i5 2500k won't overclock properly

[fishingcat]

Background: I've had an i5 2500k for the last 18 months. It's never overclocked particularly well (never been able to break 4.4ghz, even at 1.35-1.4V VCore) but it's been working fine at 4.4ghz for around a year.

Today I moved my computer into a new case (Fractal Design Arc Midi) and all of a sudden I can't boot into Windows with my overclock. Even 4.2ghz at 1.35V didn't work, so right now I'm running at 4.0ghz on auto (which seems to be using around 1.25V VCore).

Can anyone suggest why this might have happened and if there's anything I can do to fix it?

Specs:

i5 2500k

Gigabyte Z68X-UD3P-B3 (BIOS Version F8)

8Gb Corsair Vengeance 1600mhz DDR3

 

[Kenmitch]

Swapping cases shouldn't cause your issue. Double check your connections for power, usb's, front panel, etc. Maybe reseat your memory while your at it just in case. Make sure you don't have any unused stand offs under your motherboard while your at it.

As far as your original overclocking failures go it's possible that you have a bad chip or didn't fiddle around enough with it.

Which memory slots are you using currently? Below quote shown from your manual.

For optimum performance, when enabling Dual Channel mode with two memory modules, we recommend that you install them in the DDR3_1 and DDR3_2 sockets.

Looking at the motherboard this would be the 2nd and 4th slots from the cpu. Not sure why but seems like this is the norm now when running 2 sticks.

 

[fishingcat]

I realize that swapping cases shouldn't have changed anything (Arc Midi is wonderful though), but when I went to turn my PC back on it bootlooped until I turned down the clock speed. I can't fathom why I'm suddenly unable to reach my previous stable clocks.

That's an interesting point about the RAM. I've been using the two slots closest to the CPU (it seemed logical), which actually caused my Hyper 212+ to press up against the closest stick. I'll try moving them to the recommended positions.

 

[Kenmitch]

Running your memory in two side by side slots doesn't allow dual channel support at all. It's possible this may fix your original overclockability issues. It's possible that the 212+ may have somewhat unseated the memory module from flexing around during the swap.

The Arc Midi looks like a nice case....Did you pick it up on the Newegg blowout sale?

Double check all other connections while your in there.

Good luck on your adventure

 

[fishingcat]

Thanks for the advice, I never knew that about the RAM.

I'm in the UK, so unfortunately no Newegg for me . I'm still very happy with the Arc Midi though: it's gorgeous, very easy to work with and cools just as well as my old HAF 932.

I haven't really had time to do much, but my PC booted quite happily at 4.4ghz (1.37V VCore, 3 step LLC).

Strange readings from CPU-Z and task manager in Windows 8. CPU-Z just says 4ghz at load regardless of my frequency settings, but task manager was showing frequencies of up to 4.7ghz even though I only used 4.4 in the BIOS.

Thanks again, I'll see if I can break 4.5ghz this evening.

 

[Puppies04]

Thanks for the advice, I never knew that about the RAM.

I'm in the UK, so unfortunately no Newegg for me . I'm still very happy with the Arc Midi though: it's gorgeous, very easy to work with and cools just as well as my old HAF 932.

I haven't really had time to do much, but my PC booted quite happily at 4.4ghz (1.37V VCore, 3 step LLC).

Strange readings from CPU-Z and task manager in Windows 8. CPU-Z just says 4ghz at load regardless of my frequency settings, but task manager was showing frequencies of up to 4.7ghz even though I only used 4.4 in the BIOS.

Thanks again, I'll see if I can break 4.5ghz this evening.

Try scan for your components, I use them and they have good prices and delivery options. I know it might sound stupid but have you got the 8 pin CPU power connector installed at the top left of the CPU socket as well as the 20+4 pins power connector.

 

[Ketchup]

Are you just using the BIOS for overclocking, or are you using the Gigabyte software as well?

 

[Charlie98]

Are you just using the BIOS for overclocking, or are you using the Gigabyte software as well?

...I was just going to mention that. My attempts to OC using the GB utility was a disaster... I went into my BIOS to OC my 2500K and it's been fine. The GB utility uses stepped up bus multipliers with the OC... not a good thing.

I'll have to say my 2500K isn't a very good OC'er either, the most I could stabilize was 4.1GHz at reduced voltage.

 

[fishingcat]

Are you just using the BIOS for overclocking, or are you using the Gigabyte software as well?

Nope, I've been doing everything from the BIOS.

