i5 2500k vs i7 2600k and other cost cutting measures

[Viggysmalls]

Hi I'm thinking about building a computer for my brother and my family. They aren't really looking to spend over $1000, and something lower (around $700 to $800) would much be preferred. On top of that the price of the monitor has to be included in the cost of the system. I've never built a computer, but I'm studying electrical engineering so I damn well better be able to figure it out.

Here are the parts I picked:

CPU: Intel i5 2500k 3.3ghz quadcore: $220 (Amazon)

GPU EVGA Nvidia GTX 460: $140 (Amazon with mail in rebate)

Monitor: 22" Asus 1080p monitor: $150 (Amazon)

Ram: Corsair Vengeance 8GB of ram ($100)

Motherboard: Asus P8H6T-M LE: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131712. $111 with shipping. USB 3.0 is supported, not sure if its worth it but the one without it was only $7 cheaper. Only one PCI Express slot but the upgrade to two was $100 more.

Case: Cooler Master Elite 360: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...p+case&x=0&y=0

PSU: Corsair 430w power supply:http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-CMPSU-...897628&sr=1-2: $40

OS: Windows 7: $30 (Student discount)

Hard Drive: 1TB WD: $54

CD Drive: Light on Light Scribe 24* R/W: $23.99

Total Cost: $909

I was just wondering what the performance gain would be with an i7. I know it has hyperthreading, but aside from that are the four virtual cores really worth the extra $100? My brother will mainly use this computer for general purpose computing, starcraft 2, a few other games, and my family will use it for whatever high performance tasks they want to run, ranging from light video editing to whatever. As far as I can tell for Starcraft 2 and other games 4 virtual cores is pretty much useless. Since they won't be doing high end video editing, I don't really see much of a benefit from the i7, but I want to see if my analysis is right.

I would think in their case they would benefit more from an SSD then the i7 Sandy Bridge. But those are expensive too, even a low capacity SSD is around $100. I would also just like general feedback about the build.

Also any cost cutting measures would be appreciated, the price of the system is still kind of high. If i could cut the cost down by about $100 to $200 that would be great. Originally I had a Core 2 quad powering the system, and that saved about $50 on the motherboard and $70 on the processor and put the system around the high 700s. However someone told me Starcraft 2 doesn't run well on a Core 2 quad, so I upgraded to Sandy Bridge because i5 nehalem was not cheaper.

Another thing is this system has to last for 5 years without major upgrades. This means that parts have to be reasonable quality and it should be able to at least "run" most things with only GPU upgrades.

 

[drizek]

I would recommend not buying whatever monitor that is and instead getting a Dell U2211h or U2311h for around $200 (after coupons and stuff, check out this thread http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?sduid=53883&t=2742231 )

Hard drive, I would get a 1TB Samsung F3 for $51 (you would need to jump on this one tonight, probably) http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?sduid=394559&t=2735371 It's only $3 in cost-cutting, but I think it is still the best 1TB drive out there.

I think spending a hundred bucks on a better monitor, an SSD, SLI video cards, etc. etc. is going to give you much better bang for your buck than the i7 will. For a general purpose system, I think the money is a bit of a waste. You will likely never notice a real difference between the two, especially since the i5 overclocks like crazy anyway. SSD/monitor/video card upgrades all have actual tangible benefits. My order would be to get the monitor upgrade as the highest priority, followed by an SSD next year and then maybe an extra video card if you really want to play Crysis at 60fps.

 

[Viggysmalls]

I would recommend not buying whatever monitor that is and instead getting a Dell U2211h or U2311h for around $200 (after coupons and stuff, check out this thread http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?sduid=53883&t=2742231 )

Hard drive, I would get a 1TB Samsung F3 for $51 (you would need to jump on this one tonight, probably) http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?sduid=394559&t=2735371 It's only $3 in cost-cutting, but I think it is still the best 1TB drive out there.

