I was going to buy a Surface Pro when I realized I already have a MBPr

[Owls]

Forgive me with the title as it wasn't meant to incite fanboyism. I was bored and I figure I'd look to see what tech toys we can use for some testing and add to our recommendation list for our clients when I realized that I haven't even looked at the Surface Pro. After reading many reviews and nearly pulling the trigger on an Acer Iconia W700 I realized that if I had a laptop and wanted to replace it in a way where I could do "more" the way to go about it to get the best of both worlds is to get a MBPr. Now hear me out:

MBPr can:
Run OSX and have a battery life of almost 7 hours
Run Windows 7 and have a battery life of about 5-6 hours.

So in those instances if I need to do some work out in the field and Windows is a must the MBPr still only weighs 4lb. So I'm struggling to think of a reason for a Surface Pro and the only positive I could think of is the price. For under $1000 you get a great laptop replacement that is capable of doing actual work. Even if you get the no frills 13" MBPr for $1499 you get a faster dual core cpu, double the memory, and the same SSD space for only an extra $400-500 depending on which Surface Pro variant you are looking at.

While the raw numbers may not appear favorable for a MBPr I believe for those who are on the fence or haven't thought about this scenario to just get the 13" MBPr with 128 or 256GB of space. This way you get to use OSX and Windows without issues such as battery life and general performance.

Thoughts?

 

[Crono]

Surface Pro is for someone who wants a hybrid tablet/laptop with all the functionality and power of full Windows.

If you just need a laptop and not the tablet form or pen, there are better and/or cheaper ultrabooks with or without touch. If you have a MacBook Pro and don't need touch then sure, don't plunk down $1,000 for a Surface Pro.

 

[Owls]

Surface Pro is for someone who wants a hybrid tablet/laptop with all the functionality and power of full Windows.

If you just need a laptop and not the tablet form or pen, there are better and/or cheaper ultrabooks with or without touch. If you have a MacBook Pro and don't need touch then sure, don't plunk down $1,000 for a Surface Pro.

My argument is that you can get that with a MBPr with better specs and still run windows IF a touchscreen isn't important. And if you are doing any kind of productivity a touch screen hampers that ability (at least for me). If the next version of Surface Pro is 200-300 less, which I doubt, the value of the MBPr goes away completely.

 

[aceO07]

My argument is that you can get that with a MBPr with better specs and still run windows IF a touchscreen isn't important. And if you are doing any kind of productivity a touch screen hampers that ability (at least for me). If the next version of Surface Pro is 200-300 less, which I doubt, the value of the MBPr goes away completely.

If a touchscreen or Wacom stylus (or tablet) features wasn't important to you, then the Surface Pro would lose in many comparisons and you wouldn't even think of it. In fact, that's why you never considered it before... and why you still aren't that interested in it now..

 

[Crono]

My argument is that you can get that with a MBPr with better specs and still run windows IF a touchscreen isn't important. And if you are doing any kind of productivity a touch screen hampers that ability (at least for me). If the next version of Surface Pro is 200-300 less, which I doubt, the value of the MBPr goes away completely.

Yeah, I agree with you.

There are a number of lightweight ("ultrabook") laptops that I would consider as well if I didn't need touch. ASUS, Lenovo, Toshiba, Dell, Acer and others make good options in addition to Apple. Even some premium ones that are competitive with the MBP.

Dual boot/boot camp with MBP is a pretty attractive route, though. Apple's laptops have been equipped well since the switch to Intel a few years ago. And they have almost always had some of the best chassis.

 

[Owls]

If a touchscreen or Wacom stylus (or tablet) features wasn't important to you, then the Surface Pro would lose in many comparisons and you wouldn't even think of it. In fact, that's why you never considered it before... and why you still aren't that interested in it now..

I understand that but Windows 8 hasn't driven the need for a touch screen since it feels tacked on. I think the value proposition of the surface pro would be better at a 700 or 800 dollar price point. A fully loaded pro usually runs 1100-1200 and that is perilously close to similar form factor ultra books that do more.

 

[zerogear]

I understand that but Windows 8 hasn't driven the need for a touch screen since it feels tacked on. I think the value proposition of the surface pro would be better at a 700 or 800 dollar price point. A fully loaded pro usually runs 1100-1200 and that is perilously close to similar form factor ultra books that do more.

The touch UI doesn't feel tacked on at all. I own a surface pro, while in tablet mode, I have never felt the need to use a keyboard and mouse nor felt the need to use desktop mode. Note that when in tablet mode this device is strictly a consumer device.

Once I plop the keyboard onto the surface pro it becomes just like any other ultra book. I don't understand what you mean by do more with other ultrabooks considering it is still a full OS and computer. As for battery life, I can get around 6 to 7 hours out of it with some optimizations.

 

[Owls]

The touch UI doesn't feel tacked on at all. I own a surface pro, while in tablet mode, I have never felt the need to use a keyboard and mouse nor felt the need to use desktop mode. Note that when in tablet mode this device is strictly a consumer device.

