I want to become vegetarian

[apoppin]

I went to work and then the forums went down.

First of all, I don't need to explain anything to a ridiculer like cxim. He has contributed nothing but ridicule to this thread and has failed to say ANYTHING that supports his (lack of) views. However, some of the more reasonable members have asked where I got my info.

First of all - I have promoted vegetarianism as a healthy "alternative" to eating meat. My one example was the religion Buddhism - many of its members do not eat meat for reasons of karma. I pointed out that there are millions of people worldwide who have raised families for generations on a plant-based diet only without suffering ill effects. I challenge ANYONE to contradict this.

I was not speaking of the health of Indians living in abject poverty - as cxim claimed. Infact, despite their poverty they are over 1 billion people. Do you really need links to life-span comparisons of - say vegetarian Japanese with other meat eaters? Just do an internet search.

As to calcium absorbtion - I was pointing out the advantages of plant-based green foods over "rock" sources (or even milk). The best chart I can find is this one.

I can't find the absorbtion for Calcium carbonate but I remember it is rather low (much lower than milk) - in fact, many supplement manufactures chelate it so it can be better used by the body. Looking at the chart, however, we see milk's calcium about 32% absorbed and the calcium from many leafy greens about 50-75% absorbed. Significant? I think so.

This is just from a quick search. I was mostly quoting from memory. Not lying as cxim suggested. If anyone is really interested, I can look up more facts and figures. Now, I'd like to see cxim do a little research himself to support his own views. I am challenging him to back his own words up.

EDIT: cxim, if you swallow a rock and excrete it the next day, does that mean it was absorbed by your body? Your line of reasoning is so ridiculous as to need no answer.

 

[apoppin]

I do want to apologize to the forum members for losing my cool. Even to cxim for dropping to his low level of personal attacks.

I do feel I was provoked, being called by him:

Troll
stupid
wanker
fool
slow
dishonest
liar
and more.

Anyway, sorry guys. I'll try to keep my temper better under control in the future.

In conclusion, personal eating habits are - well - personal. I have done a lot of research and made what I believe to be an informed decision. And since embracing vegetarianism, I believe I am living better because of it.

You do what you feel is right for yourself. I am not attacking meat eaters in any way. Just defending my choice.

 

[Eli]

Finally I get to post. I tried to post this when I got home, at about 6pm Eastern, but as soon as I tried to post, the forums went boom.

[begin original post]
Oh my. I leave for work for a day, and look what happens. Where do I start?...
Okay. You can become addicted to anything. And I mean anything. If you try and stop eating Snickers, and you have cravings, you're addicted. If you try and stop eating mashed potatoes smothered in butter, but don't seem to be able to, you're addicted. If you try and stop smoking cigarettes, and you can't, you're addicted. If you try and stop eating meat, and you can't, your addicted. Any questions?

jhu- This thought that "this is that" is not true with everything.. We're not plants, we cannot assimilate dirt.

Sunner- Suffering from anorexia? Please.

Tiranee- You have some validity to your point. While not impossible, it would be exceedingly hard to survive long term in the wild on a vegan diet. I consider myself a survivalist, and realize that I would have to eat meat if I ever moved out into the woods. Mostly fish and small game. I have nothing wrong with eating small quantities of meat, from animals that I know are healthy, and not pumped full of artificial hormones. Meat does not give you the strength that plants don't. Infact, like I've said, some people believe that meat is not worth it's weight in energy. It takes an immense ammount of energy for your body to process. Someone has already pointed this out, in a diffrent way. The post with the digestion times.

cxim- Come on man, grow up. Quit calling people names. Seriously. It's getting old and boring. You act like you're 13.

Like I said, you don't want to be using normal soap, or peroxide I wouldnt think, for washing your fruit and vegetables. If you do, make sure to use nontoxic soap, because you're going to be eating some of it.

If osteorporosis isn't caused by a lack of calcium, then answer this: Why does my mom take an "osteoporosis formula" suppliment? "Nature's Life Vitamin/Mineral Complex Osteoporosis Formula For stronger bones". It contains Calcium Citrate and Malate, Magnesium, Vitamin C, Betaine HCI, Zing, Maganese, Boron, Vitamin K, Copper, Silicon, and Vitamin D. Don't flame me, answer my question. Also answer this, Why do the Milk advertisements purport milk to help make stronger teeth and bones? Hm?

Name one thing that we've said about the vegetarian lifestyle that is "crap". You obviously haven't ever given it a try, How do you know? You can't say I didn't feel better when I started eating less meat.

Come on, you're being an asshole, cxim. How is apoppin lying to people? It is a fact that most(as in 80%+) of the american population is suffering from malnutrition, and they don't even know it. Why do you think that is? Because they eat mostly meat, and not enough fruit and vegetables.

There are many peoples that don't eat meat. You don't see them dropping dead like flies from cancer, and other diseases that are caused by us.

If you don't start posting some sense, I'm not even going to reply to you anymore. It's obvious you're just out trolling.

Okay, cxim, you've now proven you know nothing. I quote:


<< if it is lost in the urine it was absorbed by the body &amp; then excreted. >>



Earth to cxim, you are clear for landing.. If you take something in, and it goes right through you, as in you urinate it out, your body has not absorbed it.

All you have to do is look at the health status of another country to see how absolutely aweful the american diet is. Japan, for example. They don't eat McDonalds every night.

[end original post]

 

[BoberFett]

Eli

If osteoporosis is in fact a lack of calcium, then why isn't your dad taking calcium supplements too? I'd assume he has a pretty similar diet to your mom. From what I've read, osteoporosis is largely attributable to changes in the female body at menopause.