I think spending a hundred bucks on a better monitor, an SSD, SLI video cards, etc. etc. is going to give you much better bang for your buck than the i7 will. For a general purpose system, I think the money is a bit of a waste. You will likely never notice a real difference between the two, especially since the i5 overclocks like crazy anyway. SSD/monitor/video card upgrades all have actual tangible benefits. My order would be to get the monitor upgrade as the highest priority, followed by an SSD next year and then maybe an extra video card if you really want to play Crysis at 60fps.

Is that monitor really worth the extra $50? $900 is kind of pushing my parents budget, so I'll have to look into it. Yeah from what I have read the i5 2500k is great for gaming. My brother pretty much only plays Starcraft 2, so I don't think SLI Graphics card would help unless the GTX 460 can't handle the expansion packs or something on Ultra at 1080p.

 

[mnewsham]

The RAM is overpriced, look at the G.Skill value series 8GB kit 1333Mhz CL9 (2x4GB) for 80 bucks.

 

[mnewsham]

Is that monitor really worth the extra $50? $900 is kind of pushing my parents budget, so I'll have to look into it. Yeah from what I have read the i5 2500k is great for gaming. My brother pretty much only plays Starcraft 2, so I don't think SLI Graphics card would help unless the GTX 460 can't handle the expansion packs or something on Ultra at 1080p.

The monitor is a very good monitor BUT for what you are doing (regular pc use and gaming) it is not worth it, stick in the 130-170 range, ACER, ASUS, SAMSUNG, DELL, HP. LED backlit.

And the i7 is NOT worth the $100 extra unless you have a very specific highly threaded program that you use A LOT!

 

[Viggysmalls]

The RAM is overpriced, look at the G.Skill value series 8GB kit 1333Mhz CL9 (2x4GB) for 80 bucks.

Ok thanks for the tip. Just to double check though, those sticks will last for 5+ years though right? My parents don't really like to upgrade their computer technology all that often, and wouldn't be happy if something burned out in under 5 years.

Another thing will ram that works on i5/i7 nehalem work on Sandy Bridge or does it have to be "Sandy Bridge" specific in some way I am confused about that.

 

[Viggysmalls]

The monitor is a very good monitor BUT for what you are doing (regular pc use and gaming) it is not worth it, stick in the 130-170 range, ACER, ASUS, SAMSUNG, DELL, HP. LED backlit.

And the i7 is NOT worth the $100 extra unless you have a very specific highly threaded program that you use A LOT!

Ok thanks for the tip. I can understand the price difference it is an IPS screen (I didn't realize that before), and I really like those. I'll ask my parents if they want to think about paying $50 more for an IPS screen, my mom thought the screen on the iMac was "beautiful", so I'm guessing my parents do like IPS screens so I'll have to see.

 

[mnewsham]

Sandy bridge likes 1.5v RAM. Because sandy bridge OC is done using ONLY the multiplier you dont need to get higher rated RAM anymore the differences in performance between getting 1600mhz RAM or 1800Mhz RAM or CL7 vs CL9 is negligible for almost everyone. (there are exceptions)

This RAM is the right spec. AND the right price And yes G.Skill RAM is very reliable AND if one stick somehow managed to malfunction it is only 40 bucks for a replacement.

 

[mnewsham]

Ok thanks for the tip. I can understand the price difference it is an IPS screen (I didn't realize that before), and I really like those. I'll ask my parents if they want to think about paying $50 more for an IPS screen, my mom thought the screen on the iMac was "beautiful", so I'm guessing my parents do like IPS screens so I'll have to see.

Keep in mind your brother might not be so pleased, IPS has a slower response time and is generally NOT preferred over TN for gaming.

 

[Viggysmalls]

Sandy bridge likes 1.5v RAM. Because sandy bridge OC is done using ONLY the multiplier you dont need to get higher rated RAM anymore the differences in performance between getting 1600mhz RAM or 1800Mhz RAM or CL7 vs CL9 is negligible for almost everyone. (there are exceptions)

This RAM is the right spec. AND the right price And yes G.Skill RAM is very reliable AND if one stick somehow managed to malfunction it is only 40 bucks for a replacement.

