I watched "Born on the 4th of July" last night

[OutHouse]

been many years since i watched it and caught it on HBO last night. the parallels that movie runs with the war in Iraq are incredible.


governments lies
provoked war
rats and nasty hospital conditions
vets turning war protestors

the only thing we are missing are the huge walkouts protest at the universities and high schools.

the democratic national convention is in denver this year, maybe it will turn into the 1972 Chicago convention...

 

[jonks]

Well, one additional minor difference:

Vietnam: US dead: 58,209; 2,000 missing; wounded: 305,000
Iraq: 3921, wounded est. 30,000

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
Well, one additional minor difference:

Vietnam: US dead: 58,209; 2,000 missing; wounded: 305,000
Iraq: 3921, wounded est. 30,000

i think that is the only reason we are not seeing mass demonstrations in the streets.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Citrix
i think that is the only reason we are not seeing mass demonstrations in the streets.

I think that's more likely because there's no draft anymore.

Anyway, I tend to lump (the film) Born on the Fourth of July in with JFK, another Oliver Stone movie of the same tire period. Good flicks which show Stone to be a truly masterful filmmaker, but completely even outrageously historically inaccurate. To the point of being propaganda.
4th is a lot more accurate than JFK, of course, but I would invite people to read Kovic's book instead.

 

[ranmaniac]

"According to documents obtained by the National Security Archive at George Washington University, 25 percent of veterans of the "global war on terror" have filed disability compensation and pension benefit claims with the Veterans Benefits Administration.

One is a Jul. 20, 2006, document titled "Compensation and Pension Benefit Activity Among Veterans of the Global War on Terrorism," which shows that 152,669 veterans filed disability claims after fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan. Of the more than 100,000 claims granted, Veterans Administration records show at least 1,502 veterans have been compensated as 100 percent disabled."

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=36056


It might not seem exactly like Vietnam, but the amount of stress put on the military is still pretty instense.

 

[SSSnail]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
Well, one additional minor difference:

Vietnam: US dead: 58,209; 2,000 missing; wounded: 305,000
Iraq: 3921, wounded est. 30,000

Oh right, just give it time. SURGE!!!!

 

[hellokeith]

Yeah, good thing we retreated out of Vietnam when we did. Look how much good retreating did for us, the South Vietnamese, and the region.

Oh snap! It didn't do any good retreating, just made things worse for the next 30 years..

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: hellokeith
Yeah, good thing we retreated out of Vietnam when we did. Look how much good retreating did for us, the South Vietnamese, and the region.

Oh snap! It didn't do any good retreating, just made things worse for the next 30 years..

Yeah, but things were already bad before we even got there, and that was France's fault.

But look at the country now, and they're doing pretty damned good. It makes me wonder, what if we had sent trade there instead of bombs in the first place?

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: hellokeith
Yeah, good thing we retreated out of Vietnam when we did. Look how much good retreating did for us, the South Vietnamese, and the region.

Oh snap! It didn't do any good retreating, just made things worse for the next 30 years..

Are you kidding me? Have you ever been to Vietnam? Do you know anything about it today?

I've been there twice. I could cite the fact that it is one of the fastest growing economies in the world, that the standard of living surpasses that of its neighbors, etc. but you seem to be so out of touch as to not warrant me wasting my time.

As for the rights that the Vietnamese people don't have these days, I'd say it is one par with China and much better than many countries in the world, and just as with China as the economy grows these restrictions will naturally fade away. Certainly lifting these restrictions would not have been worth the millions of lives that were lost in that war. Millions of lives, and you try to defend it.

You get off a bus in central Vietnam, you get surrounded by freakishly deformed people that are almost on the level of subhuman, begging you for change. You try to feel sympathetic but the nature of their deformities is too much to handle and you just have to get away. Then you tell me how much more good we would have done over there had we only had more time.

 

[BigJelly]

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: hellokeith
Yeah, good thing we retreated out of Vietnam when we did. Look how much good retreating did for us, the South Vietnamese, and the region.

Oh snap! It didn't do any good retreating, just made things worse for the next 30 years..

Are you kidding me? Have you ever been to Vietnam? Do you know anything about it today?

I've been there twice. I could cite the fact that it is one of the fastest growing economies in the world, that the standard of living surpasses that of its neighbors, etc. but you seem to be so out of touch as to not warrant me wasting my time.

As for the rights that the Vietnamese people don't have these days, I'd say it is one par with China and much better than many countries in the world, and just as with China as the economy grows these restrictions will naturally fade away. Certainly lifting these restrictions would not have been worth the millions of lives that were lost in that war. Millions of lives, and you try to defend it.

You get off a bus in central Vietnam, you get surrounded by freakishly deformed people that are almost on the level of subhuman, begging you for change. You try to feel sympathetic but the nature of their deformities is too much to handle and you just have to get away. Then you tell me how much more good we would have done over there had we only had more time.

3+ million People would disagree with you, but don't let the facts get in the way

Hundreds of thousands of South Vietnamese officials, particularly ARVN officers, were imprisoned in reeducation camps after the Communist takeover.[citation needed] Tens of thousands died and many fled the country after being released. Up to two million civilians left the country, and as many as half of these boat people perished at sea.[citation needed]
On July 2, 1976, the Socialist Republic of Vietnam was declared. In 1977, United States President Jimmy Carter issued a pardon for nearly 10,000 draft dodgers.[126]
After repeated border clashes in 1978, Vietnam invaded Democratic Kampuchea (Cambodia) and ousted the Khmer Rouge. As many as two million died during the Khmer Rouge genocide.]

 

[Farang]

Yes, Vietnam did end the genocide in Cambodia. As for the exodus, one has to wonder which is bloodier: war continued, or its aftermath? There is no way of knowing. What is known is that Vietnam today is a booming country and would likely be much better off had it not had to fight two long, bloody wars with foreign powers.