 

[Eli]

Actually my dad's diet is nothing like my mom's.. LOL He's learning tho...

I'm not denying that.. but cxim says that it has nothing to do with the ammount of calcium in your diet. I'm saying he's wrong. They couldn't say &quot;for stronger bones&quot; right on the front of the bottle, if it weren't true, or without at least having an * next to it, which points to &quot;This statement has not yet been approved by the FDA.&quot;. It has nothing like that.

 

[Eli]

Bump, just because this thread is so much fun

 

[JellyBaby]

<< Anyway, sorry guys. I'll try to keep my temper better under control in the future. >>

Just for the record, apoppin, your posts I always read but the dweeb you were battling I always ignore. And you didn't really lose it.

 

[Gage]

I read a book once about lesbians and one lesbian gave her opinion on the kind of women who &quot;taste&quot; the best. This is how she ranked them:

1.vegetarians
2. meat eaters
3. smokers

I have no idea if this is true or not. Im not a lesbian and have never made that comparison. But for anyone interested in doing the research for us then feel free.

I just wanted to be part of the thread that's all.

 

[KidViciou$]

just rename this to .mp3 after you download it

also, dont mind the ending's cussing

Be Healthy

 

[LAUST]

Eat a garden burger.. I did and now I'm POSITIVE I don't want to be a vegetarian

 

[KidViciou$]

i was told boca burgers are good, by my sister who eats meat.

 

[cxim]

ok dweebs...

There have been numerous studies about Ca. For the vast majority of people, increasing dietary Ca makes no difference in their bones. A simple &amp; logical conclusion is that there is adequate Ca in the diet.

I never said that bones have nothing to do with Ca in the diet. I said osteoporosis is not caused by a lack of dietary Ca... &amp; osteoporosis is affected by a lack of Ca.. it is not caused by a lack of Ca.

Ca is excreted in the urine... know the definition of excrete ? look it up. it has be absorbed in the gut &amp; be in the blood to be excreted by the kidneys. That means the Ca was absorbed... It was not utilized !!! It does not matter where it came from, oyster shell, veggies, milk, etc... it is all the same, once it is in the blood.

This is one of the major problems with osteoporosis. It is not lack of Ca. You get Ca into the blood &amp; you still piss it out &amp; get kidney stones. It was absorbed !!!! it was not deposited in the bones.. even if it had been deposited in the bones there would have been no increase in strength.

Astronauts are a good example of what happens with bones &amp; Ca in normal people. their bones are normal. they go into space &amp; the bones lose Ca &amp; P. When they return to full gravity, the body rapidly remineralizes the bones. This does not happen when women with osteoporosis are given Ca.

There is no way to fully remineralize osteoporitc bones. Women are given Ca supplements to slow the loss of bone strength. It does not reverse the osteoporosis.

This is all standard straight up information about which there is no debate.

The standard treatment for osteoporosis is Ca &amp; vit D supplementation. It slows the bone mass loss in some women. It does not stop the bone mass loss. It is cheap &amp; has few side effects.

The addition of female hormones, estrogen &amp; progestins, at the time of menopause also slows the loss of bone mass. If started more than 5 yrs after menopause, the hormones have no effect. There are significant side effects at times &amp; some increased cancer risks (small) with hormone supplementation.

There are a few drugs, like calcitonin ( a hormone ) &amp; fosamax ( a phosphonate that blocks some bone resorption ) that are sometimes used. they are expensive &amp; have significant side effects as well. they also usually do not work for more than about 1 to 2 yrs.


Have you ever had any kind of science, health or physiology training ? I doubt it.

 

[cxim]

yes apoppin, if you swallow a rock &amp; excrete it the next day it was absorbed. If you swallow a rock &amp; pass it the next day in your stool is was not absorbed.

by definition, a substance has to be absorbed by the body before it can be excreted.

again apoppin, I have nothing aginst vegan diets, just aginst unsupportable claims.

If osteoporosis was a simple lack of dietary Ca, you would not see millions of dollars being poured into research for effective treatment and/or prevention.

 

[apoppin]

cxim, your responses and explanations are so ridiculous as to require no further refutation by me. It is obvious you post just to waste our time (and yours). I will certainly take the other forum members advise and ignore your posts. You have NOTHING whatsoever to back up ANY of your statements.

If anyone else wants to sensibly debate this, I am open and up for it.

 

[cxim]

ridiculous ?

right .... the standard first year medical texts are ridiculous ???

The hundreds of medical /scientific papers published in the past yr on the subject are ridiculous, but you know the right answers !!!

sure you do !!

millions of dollars are being spent by researchers trying to find a solution, but you know the answer !!!!

sure you do boy !

 

[Zucchini]

Cxim,

Its a hopeless fight, they won't listen to logic, or science. People too easily latch onto quasi science peddled by hucksters.

 

[Sunner]

<< Right, Zucchini, after becoming vegetarian they have the energy to exercise. >>



I didnt look through this entire thread, cause like Zuccini said, theres no point, its like trying to discuss religion with fanatics, they wont listen.

But this one remark caught my attention, cause its nothing but utter bull$hit.
I hardly eat any vegetables at all, I simply dont like most vegetables very much.
I do however go to the gym in the mornings before work, 2-3 times a week, and equally many time a week after work, as do some of my friends, and one of them are veggies.

I think thats one of the reasons why many people considder veggies being wierdos, its cause a few of you spread a whole lot of bull about how bad it is to not be a veggie, instead of just being veggies and shutting up about it.