After moving the RAM sticks everything is fine again! Running Prime95 at 4.4ghz 1.35VCore now without issues. Now I want to see if moving the RAM means I can get to 4.5ghz+

Try scan for your components, I use them and they have good prices and delivery options.

I actually did use Scan for the first time for this case. They're great if you can get free delivery (like I did), with competitive pricing and next day on everything. Otherwise £9 postage makes them less good value compared to Amazon, Ebuyer, CCL, Dabs etc.

 

[Kenmitch]

Good to see your back up and running. Guess the 212+ did mess with the memory chip somewhat if switching the memory to the correct slots fixed the issue. Maybe you'll get your 4.5ghz goal with some tweaking.

You might have to do some more tinkering around to get 4.5ghz stable. Sometimes just bumping up memory voltage a little bit will help. It's possible you may have to play around a little bit with other voltages also but it's a try and see thing as no 2 chips are created alike....Just similar.

It seems for some reason most of MB's are wired for 2nd and 4th slots from the cpu when running 2 chips. I'm thinking this started with S1156 as far as I remember. Most people complain about coolers blocking the first slot but run 2 sticks of memory anyways. For the most part whenever I look at a MB manual out of curiosity it shows the same thing....2nd and 4th slots for 2 sticks. I guess it relieves stress on the internal memory controller? Kinda makes me wonder how many users who struggle with their overclocks are using the wrong slots. I know filling up all 4 slots creates issues with the overclock but I'm wondering if just using the wrong 2 slots can somewhat create the same issue but just not as severe.

I only overclock for fun to see what my chip(s) can do not because I need the speed. It does look like Intel is taking all the fun out of it slowly but shurely. I was looking forward to Ivy but it turned out to be a flame thrower of a chip it looks like. No fun if you gotta somewhat destroy your chip by deliding it to play around at higher overclocks. I figure as time goes on it's only gonna get worse.

My 2550k is most likely the end of my overclocking adventure it looks like. Guess I'm lucky I somewhat won the silicone lottery with it at least as it's a beastly overclocker after one get's over the vcore fear and purchases the optional Intel protection plan just in case.

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2413478

Seems kinda extreme on the vcore but these chips are tougher than one would think. Guess you could destroy one if you try to push it beyond it's limit by forcing massive vcore thru it to make the next jump. The above was what it took to have enough stability to run cpumark99, superPI, and a couple of other benchmarks.

My 2550k running at 4.5ghz requires 1.3v's under heavy loads. Trying for lower overclocks on my MB is a struggle using offset vcore as I gotta go pretty deep in the - offsets to keep the vcore down. Currently playing around at 4.2ghz at 1.25v's to check stability....So far so good tho!

Getting ready to downgrade my rig to a 3225 running the onboard video as I don't game anymore anyways. Got the new rig already built just gotta swap in my SSD/HDD.

Sorry for ranting on and on and............

 

[fishingcat]

Thanks a lot for the advice about the RAM and god damn, that's quite the chip you have there.

Unfortunately 4.5ghz is still elusive though. It's so bad that my motherboard won't even boot into the BIOS with 4.5ghz and 1.38VCore, forcing me to clear the CMOS by shorting the jumper.

I agree that it's a shame that Ivy didn't live up to overclocking expectations, but hopefully Haswell is better. I guess if Intel insists on using crappy solder so you have to delid it to get good temps we might never see the same overclock potential again though.

I'm a little tempted to purchase a reduced H100, get the Intel protection plan and go all out on this thing. I'll probably upgrade next year anyway.

 

[Kenmitch]

Thanks a lot for the advice about the RAM and god damn, that's quite the chip you have there.

Unfortunately 4.5ghz is still elusive though. It's so bad that my motherboard won't even boot into the BIOS with 4.5ghz and 1.38VCore, forcing me to clear the CMOS by shorting the jumper.

I agree that it's a shame that Ivy didn't live up to overclocking expectations, but hopefully Haswell is better. I guess if Intel insists on using crappy solder so you have to delid it to get good temps we might never see the same overclock potential again though.

I'm a little tempted to purchase a reduced H100, get the Intel protection plan and go all out on this thing. I'll probably upgrade next year anyway.

Did you enable Internal PLL Overvoltage? At some point your chip will need it to boot. Worth a shot to see if you haven't tried it yet.

What settings did you try at 45x?