Ok thanks for the tip, that is what I wasn't understanding before about Sandy Bridge Ram vs. Nehalem ram.

Yeah I guess I do have to weigh that response time with IPS vs. LCD, I forgot about that, the LCD I was looking at was 2 ms. I think I'll leave that one up to my parents/brother because it seems to be more of a "systems level problem" which is really their decision.

So could I conceivably overclock the i5 to around 4ghz without having to worry too much about cooling? Like I said I want the processor to last a while so I don't want to massively overclock the thing either, and I want to maintain the processor life.

 

[mnewsham]

the i5-2500k is a very good OC'er, grab the Hyper 212+ And that will be sufficient for an OC up to 4.3Ghz on air (for most people yours might be higher or lower)

 

[Viggysmalls]

the i5-2500k is a very good OC'er, grab the Hyper 212+ And that will be sufficient for an OC up to 4.3Ghz on air (for most people yours might be higher or lower)

The processor life won't suffer greatly if I OC with that fan to 4 ghz right?

 

[mnewsham]

As long as you keep your voltage below 1.35v (which should be easy at only 4Ghz)

 

[drizek]

Ok thanks for the tip. I can understand the price difference it is an IPS screen (I didn't realize that before), and I really like those. I'll ask my parents if they want to think about paying $50 more for an IPS screen, my mom thought the screen on the iMac was "beautiful", so I'm guessing my parents do like IPS screens so I'll have to see.

I think if you are going to keep the system for 5 years, it is worth getting a nice monitor for it.

As for response times, yes, IPS is slower than TN but Dell "overclocks" their monitors slightly(I can't remember the proper term). I game on mine all the time and I never notice any ghosting.

 

[aldamon]

So could I conceivably overclock the i5 to around 4ghz without having to worry too much about cooling? Like I said I want the processor to last a while so I don't want to massively overclock the thing either, and I want to maintain the processor life.

Just some thoughts...

First of all, the motherboard you've selected is an H67 board. That means no overclocking so you don't need the more expensive K CPU. No worries though. I think that's a good thing! I wouldn't overclock a computer you're building for someone else. Especially if they're flaky about any problems. So keep your choice or maybe find an H67 that's a bit cheaper. The 2500 (non-K!!!) still has an automatic turbo boost to 3.7 GHz in single threading, which should be more than enough speed for your family for years to come.

4GB of run-of-the-mill RAM will be enough for their usage so you can save quite a bit of money there. I've had 4GB in my machines for years now and haven't found a single reason to go with 8GB yet. Maybe your family will be power users compared to me, but I doubt it.

If you go SSD + conventional HDD, make sure they understand HDD management and know where to store their video files and movies. Also, SSDs are still pretty new and can be flaky. They've been known to die quickly. So if you go with an SSD, keep in mind, you might be getting a call in a few weeks or months. Install some good backup software that will use the conventional drive.

I like the IPS idea, but I question if they'll appreciate the difference. Might be worth it to get a TN now and upgrade them in the future when IPS + LED is affordable.

Good luck!

 

[NoSoup4You]

When building a pc for someone that is non-technical you run the risk of confusing them by explaining too much. Don't worry about making the wrong choice just do your best and make a decision on your own. Once you start explaining the difference between TN and IPS panels you only confuse them AND more importantly you erode their confidence in the product they do end up buying. They end up thinking "we bought the TN panel but it's image quality is bad" instead of thinking "wow look at this incredible monitor we just bought, thank you so much for your help!".

Non-technical people are the ones that can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p tv's, remember that! They won't care at all about a TN panel.

And for the love of all that is holy Do Not Overclock, what on earth could they be doing on this pc that a Sandy Bridge isn't fast enough for them...