Once I plop the keyboard onto the surface pro it becomes just like any other ultra book. I don't understand what you mean by do more with other ultrabooks considering it is still a full OS and computer. As for battery life, I can get around 6 to 7 hours out of it with some optimizations.

I haven't seen anyone post with proof that they are able to get 6 or 7 hours out of the surface pro. Either you aren't doing anything with the device or you have brightness at 10% or something ridiculous.

Again I'm still not sold on the touch screen on windows 8 and I'm not the only one who thinks that but let's not kid ourselves since the touch type keyboard is not even on par with the worst ultra book keyboards.

 

[kevinsbane]

I haven't seen anyone post with proof that they are able to get 6 or 7 hours out of the surface pro. Either you aren't doing anything with the device or you have brightness at 10% or something ridiculous.

Again I'm still not sold on the touch screen on windows 8 and I'm not the only one who thinks that but let's not kid ourselves since the touch type keyboard is not even on par with the worst ultra book keyboards.

Windows 8 makes sense only if you have a touchscreen. Using Windows 8 without a touchscreen quickly becomes an exercise in frustration (and possibly broken hardware due to extreme user interaction). The only person I know who's liked it happened to have a x220t - a tablet convertible. And I would agree with him - it works decently if you've got a touch screen, but only if you have one.

 

[zerogear]

I haven't seen anyone post with proof that they are able to get 6 or 7 hours out of the surface pro. Either you aren't doing anything with the device or you have brightness at 10% or something ridiculous.

Again I'm still not sold on the touch screen on windows 8 and I'm not the only one who thinks that but let's not kid ourselves since the touch type keyboard is not even on par with the worst ultra book keyboards.

Then you haven't been reading enough.

http://www.surfaceforums.net/forum/...very-good-battery-life-around-6-hours-me.html

http://www.allthatnerdystuff.com/2013/02/25/how-to-optimize-microsoft-surface-pro-battery-life/

http://www.zdnet.com/is-the-brilliant-quirky-flawed-surface-pro-right-for-you_p2-7000010882/

In my tests, I consistently got between 5 and 6 hours of operation in working sessions, using normal power management settings and occasionally stepping away from the device. That’s not a formal run-down test, but it does accurately simulate the way many people will work.

http://www.slashgear.com/microsofts...surface-pros-battery-life-on-reddit-06268404/

In our review of the Surface Pro, we saw the battery life hovering between 4.5 and 5 hours with the display on and media streaming. Those numbers increased a bit to 6 hours when the device was used for a mix of Web surfing and media streaming.

If you're running at 100% media streaming, then yeah, it'll run down faster, as for my daily work load, it's fairly normal to see around 6 to 7 hours battery life.

Microsoft offers two keyboard covers, one is touch cover keyboard and one is type cover keyboard. Which one are you talking about?

As for the touch cover keyboard, it's basically like a software keyboard but with a physical interface. Type cover keyboard is not great, but it's not horrible either. I've tried other Ultrabooks such as Asus Zenbook Prime and a few Samsung Series 9 ones, and the Type cover keyboard isn't all that much better or worse against them.

With a mechanical keyboard, I type around 140wpm, with chicklet keyboards I got around 90s wpm -- while with the type cover keyboard, at first I was around 70wpm, but after a few days used, it got up to 80-90 wpm. How the keyboard feels for you is subjective, and I wouldn't say it's the "worst keyboard eva."

 

[Ravynmagi]

So it turns out that a tablet is not a good choice for people that don't want a tablet? Wow, thanks for that important information.

 

[Owls]

So it turns out that a tablet is not a good choice for people that don't want a tablet? Wow, thanks for that important information.

Did I ever say I didn't want a tablet? I tried to justify a reason to get one but I couldn't. Then I offered up an alternative that does a lot more. Did you read my post or did you come in here to post something stupid?

 

[Deeko]

Windows 8 makes sense only if you have a touchscreen. Using Windows 8 without a touchscreen quickly becomes an exercise in frustration (and possibly broken hardware due to extreme user interaction). The only person I know who's liked it happened to have a x220t - a tablet convertible. And I would agree with him - it works decently if you've got a touch screen, but only if you have one.

Once you're in the desktop it functions as well or better than Windows 7, and I think everyone on these forums should be savvy enough to know how to get there. I have Windows 8 on my dual screen desktop and my MacBook Air, and have no usability issues at all.

 

[Ravynmagi]

Did I ever say I didn't want a tablet? I tried to justify a reason to get one but I couldn't. Then I offered up an alternative that does a lot more. Did you read my post or did you come in here to post something stupid?

You dismissed the two defining features of a tablet as being things not important to you. You don't need the touch screen and you are okay with a 4 pound laptop. So your thread seems quite silly to me.

 

[finbarqs]

compare and contrast real quick:

MBP, 7 hours... more likely roughly around 6 hours of general usage (13" 2012 mbp) in OSX. In win 7? luck if you get 5... more like 3.5-4 hours.

