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I was just thinking of a new wheel design

S

stebesplace

Senior member
Would this work?

I was thinking this morning about a wheel that was something like this. The wheel is like magnet, in that the outer 'rim' is the outer part of a magnet, and the inner portion is the other part of a magnet, perhaps like a small motor. Not really for power per say, but more for acting like a brake system when electricity is applied. This would create rather a gap between the wheel and the outer rim so to speak. Anyone care to make comments on this?

-Steve
 
This brings new meaning to revinenting the wheel! 😀

I don't think that'll work because it would require a huge amount of current to stop a moving object with that much momentum. I don't remember the physics equations, but if you take the kinetic energy of a moving vehicle and convert that to Watt-hours, you'll see that it requires a massive pulse of current to stop the car.
 
I'm not sure I can completely visualize what you are talking about but I think you are suggesting a wheel where the rim is inherently part of a motor - in this case the rotor. Actually, this can work. However, from practical constraints we usually put the rotor inside the stator. There isn't any reason it can't work the other way though. Electric car designs and things like space vehicles (moon buggy, etc.) usually have motors directly mounted to the wheels. The electric car designs also have regenerative braking to recover the energy.

You can do all kinds of things with distributed power like steer by applying power to specific wheels. Also there are some strange things in history. One early motorcycle had a radial engine mounted on the front wheel. The crankshaft was the axel and was fixed. The cylinders, attached to the wheel, whirled around as the engine ran. It worked but had some obvious problems in handling.
 
Originally posted by: stebesplace
Would this work?

I was thinking this morning about a wheel that was something like this. The wheel is like a magnet, in that the outer 'rim' is the outer part of a magnet, and the inner portion is the other part of a magnet, perhaps like a small motor. Not really for power per say, but more for acting like a brake system when electricity is applied. This would create rather a gap between the wheel and the outer rim so to speak. Anyone care to make comments on this?

-Steve
Click to expand...

I'm not quite visualizing it either; you mention a gap - do you mean using a sort of maglev bearing?

 
MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE. . . .


In regards to the last post. . .

picture a wheel, with no spokes. Just the outer rim, and the inner brake housing. Take out all spokes. Now picture this wheel having in the inner portion, smoe sort of motor, electronic magent etc, that keeps the outer rim stable, and in place. Perhaps with a gyro on board. So in effect, you would have stopping power with the electricity transfered from the rim to the inner section, and in the same respect, you would have motion that could be made. Of course not all wheels could move, you would have to do a 2 point movement or something perhaps, but i think you get the idea.

-Steve

p.s. JEFF7, you are never on AIM anymore man. . .
 
Companies, rather than using that energy for braking, are using the traditional brakes, modified to store energy from a brake, not use it.
 
Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
Originally posted by: Gunbuster
Are you talking about a hubless wheel with maglev bearings?

Hubless wheel
Click to expand...

wtf? how on earth can the motorcycle stay balanced? how in the world does this work?
Click to expand...


I don't think the Sbarro wheel has much in common with your question. All this amounts to is a system where the rim runs on a set of bearings so it's rotating without a hub. Just imagine a hoop hanging on a couple of pegs on a wall and then run it over. It has a tremendous theoretical advantage in putting the point of support (and weight) very close to road. It also seems to have huge forces on the bearings and rim. It works but has had little practical acceptance.

Magnetic bearings are a very different concept. By putting a huge electromagnetic force between a housing and a shaft, you can do away with bearings completely. As the shaft moves closer to the housing, the force increases which causes it to return to a centered position. This is now being used in applications where lubrication cannot be used for fear of contamination of process materials. I'm not sure how big these have been commercially built but I'm aware of applications in development for equipment weighing many tons. There is no real trick in combining a motor with magnetic bearings but I'm not sure the power requirements would be justified in something like an automobile.
 
I remember a long time ago watching a program where a inventor created a motorcycle wheel similar to what I think you are talking about.

A wheel with no spokes just a set of bearings/brake system that rode on the part of the rim closest to the ground. The idea was that with the "hub" of the wheel just a few inches above the ground it would exibite supior handling to a conventional motorcycle. He got as far as a working prototype that he was riding around.

A couple things stuck me as disadvantages to such a design.

1. spokes on a wheel make it very very stong design with as little weight as possible. Look how thin a bike's metal is that holds the tire on, without the spokes or misadjusted spokes you can twist it into a preztle with very little effort, however with properly strung wire spokes it is strong enough that it can take the several hundred pounds of pressure lets say when you smack the tire on a curb or do a jump. You would have to make the rim itself to very thick and strong to wistand the force of a modern motorcycle hitting a pothole at speed, not to mention any missalignment or warping of the rim would be very disasterous. It is vey possible of course to build such a rim, the before mentioned inventer did, but also all that extra weight would be at the outermost edge of the rim. With all that weight set on the fastest (as far as rotating speed) part of the rim that would be a lot of inertia to fight and would lend itself to very poor braking and acceleration properties. Spin around on a swivle chair, Stick your arms and legs out, they absorb the inertia and you slow down, pull your arms/legs in and you speed back up.
Plus magnets are very weighty things to put on any wheel and exess unsprung weight is very bad....

2. you have to be able to keep it clean. On a diskbrake system you only have a paper-thin space between the rotor and the brake pads and the bearings are kept sheilded. In order for your magnets to work it would seem that you need to have space there to avoid having them hitting the rim or so.... Think you you would have to keep pebbles and mud and dirt out of there so it wouldn't jam up. And any sort of sheilding would add to the weight of the device.

I think with today's technology it is not possible to create something pratical that would work. Modern bearings are able to create such a strong a fiction free wheel spindle that it the loss thru friction is very small. also they are very cheap and easy to replace. On a modern car replacing worn wheel bearings is not much more difficult than replacing a fat tire or replacing the brake pads. (I've done all of that on my and my freind's car...)

I think once they figure out the how to control and focus lines of magnetic force better and create newer and better superconducters it would make it possible. Think how you could weave some sort of magnetic material into the tire rubber and than negate the need even to inflate the tire or have any rim of any sort, just have the rubber "band" flopping around and being forced under some stator or device imbetween the ground and the "wheel". Just think of magnetic bearings with a foot or two of space between the bearing surfaces instead of a micometers... Hell you would even need any suspension. just have it like your own movable road like tank treads or something, just held in place by magnetic forces.... If they make those magnetic roadways or superconductor trains you wouldn't even need the the magnetic rubber band unless you need to go on side dirt roads or ofroad... hehe
 
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