 

[Castiel]

You want 1.5v memory.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-428-_-Product

 

[mhouck]

2nd Aldamon. the unlocked cpu and a mobo that doesn't allow overclocking is obviously a mismatch. currently if you want to overclock you need the p67 boards or wait for the z's to come out in a couple months. if not you can drop to the 2500 (minus the k) and put that money towards the monitor that was suggested earlier in the thread

 

[nwo]

If you want to save a little more $$, get a 768mb version of the GTX 460. It is only 5-10% slower than the 1GB version, but it can be had for as low as $90, and it is the superclocked version so the performance difference will be minimal.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2149594

Stick with the i5 because although a small number of games and applications will be able to utilize the virtual cores, it doesn't really make it worth the extra $100 if you're going for a budget build. It is nice to have for video editing, but definitely not a must have. If you are getting a H67 motherboard, there is no reason to get an unlocked/overclocable CPU because you can't overclock on H67 chipset motherboards.

P67 boards can be had for as low as $10-20 more than the H67 board you are after. Cheapest P67 board with 2 PCI-e slots is only $135 on newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128476&cm_re=p67-_-13-128-476-_-Product

 

[ensign_lee]

If you have a microcenter near you, they have the i5 2500k for $180, so that saves you $40...

 

[drizek]

They also have a 23" samsung MVA display for $150, according to a thread in the video section. Not sure how it compares to the Dell, but it is cheaper and definitely better than TN.

 

[mnewsham]

They also have a 23" samsung MVA display for $150, according to a thread in the video section. Not sure how it compares to the Dell, but it is cheaper and definitely better than TN.

Still slower tho.

 

[Jovec]

Keybpoard, Mouse, Speakers, and Printer are all going to be reused?

CPU: Intel i5 2500k 3.3ghz quadcore: $220 (Amazon)

You don't need a K part and you don't need HT. It's probably best to leave this system at stock. It's more than fast enough for the GPU you picked and for general purpose usage.

Consider a cheap (~$30) aftermarket HSF, especially for noise reduction.

GPU EVGA Nvidia GTX 460: $140 (Amazon with mail in rebate)

Solid. You might shop used/CL for a 460 or 5850/70 level GPU.

Monitor: 22" Asus 1080p monitor: $150 (Amazon)

Solid. Either go with value or go for quality. Make sure you get any necessary cables.

Ram: Corsair Vengeance 8GB of ram ($100)

4GB is plenty and it's easy to go to 8 in the future.

Motherboard: Asus P8H6T-M LE: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131712. $111 with shipping. USB 3.0 is supported, not sure if its worth it but the one without it was only $7 cheaper. Only one PCI Express slot but the upgrade to two was $100 more.

USB 3 is worth it considering the price difference.

Case: Cooler Master Elite 360: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...p+case&x=0&y=0

PSU: Corsair 430w power supply:http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-CMPSU-...897628&sr=1-2: $40

You might be able to find an Antec case/PS combo to save a few bucks but solid still.

OS: Windows 7: $30 (Student discount)

Nice money savings.

Hard Drive: 1TB WD: $54

You need to provide some sort of backup solution. At the very least buy two similar HDDs and use the built-in Win7 backup.

CD Drive: Light on Light Scribe 24* R/W: $23.99

Probably all about the same in the price range. I use Samsung.

 

[imported_mystro]

Non-technical people are the ones that can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p tv's, remember that! They won't care at all about a TN panel.
...

ROTFL, I guess that includes my "non tech" brother who stayed with us for a couple of weeks last summer and never knew he was watching a pro-panasonic 58" @ 720p plasma gen11 glass...he's a broadcast eng for a major seattle tv studio btw

 

[podspi]

If you go SSD + conventional HDD, make sure they understand HDD management and know where to store their video files and movies. Also, SSDs are still pretty new and can be flaky. They've been known to die quickly. So if you go with an SSD, keep in mind, you might be getting a call in a few weeks or months. Install some good backup software that will use the conventional drive.

OP might want to check out NTFS junctions. Sadly I don't have a good link explaining them, but they allow you to mount directories anywhere within the file system. I do this to allow my steam account to save everything on a spinning platter, and I'd suggest doing the same for gaming directories and the documents folder. Keep the OS and programs on the SSD, and make sure the hard drive isn't set to go to sleep too soon (otherwise you'll get a lot of lag as it spins up) and the experience should be relatively seamless and fast.