My rig is water cooled which tames the beast. I don't try any hardcore stress testing in the upper clocks as it's not feasable for long term use anyways. Might have to move my rig to the garage for some more testing as the weather is getting nippy lately in the mid to upper 30's for the lows.

Guess my chip could do 5ghz 24/7 with proper cooling as but it takes around 1.43v's or so to be stable.

 

[fishingcat]

I've tested up to 1.38VCore (with 5 step LLC, which seems to pretty much negate vdroop), with and without PLL overvoltage on. All the power options: C1, C3/C6, EIST, Thermal monitoring etc. are disabled. Real time ratio changes in OS are disabled. I've never played around with system agent voltage or manually changed my PLL, but most people seem to think that's unnecessary (aside from the terrible Bit-tech guide that I first followed).

The fact that 4.4ghz requires 1.35V but 4.5ghz won't even boot into BIOS seems odd to me. I may try again with PLL, 1.4Vcore and see how that goes. It wouldn't normally bother me, but everyone talks about how fantastic the 2500k is for overclocking so I feel I should be able to do at least 4.5ghz. Thankfully temperatures aren't an issue, I'm only hitting 65 degrees under Prime95 at 4.4ghz.

 

[Kenmitch]

Your using a fixed vcore or offset mode? You shouldn't need to disable all the energy stuff to overclock your chip. If it was me I'd enable all of them and try again. If using offset mode you might have to disable C3/C6 for stability under single, dual core loads at higher overclocks....BSOD's surfing the web, or doing light loads at times are a side effect of offset vcore....Reason being by defaualt single, dual core loaded vcore will be lower than 3-4 core loaded vcore.

 

[fishingcat]

What do you mean by offset mode?

My "Advanced Voltage Settings" page looks like this: http://i.imgur.com/N9UJh.jpg

I assume on that page Dynamic VCore does the same job?

 

[Kenmitch]

DVID is what other motherboard makers call offset vcore for the most part.

2500k's overclock pretty easy with all energy settings enabled, after all it's the way they are designed to operate in the first place. Most of the time it's just upping the multiplier and tinkering with vcore to make the next jump.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

What do you mean by offset mode?

My "Advanced Voltage Settings" page looks like this: http://i.imgur.com/N9UJh.jpg

I assume on that page Dynamic VCore does the same job?

I want to say this gently. If you have to ask that question, you might have done some more "homework" when you first built the system and started tweaking it.

With my ASUS Z68 board, there are four voltage settings that affect VCORE: The VCORE setting itself -- which provides "Auto," "Fixed" or "Offset" modes; the Offset voltage and "sign" which can be + or -; and an "Extra voltage in Turbo mode." The prevailing wisdom suggests getting the Offset increment as close to zero as possible while using the third voltage to get a stable "Turbo mode" over-clock. Other people just adjust the Offset and its sign for a similar effect.

As some say, you MAY have a less-than-stellar CPU, but I'm not so sure now.

EDIT: sorry about the abrupt judgment. Kenmitch is correct. I was at first puzzled by your BIOS screenie, then recognized the "Dynamic" or DVID option. That can be nothing else than "Offset." As to the third voltage I mentioned, you can poke around to find it, but no guarantee that you have such an option. I can recognize the other voltages on that page, even if the naming is different.

 

[fishingcat]

I broke 4.5ghz! It turns out (unsurprisingly) that the answer was more voltage.

I'm currently at 4.5ghz with 1.40v VCore, 5 step LLC and PLL overvoltage on. 4.6ghz booted at these settings, but failed Prime95 after 5-10mins, so I assume it would require 1.41-1.42v.

The downside to this is that I've reached the limits of my Hyper 212+. Prime95 now rapidly pushes my CPU into the high 70s with max temps at 79-80 celcius. The fan is obviously struggling to keep up as well.

 

[Ketchup]

I broke 4.5ghz! It turns out (unsurprisingly) that the answer was more voltage.

I'm currently at 4.5ghz with 1.40v VCore, 5 step LLC and PLL overvoltage on. 4.6ghz booted at these settings, but failed Prime95 after 5-10mins, so I assume it would require 1.41-1.42v.

The downside to this is that I've reached the limits of my Hyper 212+. Prime95 now rapidly pushes my CPU into the high 70s with max temps at 79-80 celcius. The fan is obviously struggling to keep up as well.

It's cool that you got there, but I would think the CPU would be throttling at those temps. I wouldn't keep it there.

 

[fishingcat]

I'm wondering whether to upgrade my heatsink. I'd been considering it anyway, particularly as Intel's newer chips run hotter than Sandy did.

