I want to build this, please give "constructive" criticism.

[WarCon]

I have been really thinking about total imersion cooling for a system. My idea is this, to build a clear case from lexan and then add the parts from a small refrigerator, putting the cooling coils inside and the rest of the refrigerator parts (pump and other coils) outside in a secondary "box" that is very sound proofed. The only parts that will come out are the cables for CDROM and floppy. Also have holes for peripheral cables like monitor, keyboard, etc. If you run the temperature probe inside you should be able to control the temperature. Then fill the whole box with mineral oil and seal it. You could use regular heatsinks on the processor and video card without fans, but if the fans would turn you could leave them on and really circulate cold oil over the heatsink.

I thought you could really make it sweet looking by adding lights in the oil or if you could find fluorescent dye to the oil and a black light and the whole thing could glow like a neuclear core...........

I think I already have the small refrigerator. Money is tight though so this may take me some time.

If condensation becomes an issue for the tower, I may double wall with an air gap the entire box. Otherwise I would just sit it in a pan to collect moisture.

My main questions for anyone who might know, is how thick does mineral oil get at near freezing?

Will the smaller fans still turn?

Added thought, I wonder how cold I could get the core with a peltier rig (Only problem would be the added stress on the refrig system.)

 

[gogeeta13]

Come back and post after reading up on all the crap those crazy OCers do across the ocean. Then, tell us if you still want to attemp what you are doing.

But I will humor you.

Have you ever built a water cooling system?

Have you ever used a peltier setup?

Have you ever set up a electronic device submerged in anything?

Have you ever taken apart a fridge and studied thermal dynamics?

(there are many more)

If you answered NO to any of the questions above, then don't even think about messing with it:Q

 

[WarCon]

I have seen a few of the crazy things like dry ice and alcohol or liquid nitrogen cooling.

I currently watercool.

No, I have never set a peltier up, but did enough study to decide not too with my AMD. But I think I understand peltiers fairly well.

I have even been to Dr. Freeze's website and seen his mineral oil cooled system (I realize it shorted out too, but that was do to condensation and ice actually being allowed access to the oil (I realize oil floats on water and enough water builds up it will sink to the level of the components and short things out). That was the whole purpose in sealing the entire unit and filling it completely with mineral oil (no air gaps).

I know enough about refrigeration cooling to know that the "cooling" coils go inside the tank and the "hot" set of coils (recondensing) would go outside with a fan blowing across them (unless I really didn't need one). Only the cool "evaporative coils" would be inside the mineral oil.

And no I have never submerged electronics in any fluid (intentionally), but I was of the understanding that mineral oil is non-conductive so it causing shorts is not an issue. Just making sure it isn't exposed to air (i.e suspensed moisture in said air) I thought would be enough.

Yes, I know working with the oil will be messy as hell, but I wouldn't plan on playing with it much after it works.

Is there something else I should know about mineral oil? Is it corrosive to components? I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere.

I really wasn't all that serious about using a peltier, because I think the added powersupply and power dissipation would stress a mini-frig too much.


Any constructive criticism? Anyone?

 

[gogeeta13]

<< I have seen a few of the crazy things like dry ice and alcohol or liquid nitrogen cooling.

I currently watercool.

No, I have never set a peltier up, but did enough study to decide not too with my AMD. But I think I understand peltiers fairly well.

I have even been to Dr. Freeze's website and seen his mineral oil cooled system (I realize it shorted out too, but that was do to condensation and ice actually being allowed access to the oil (I realize oil floats on water and enough water builds up it will sink to the level of the components and short things out). That was the whole purpose in sealing the entire unit and filling it completely with mineral oil (no air gaps).

I know enough about refrigeration cooling to know that the "cooling" coils go inside the tank and the "hot" set of coils (recondensing) would go outside with a fan blowing across them (unless I really didn't need one). Only the cool "evaporative coils" would be inside the mineral oil.

And no I have never submerged electronics in any fluid (intentionally), but I was of the understanding that mineral oil is non-conductive so it causing shorts is not an issue. Just making sure it isn't exposed to air (i.e suspensed moisture in said air) I thought would be enough.

Yes, I know working with the oil will be messy as hell, but I wouldn't plan on playing with it much after it works.

Is there something else I should know about mineral oil? Is it corrosive to components? I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere.

I really wasn't all that serious about using a peltier, because I think the added powersupply and power dissipation would stress a mini-frig too much.


Any constructive criticism? Anyone? >>



Sounds like with a little more knowledge, you could go for it.

But ask yourself this: Is it worth the 400$ and dozens of hours you will spend to OC a little? Would you money be better spent buying a XP 2000+ and Ti500?

 

[WarCon]

LOL,

From that perspective, I would completely agree with you 100% (so would my wife maybe even more).

