rather to point out that Anandtech inter-core test is still having problems with Rocket Lake, ones it should not have.

Find a post of me saying cache latency does not affect core-to-core data time. Until then, feel free to continue to wallow in your own ignorance.

By the way, how many AVX-512 instruction schedulers have you worked on? I designed two. One of them from scratch. Both were totally failed projects, but hey, that still counts more than whatever you have done (zero). I basically doxxed myself to a few dozen people with that statement but it isn't like I will degrade myself by going back to Intel at this point, LOL.