I'm looking at the Thermalright Silver Arrow (£50 from Scan with free delivery) or the Corsair H100 (£60 delivered refurb at Ebuyer). I'd jump on the Silver Arrow, but I'm not sure whether it will conflict with my Corsair Vengeance RAM. I assume the H100 would perform better if I fitted push-pull too.

Any advice?

 

[Idontcare]

It's cool that you got there, but I would think the CPU would be throttling at those temps. I wouldn't keep it there.

His chip won't thermal throttle until it hits 98°C, the TJmax for 2500k.

I'm wondering whether to upgrade my heatsink. I'd been considering it anyway, particularly as Intel's newer chips run hotter than Sandy did.

I'm looking at the Thermalright Silver Arrow (£50 from Scan with free delivery) or the Corsair H100 (£60 delivered refurb at Ebuyer). I'd jump on the Silver Arrow, but I'm not sure whether it will conflict with my Corsair Vengeance RAM. I assume the H100 would perform better if I fitted push-pull too.

Any advice?

A silver arrow is on par with an NH-D14, which is outperformed by the H100 only by a slim margin.

Go with the one you know makes the most sense for your case. My H100 makes for some complicated radiator placement choices with my case, I actually prefer how my NH-D14 fits in with the rest of my components.

 

[Kenmitch]

I broke 4.5ghz! It turns out (unsurprisingly) that the answer was more voltage.

I'm currently at 4.5ghz with 1.40v VCore, 5 step LLC and PLL overvoltage on. 4.6ghz booted at these settings, but failed Prime95 after 5-10mins, so I assume it would require 1.41-1.42v.

The downside to this is that I've reached the limits of my Hyper 212+. Prime95 now rapidly pushes my CPU into the high 70s with max temps at 79-80 celcius. The fan is obviously struggling to keep up as well.

Congrats on reaching your goal

Are your running dual fans on your 212+? Second fan would probably get you some more breathing room.

Real world temps are never as high as running prime95 or LinX for the most part. I guess it's somewhat possible if you run full load for extended periods of time.

I'd think if you just do the basics and gaming with your rig your temps will never be close to what prime95 achieves.

It's cool that you got there, but I would think the CPU would be throttling at those temps. I wouldn't keep it there.

Those temps are what one would expect running the chip at stock speeds with the stock cooler in a cheap crappy case with poor airflow. Takes more heat to make the chip throttle.

Pre-tested my 2550k with the stock cooler on a MB I got back from rma. Didn't expect the 2550k to be a good overclocker but when it booted into windows at 4.8ghz at 1.38v's I couldn't resist hitting it with Intel Burn Test. The chip throttled down like it's suppost too. Wound up pulling the 2700k out of my rig and selling it with the rma'd MB.

I'm looking at the Thermalright Silver Arrow (£50 from Scan with free delivery) or the Corsair H100 (£60 delivered refurb at Ebuyer). I'd jump on the Silver Arrow, but I'm not sure whether it will conflict with my Corsair Vengeance RAM. I assume the H100 would perform better if I fitted push-pull too. Any advice?

The H100 looks like it has no issue fitting in your case. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp6r4QRmIXE

 

[Ketchup]

His chip won't thermal throttle until it hits 98°C, the TJmax for 2500k.

Thanks, you're right. I didn't have the numbers in front of me when I posted that. I have my numbers in front of me atm. I actually hit 4.9 with mine, and temps were hitting 80 on core #2. My vcore went from 1.34 to 1.48 at full load, did yours fluctuated like that?

I had a thread a couple months ago where folks were telling me the extra fan made a pretty small difference. I haven't bought one yet.

 

[guskline]

Thanks, you're right. I didn't have the numbers in front of me when I posted that. I have my numbers in front of me atm. I actually hit 4.9 with mine, and temps were hitting 80 on core #2. My vcore went from 1.34 to 1.48 at full load, did yours fluctuated like that?

I had a thread a couple months ago where folks were telling me the extra fan made a pretty small difference. I haven't bought one yet.

Second fan usually helps drop the max a few degrees at the expense of more sound.

 

[fishingcat]

I just threw an old Akasa 120mm fan I had lying around on the Hyper 212+.

I was only testing at 4.4ghz w/ 1.35Vcore and saw temps of 70 (+/-2) degrees, so it doesn't seem to have made a great deal of difference. I'm thinking that I'll probably get an H100 soon after Christmas.