Surface Pro - (my experience with my ex 128GB) 4.5 hours of general usage. (mix of media streaming, etc.)

screen: 11" vs. 13" both usage pretty good screens, with the surface pro approaching rMBP dpi's, so surface pro screen looks really good next to a MBP, about the same as a rMBP. If you get the rMBP, then rMBP all the way.

Touch screen (if you care about it) surface pro all the way.

Pen (wacom digitizer) If you do photography, this is EXTREMELY important. Though not as awesome as the Cintiq 24HD (come on, 11" vs. 24") But it's usable, pending Wacom Drivers. Unfortunately, touch controls does not work very well with Photoshop windows.

Horse power - MBP all the way.

Size and weight/portability. Surface Pro. It's lighter. easier to carry around.

Ergonomics. MBP. There's only 1 real way to use the surface pro, and that's landscape. And you have to be on a solid desk. There's no hinge so you can't adjust the viewing angle. You're stuck with 1, and that's the one with the kick stand. Unless you get your own stand, and angle it yourself without the integrated stand.

I personally thought the surface was a "good attempt", but Windows 8 is just one big confusing mess. The "modern" UI mixed with the traditional desktop is like Microsoft back peddling and it just comes off unfocused. But you can definitely get use to the interface.

Whoever invents the OS (MS or Apple) that really makes the UI a touch base system that has a GOOD file system (navigation, copy, cut, etc.) and the ease of use of iOS, will win.

I returned my 128GB Surface Pro because I know something's down the line that's gonna blow the surface pro away. Plus it's just not fully matured yet, the drivers, windows 8, I just don't wanna be beta testing.

Anyways, that's my comparison. Playing games on the surface pro is just a novelty. You can't really see crap in a 11" screen.

Writing e-mails was kind of cool....

 

[Owls]

You dismissed the two defining features of a tablet as being things not important to you. You don't need the touch screen and you are okay with a 4 pound laptop. So your thread seems quite silly to me.

It was mainly dismissed on price and performance. Try reading my post again but slower.

 

[Ravynmagi]

It was mainly dismissed on price and performance. Try reading my post again but slower.

I read your post. I don't get why you were even looking at the Surface Pro if you didn't want a touch screen tablet though.

Surface Pro's price is actually pretty decent considering it's a 2 pound hybrid, with touch screen, Wacom digitizer, and pen. Of course it would seem silly expensive to someone that doesn't want a touch screen or care about the smaller tablet form factor.

 

[poofyhairguy]

It was mainly dismissed on price and performance. Try reading my post again but slower.

Not really. To dismiss it on those qualities, you would still need a similar comparison base.

For example, if you were going to get the Surface Pro because you really wanted a touch interface, but instead you bought the Razer Edge because for a little more money you got a lot more power in the tablet THEN it would be dismissing the Surface Pro on price and performance.

If you don't care enough about touch capabilities to pay for it, it is not fair to say you didn't chose a touch device because of price.

 

[dagamer34]

Even if you really really really wanted a Surface Pro, I'd tell you to wait for Haswell or Temash for better battery life. I'd also say just avoid first gen products in general since they've been in development for 2.5+ years. Some things only come to light when they've been released to the public.

I've used a Surface Pro for about 3 weeks before I returned it, it just needs another hardware/software revision before I can recommend it to anyone who needs that kind of hybrid machine, much like how while the iPad 1 was "good", the iPad 2 (and derived iPad mini) are far better products. Remember that it took 7 months just for that first iPad to get multi-tasking and it constantly ran out of RAM!

Wait.

 

[AMDZen]

Screw surface, get one of these

 

[WelshBloke]

Screw surface, get one of these

Does anybody really want an Android laptop though?

 

[kevinsbane]

Once you're in the desktop it functions as well or better than Windows 7, and I think everyone on these forums should be savvy enough to know how to get there. I have Windows 8 on my dual screen desktop and my MacBook Air, and have no usability issues at all.

So basically, you're not really using Windows 8.

 

[Red Storm]

Does anybody really want an Android laptop though?

Hell yes I do!

 

[Deeko]

So basically, you're not really using Windows 8.

I'm using the Windows 8 operating system. It has other advantages. In general, the desktop is faster than Win7, and there are a lot of nice improvements to Explorer. Also, startup and shut down are much faster. I don't have to use metro to take advantage of Windows 8, and while a lot of people hate metro so much they don't give the desktop a chance, it actually is a superior desktop experience to Win7 in my experience.

 

[Crono]

Does anybody really want an Android laptop though?

No, but more than a Chromebook, that's for sure.

Docking a phone via wireless to HDMI or a physical HDMI cable and bluetooth for peripherals for an Android desktop is interesting, though. Listened to a recent podcast ("Know How") that has an easy tutorial for anyone who hasn't done it before.

The Atrix had a laptop kind of dock as well, but I think only now are smartphones really coming with high enough specs to make it desirable.
An Arm or even x86 Android (which I think is unofficial) laptop doesn't sound too appealing except at the lower end, not until Android has support for dedicated graphics.