But aren't mountains there to climb, I figure I overclock for the same reason. Its one of my hobby's at this point. How many people spend ridiculous amounts of money on their hobby's. Look at golf (which I really enjoy also, but thats besides the point), its going out and spending $300 + on a decent set of clubs, average of $10 bucks a round for balls and tees, $20 + on a round of golf (~4 hours) all to chase a little white ball around a pretty green park and get a little sunshine. Heck for what most golfers spend in a year on golf, I could buy several computers. I could build one really kick ass computer and submerge it in near freezing oil.........

The moral of the story is that it is all for fun, not for speed. Honestly I passed what speed I really needed when I bought a 1ghz.

Thanks for the replies anyway.

 

[Lizardman]

I dont think it would be easy to keep the case air proof. You would have to make some sort of bleeding system that would have an overflow take of oil to go in as air went. I also think that if you did this and put any fans in there you would be sentence them to a short death. The oil would be way too think in my opinion for any pc fan to operate at for any long length of time. You will have alot of trouble keeping the oil off of your floor. The holes where cables go out of will cause trouble due to the flat ribbon shape.

If you have the time and patience then go for it man. It would be so sweet if it works.

 

[WarCon]

I figured enough caulking should do the trick, and a strain relief on the cables(so they can't be moved at the silicone seal) is already part of the plan. The holes are also most likely going to be in the top only, so air leakage was really all I was worried about.

Question: What does anyone think about keeping the hard drive submerged? Will the constant cool affect the motor or the spindle (maybe cause an expansion/contraction problem in the bearings?) I think the hard drives already are going outside the case by my thinking, but what does anyone else think?

And as far as the fans go, I may just sacrifice a spare 80mm and buy a gallon of mineral oil and just see how long (or even if) it turns and what kind of flow it gives.

Anyway..........

 

[Daovonnaex]

<< I have been really thinking about total imersion cooling for a system. My idea is this, to build a clear case from lexan and then add the parts from a small refrigerator, putting the cooling coils inside and the rest of the refrigerator parts (pump and other coils) outside in a secondary "box" that is very sound proofed. The only parts that will come out are the cables for CDROM and floppy. Also have holes for peripheral cables like monitor, keyboard, etc. If you run the temperature probe inside you should be able to control the temperature. Then fill the whole box with mineral oil and seal it. You could use regular heatsinks on the processor and video card without fans, but if the fans would turn you could leave them on and really circulate cold oil over the heatsink.

I thought you could really make it sweet looking by adding lights in the oil or if you could find fluorescent dye to the oil and a black light and the whole thing could glow like a neuclear core...........

I think I already have the small refrigerator. Money is tight though so this may take me some time.

If condensation becomes an issue for the tower, I may double wall with an air gap the entire box. Otherwise I would just sit it in a pan to collect moisture.

My main questions for anyone who might know, is how thick does mineral oil get at near freezing?

Will the smaller fans still turn?

Added thought, I wonder how cold I could get the core with a peltier rig (Only problem would be the added stress on the refrig system.) >>

Sounds like you need some flourinert.

 

[WarCon]

If I could afford it, that would be ideal.

 

[Lizardman]

Warcon i dont know if it would be a good idea to put your hard drive under oil. There are holes on the top of the hard drive that say do not block this hole, so i wouldnt block them.

 

[WarCon]

I think your right, I had my doubts (I really like the idea of cooling the hard drive, but I worried about it being submerged).

 

[MobiusAT]

Case fans will not run in mineral oil. If you are going to test it, use a disposable fan (obviously)
and a disposable power supply, since the fan is going to sit there and burn up. The viscosity of the
mineral oil will simply be too high.

Convection currents in the cold mineral oil will occur, but on shall we say geologic time.

You will need either a) some type of pump to force circulation or b) something like a model boat
propeller working as a fan to circulate the mineral oil around the processor. Something will
need to forcibly move the oil from the cpu area to the fridge coils.

One idea that comes to mind is to use a pump and a funnel. The fridge coils go at the mouth of
the funnel. The pump draws through the narrow end. On the exit end, use large diameter
surgical tubing to direct the pump output directly onto the cpu die. Sorta like the radiator for
your water setup, but in reverse. As long as you don't create some type of eddy with that
output hose, you're guaranteed to circulate all the oil through the coils.

I have no idea what type of pump to recommend. Dealing with the viscosity of the mineral oil is
going to be hard on a pump built for water. If it's sturdy enough, and you give it enough juice ...

On the same note, do not immerse any non-disposable hard drives. I believe all drives have
air access pathways to accomodate/equalize pressure differentials. But hey, why not - grab
that old 200MB connor, toss it in, and see how long it survives

 

[WarCon]

Thanks for the reply, yeah I was really starting to think a pump was going to be the way to move the mineral oil.

Another question: Do you think direct die cooling would be better than mount a finned heatsink and having it be cooled by moving oil? I have been looking at various sites and some say that direct die cooling was working better than a waterblock, but I fail to see why it would. Can someone illuminate me.